Deputies: Grandmother killed by dog while babysitting

[SpriteGal]

I think you are misinterpreting my definition of being provoked. Never did I say being provoked to attack was an excuse that's it's okay.

 

[jjenny]

My neighbor's very large dog one day all of the sudden bit my relative for no apparent reason. Now, maybe my relative looked at the dog the way the dog didn't like, but I don't think we are required to be dog mind readers.

 

[Jubes]

How awful for this family.

If you ever want calm and protective look into live stock guardians. : )

Yea just not an Australian Cattle dog ...OH sure she's laying nicely on the couch right NOW but .... no wait the sponge bob blanket has done something she MUST attack it ....oh it's ok now they made up.

Anyway what was I saying yea Australian Cattle dog .... calm my butt cheeks! Protective you betcha. My baby Dixie she is even moving in her sleep ALL.NIGHT.LONG and if we do not leave the bedroom window open so she can see outside then we MUST get up every 2 hours to let her out to patrol the yard, a task that takes at the very least 20 minutes and 30 warning barks. She wakes us up by sitting at the bedroom door barking.

Her favorite game is playing unbuild a bear! I have banned her from ever touching err I mean unbuilding any stuffed animal again EVER! Her second favorite game deflate the basketball/vollyball/soccer ball. Third favorite "Come a little closer to the fence I got something to show you"

Is she friendly haha NO! She would tear up anyone that came in the yard or house that she does not like or know and she does not LIKE anyone but the people that live in this house and perhaps a very select FEW that carry food/treats with them in the door.... I'm going to say about 4 people outside those of us that live here. DO I leave her alone inside the house with my kids FOR SURE she loves them and wouldn't let a thing happen to them. DO I leave her in the house when someone other than her selected outside friends come over... OH HELL NO!

The way to provoke my dog is to come to the door that's all and that is the reason I am very quick to put her out back before I answer the door to anyone unless like I said it's one of 4 people she likes and even then she's not overly impressed I allow them in the house. She is however a very loving cuddly dog that I wouldn't trade for anything, I just know her limits and I don,t push them.

Seriously owners must know their dogs limits and never try to push the dog past that limit.

 

[Linda7NJ]

We had a guy from Anderson windows come to the house. I had my Doberman at the time. Btw she was fine as long as I let the person in the house, car etc. that's the way she was trained. ( god help anyone entering without permission) so the guy is demonstrating on the window he brought .....the ease the window opens and closes, he's so excited. Im sitting on the sofa and hes standing about 7 feet infront of me. He lunges and I mean lunges toward me with the window in one hand while reaching toward me motioning for me to get up with the other. My dog leaped to her feet, jumped between us and growled at him so viciously that he jumped back falling to the floor screaming like a girl. Had he continued to move toward me, I have zero doubt he would have been viciously attacked....all I had to do to get her to stop was command her to.



My dog did exactly what she was trained to do! IMO he wasn't very dog smart!

 

[Nova]

You are reading it from a human view point though, from a dog view point the person/toddler did something to provoke the attack. It may seem out of the blue, but always on a deeper look it it's never an unprovoked attack. Humans and Dogs communicate differently. The toddler might have moved in a way or looked at the dog in away that was threatening. That's not unprovoked.

I think these arguments (not just yours, Sprite) miss the point that maybe dogs shouldn't be around people if the animals are so sensitive to triggers known only to them.

I realize cats are different, but I had a Siamese who only attacked "when provoked". But "provoked" in her mind might mean laughing, curling one's toes or rolling a pair of dice.

 

[Elley Mae]

Some stats and reports on dog bites

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php

http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dogbites/whatisadogbite/

 

[keeponsearching]

My doberman mix would bite, no breaking skin... Just out of the blue. So I brought her to the vet, and she said it could be too much protein the dog is eating, high energy dogs need less protein, which I thought was the opposite, also at this time my dog had a sore neck which could of been the reason. But then she bite again, and I believe it was because I changed her food..... I got her a lower protein but its cheaper food, which she is kinda snappy again. So my point is, if something is hurting the pup they very well can snap.

 

[Sonya610]

Unless you have some sort of vet or animal behavior degree, I'd say we are both about equally qualified to give opinions here.

