Cause of Death - Charles and Braden Powell **Warning-Graphic Thread**

[karen7868]

Definitely rage; parents poison/OD their kids but hacking them to death?

The fact that the boys' COD was carbon monoxide poisoning and IF the lungs/throat/mouth were not seared, which would have shown they were still breathing, then they died first and he put accelerant to burn/destroy bodies. Something is off. IMHO

The social worker said she knocked on the door for 10 minutes before calling 911 and response time was 22 minutes to scene. This gave him at least 15 minutes to do whatever. Make calls? Send e-mails?

I know we should not believe everything on NG, but she had what I though was the ME and it was stated there was soot in the lungs, which means they were still breathing.

Does anyone know if fire/heat could have cauterized the arteries/vessels to keep them from bleeding out first?

 

[21merc7]

I surmise that the tweet means that police were looking at a video of a man pumping gas into gas cans to see if it was JP but then they determined it was not JP. That's my take anyway.

Ah okay, I went back to re-read. Was getting the first question confused with the tweets. Thank you.

 

[Spice]

The fact that the boys' COD was carbon monoxide poisoning and IF the lungs/throat/mouth were not seared, which would have shown they were still breathing, then they died first and he put accelerant to burn/destroy bodies. Something is off. IMHO

The social worker said she knocked on the door for 10 minutes before calling 911 and response time was 22 minutes to scene. This gave him at least 15 minutes to do whatever. Make calls? Send e-mails?

" Charlie...I have a surprise for You...." followed with striking them with a hatchet is total and complete sadistic rage in my opinion. He knew he was about to blow up the house and burn them and kill them! What was the purpose of the hatchet? This is straight up overkill. He was an absolute psychotic killer. He lured his poor little boys right to their death and then set about hacking them with a hatchet? Blowing them up in a fire would have been more humane.

I'm not sure about her knocking for ten minutes. ( but I could be wrong) She said that she was in shock. She was experiencing some cognitive dissonance for sure because she said that she thought he slammed the door by accident. She heard Braden cry out and thought of his sore little foot. She smelled gas and that snapped her into the reality of the situation and she knew they were grave danger. It was all happening so fast and was so abrupt that it wasn't registering for her, as it probably wouldn't for many of us in that kind of situation.

It was my understanding that much of the time wasted was with her having to PLEAD with an inept 911 operator. When a person says I am a SOCIAL WORKER on a SUPERVISED VISIT and the parent locked me out you send the police immediately. She even went further, mentioned the gas, said she was afraid for their lives, mentioned that it was Josh Powell, and said that he was refused custody earlier in the week. What else could this woman have said? That operator should have notified the police as soon as she got the first sentence out.

It is ridiculous to me that that operator hemmed and hawed and read from a script and could not think critically or see the obvious danger in that situation. Why wouldn't he have erred on the side of caution? Its unbelievable.

 

[HotLavaJavas]

Definitely rage; parents poison/OD their kids but hacking them to death?

The fact that the boys' COD was carbon monoxide poisoning and IF the lungs/throat/mouth were not seared, which would have shown they were still breathing, then they died first and he put accelerant to burn/destroy bodies. Something is off. IMHO

I don't think the kids were dead when the fire started, just unconscious. But, when the fire started, it happened fast, which produced a lot of carbon monoxide.

Whether or not they had any searing, I don't know. But as a matter of routine, I'm sure the ME performed additional testing during autopsy.

I'm not a doctor - just my 2 cents.

 

[strawberry]

Ah okay, I went back to re-read. Was getting the first question confused with the tweets. Thank you.

I thought the same thing when I first read it! I could be wrong but I think we would have seen coverage by now if one of the Powells were on tape buying gas.

 

[Concerned Papa]

NG said on her show, I believe it was the same night she showed pics of the house and floor plan, that JP had hung up pictures of Susan all over the living room walls they were killed in. Has anyone else heard this?

I was wondering how they could even tell since it was such a massive fire.

Also IIRC, she had a reporter on that said the boy's bodies had gasoline actually poured on their bodies before the fire.

I thought I would see it reported after the show but I still haven't seen anything.Any help appreciated.

I have a personal policy when it comes to HLN's reporting. If nobody else is reporting it, then they are speculating for the purpose of emotional response (and ratings). Local media sources always have an established rapport with their own LE, and may not always get the story right, but they will know everything that HLN knows if not more!

I heard that and I thought what he said was really disturbing. He said it and then NG asked him about it and he said it was an unconfirmed report. Then DON'T SAY IT, until it's confirmed! The grandparents had to hear that when it hadn't even been confirmed.

Sadly, my friends, this time Nancy Grace had it right.