I have known many many rescuers and dog show people that owned, bred, or fostered in hundreds and hundreds of dogs. I have heard many PERSONAL stories from knowledgeable people, I trust the first hand accounts of real dog knowledgeable people far more than "Internet stories with an agenda".

If people can't read (or don't try to read) signals then they may think a dog "just snapped". People are often just plain stupid when it comes to dogs.

In this case if the grandmother rarely babysit it is possible the 1 year old baby may have started getting very stressed, if the baby started crying frantically and sounded REALLY distressed the dog could easily have gotten concerned and agitated.

Baby crying in an unusually stressed/frantic way + Stranger is handling/doing things to frantic baby = Stranger is upsetting/harming baby. Just because people people do not UNDERSTAND the dog's logic or motivation does not mean they are crazy.

This video is another example, 7 million hits because people think "it is soooo cute! Dog and baby singing together!" If this dog ever suddenly bites this baby then the owners will surely say "Oh my god, the dog just snapped! He loved the baby so much and then one day he just went crazy!". In fact it is obvious that the dog doesn't like the baby but the parents can't see that, they only see what they want to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyk1HXvCNks

 

[Sonya610]

I think these arguments (not just yours, Sprite) miss the point that maybe dogs shouldn't be around people if the animals are so sensitive to triggers known only to them.

Or maybe people that choose to own dogs should do a little research and learn something about them, fact is like many other things dogs are "disposable" in this society which is why millions of healthy animals are slaughtered in "animal shelters" every year.

When one considers there are 50 million pet dogs in America, many of which are owned by stupid people that don't treat them very well I would say dogs as a whole are amazingly sane and tolerant. On average 17 people per year are killed due to canine aggression, compare that to 16,000 people a year killed by other humans. I would say those "dumb unpredictable animals" are a whole lot saner than the "evolved and oh so civilized humans".

 

[Kimberlyd125]

My nephew was nearly killed by a friend's chow. Totally unprovoked.
They were laying on the floor watching tv. My nephew barely nudged the sleeping chow and he went for my nephews neck.
The family swears the dog NEVER showed any aggression.
After my nephew was rushed to the ER my sister was told he was very lucky because of the position of the wounds. A different spot would have killed him before he made it to the ER.

I really don't care how many dogs someone has owned or fostered or how they research it.

SOME DOGS SNAP!

ETA: the dog was put down because he was capable of snapping.

Smart move IMO because it may have saved someone else's life.

 

[believe09]

My neighbor's very large dog one day all of the sudden bit my relative for no apparent reason. Now, maybe my relative looked at the dog the way the dog didn't like, but I don't think we are required to be dog mind readers.

But we are to some degree, just like it is important to read any animal or human to determine personal safety.

Any pet owner is obligated to read their pets and know them because the liability is all theirs.

I was mauled as a child, and bitten once by a family pet. In both situations, it was an indicator of me not getting something I was told. I was mauled when I was told to stay away from the dog who was at that moment unhappy. I ran over to pet him anyway... He grabbed me by my side and started shaking me like a toy. The second time, the lab who bit me had undiagnosed bone cancer and had gently growled at me...my own stubbornness caused me to pet him anyway and he bit me on the hand. Nothing tragic, I assure you.

I am still unafraid of dogs and have had many since. Once the pet who mauled me calmed down, I visited and played with him under strict supervision and it was no big deal. We were both sorry, lol.

 

[Sheromom]

Sometimes a dog thinks it "owns" a certain person or more than one person. There are dogs that will bite if someone gets close to "their" person. The grandmother could have reached out to touch one of the children that the dog felt it "owned" and it could have gone after her for that reason. Did the grandmother have bite wounds or just neck and spinal injuries? I was wondering if the dog had been biting her or if it just knocked her down and jumped on her causing the injuries. How old was the grandmother? An older person can be fragile and hurt by being knocked down and stomped on even without bites. I once had a fox terrier who would bite anyone who tried to touch me and my friend had a small dog that would bite anyone who tried to touch her. That is an example of the dog "owning" a person instead of the person being the pack leader in charge and the dog the follower.

Personally, I would kick a dog like that AND it's owner downstairs. Biting is NOT acceptable by any breed! I have a Lab and a Pap and both are protectors but if......large or small....they bite....they die!!!!