From page 2 of the search warrant:

Investigators were able to determine that an accelerant was used inside the home. A subsequent examination of the victims by the Medical Examiner's Office found that sharp impact wounds were located on the back of the head of the two children, who were identified as Powell's children, Charlie and Braden. A hatchet was recovered near the bodies by PCSD investigators. Additionally, accelerant was apparently used on the bodies and two gas canisters were recovered.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/02/10/DocumentView.cfm.pdf

~~~~

 

[DLT88]

" Charlie...I have a surprise for You...." followed with striking them with a hatchet is total and complete sadistic rage in my opinion. He knew he was about to blow up the house and burn them and kill them! What was the purpose of the hatchet? This is straight up overkill. He was an absolute psychotic killer. He lured his poor little boys right to their death and then set about hacking them with a hatchet? Blowing them up in a fire would have been more humane.

.

Since we know now he killed pets -- I read by crushing his sister's hamsters -- that shows a depravity for enjoying causing suffering to a weaker being. It's SICK SICK SICK but I think this is the same sickness he brought up to do this to his two LITTLE boys. LITTLE boys. Yes it was overkill for two little boys.

But it's over now for them and I'll bet they saw their mother and said, "I had a bad dream". And she said, "I had the same one". But for those 10-15 minutes, I wish I could erase it from the world. It's unfathomable how anyone could be that purposely cruel.

 

[strawberry]

There were pics of Susan hung up all over the walls? Was that his "Big Surprise?"

 

[Spice]

There were pics of Susan hung up all over the walls? Was that his "Big Surprise?"

Are you serious? ?????? :what:

 

[strawberry]

Are you serious? ?????? :what:

A post upthread said there were pics of Susan all over the walls. I can just imagine him putting them there so he can blow her up too...perhaps he was angry that Charlie had his pic taken next to the big pic of Susan at the Powells and he put all those pics up. He says "I've got a big surprise" and while Charlie is looking at the pics he gets him in the back of the head. :maddening: That just made me ill to type but...

ETA: Actually it was a post that said that NG said that so take that for what it's worth but...

 

[strawberry]

Ben Winslow @BenWinslow
Cops say identity of gas buyer will be confirmed w/ return of search warrant at Fred Meyer store.

 

[strawberry]

Ah okay, I went back to re-read. Was getting the first question confused with the tweets. Thank you.

I thought the same thing when I first read it! I could be wrong but I think we would have seen coverage by now if one of the Powells were on tape buying gas.

Maybe I am mistaken:

Ben Winslow @BenWinslow
The timeline has unknowns: What was the $7,000 for? Who bought the gasoline, if it wasn't #JoshPowell

 

[Sassygerl]

I went to page 3 in the forum and started reading some locked threads. It's truly unbelievable HOW MANY posters predicted the murder/suicide. I sat there reading with chills. I had grown worried myself over time. He looked so haggard, defeated, done. And he was such an odd duck I couldn't believe the kids were allowed visitations.

 

[dovebar]

I bet the pictures of Susan were for DFS - just part of his snow job, like all charm psychopaths.

Hearing that the firefighters could immediately tell that the house wasn't so much lived in as "staged," I'm angry all over again at the state of WA for letting him get away with this. They were supposed to check the house and make sure things were in order, not some phony stage set. Why was he even allowed to be in court petitioning for custody when - if he won - he was going to take them back to his naked brother at SP's house?

 

[tomkat]

The 911 call revealed that the case worker said she heard the kids screaming. How horrible to know the facts soon after about what was happening! This man definitely wanted people to suffer from the kids death. Unbelievable!

 

[21merc7]

A post upthread said there were pics of Susan all over the walls. I can just imagine him putting them there so he can blow her up too...perhaps he was angry that Charlie had his pic taken next to the big pic of Susan at the Powells and he put all those pics up. He says "I've got a big surprise" and while Charlie is looking at the pics he gets him in the back of the head. :maddening: That just made me ill to type but...

ETA: Actually it was a post that said that NG said that so take that for what it's worth but...

I think he put the pictures up for the social worker to see and think what a good and loving home it was. All a facade.

 

[RoseTree]

My 7 year old knows how to unlock a door.

My two and four year old know how to unlock and open doors.

 

[brighidin]

My two and four year old know how to unlock and open doors.

Respectfully, I don't get why people are posting about their kids being able to lock or unlock doors. Unless they've done it just before or after seeing their father hit their sibling with a hatchet, then I really don't think it has any bearing on this case at all.

 

[hollyblue]

I think he put the pictures up for the social worker to see and think what a good and loving home it was. All a facade.

Yep, no way could he sleep in that house with all of the pics of Susan haunting him.

Does anyone think Josh finally, truly saw himself within days of this? Did he realize all the muck he was wading thru were choices he made?

I try to get into the perp's head, but can't with JP in these moments.....to take a hatchet to your own children's heads...and deliberately pour fuel on them...and light it. Can't go to those places. Too dark and pure madness. I keep thinking of the movie Bad Seed where the little girl locks the gardener in the barn/shed and then lights the excelsior on fire. (The gardener kept telling her he "knew" her...and how evil she was even tho no one else would believe it.) Poor Susan....was she the only one that really knew JP and still tried to help him through her love? IMO, that would have incensed JP more...especially with all the talking he had been doing with his father right before she went missing. What a twisted twosome those two were. One for the books. IMO

 

[dovebar]

I wondered how they could tell about the accelerant. By odd coincidence, there was a "48 hours" on tonight where a woman was killed by her boyfriend and then the house set on fire to cover up. Police were able to tell using dogs that she'd actually had accelerant poured on her. Apparently, there is such a thing as an accelerant-sniffing dog and they are extremely specific - can tell if there is a greater concentration in one portion of the body than another, for instance.