 

[Sheromom]

Only once did I see a dog -snap-aka Go red.
An abused German shepherd that we'd rescued. He did indeed snap one night and attacked me.
Could darn well of killed me if I hadn't been lucky enough to escape.
Yes, we put him down. Very hard and sad for us.
However, I nearly immediately went out and got a new German Shepherd. He is one of the greatest loves of my life.
I've owned shepherds since I was 5 years old. About 11 of them now. Never had a problem except this one poor dog.
Anyway, yes, he snapped. It's rare IMO, but it can happen.
I feel awful for this poor family.
Wish there was more info.


QUOTE=SpriteGal;8715801]I have to agree there is always a sign of a dog being distressed, or upset before an attack. They never just snap and attack, it's usually misinterpretation from the person who didn't read the signs that an attack was coming.

[/QUOTE]
I had a Shepherd in 5th grade. He came to my school at recess and to walk me home. But one day..... a kid just jokingly hit me at soccer ball and he attacked. No real damage but my folks got rid of him.......I have owned a Shepherd since...she trained my Lab....I feel safe with friends and very protected from strangers...

 

[Sheromom]

What I am trying to say is that dogs can snap and kill a human.
And giving excuses such as the dog doesn't just snap because maybe the human looked at it the wrong way doesn't fly.

So then....just get rid of dogs in general? Kids NEED dogs and they don't usually just snap but I would be careful of the breed I chose!

 

[Sheromom]

My neighbor's very large dog one day all of the sudden bit my relative for no apparent reason. Now, maybe my relative looked at the dog the way the dog didn't like, but I don't think we are required to be dog mind readers.

Hahahahaha!! So totally agree!

 

[Sheromom]

I have known many many rescuers and dog show people that owned, bred, or fostered in hundreds and hundreds of dogs. I have heard many PERSONAL stories from knowledgeable people, I trust the first hand accounts of real dog knowledgeable people far more than "Internet stories with an agenda".

If people can't read (or don't try to read) signals then they may think a dog "just snapped". People are often just plain stupid when it comes to dogs.

In this case if the grandmother rarely babysit it is possible the 1 year old baby may have started getting very stressed, if the baby started crying frantically and sounded REALLY distressed the dog could easily have gotten concerned and agitated.

Baby crying in an unusually stressed/frantic way + Stranger is handling/doing things to frantic baby = Stranger is upsetting/harming baby. Just because people people do not UNDERSTAND the dog's logic or motivation does not mean they are crazy.

This video is another example, 7 million hits because people think "it is soooo cute! Dog and baby singing together!" If this dog ever suddenly bites this baby then the owners will surely say "Oh my god, the dog just snapped! He loved the baby so much and then one day he just went crazy!". In fact it is obvious that the dog doesn't like the baby but the parents can't see that, they only see what they want to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyk1HXvCNks

Why own a dog you don't understand? If this is true......the son is responsible for his mother's death!

 

[Sonya610]

When we bring home a new foster dog, the male pit wears a muzzle for a couple of days and drags a leash. Then once he accepts the new dog he is totally safe with it (but I don't leave him alone with it). He's great with all of my dogs and cats. You have to know your dog and use common sense.

Anyone that has done rescue for any length of time (and worse dealt with potential adopters) knows that 98% of canine "problems" are the result of stupid/ignorant owners that don't know enough about dogs OR get breeds they have no idea how to handle.

It is especially bad with the protective breeds, screening potential homes and seeing what some of these poor rescue dogs have gone through makes many rescuers VERY cynical indeed.

The ignorance and stupidity displayed by many dog owners makes me always lean towards "human error" whenever I read about "crazy dog suddenly attacks without warning" stories. It is ALWAYS the dogs fault, right? Never the humans.

I have a Lab and a Pap and both are protectors but if......large or small....they bite....they die!!!!

I hope you stick with Labs and Papillons because some of the protective breeds absolutely WILL bite if the need arises, they were bred to "protect/defend" and not just "bluff".

 

[tlcya]

Dobermans were my breed for many years, showed them, did rescue, etc... Guess I am getting old, I wanted a calmer dog with less prey drive, switched to an Anatolian. Totally different canine mindset, had to research as this dog was so very different, but awesome once this dumb human got edumacated about how their mind works.

If you ever want calm and protective look into live stock guardians. : )

Agreed. Our Great Pyrenees is s shedding, slobbering behemoth but the best protective, calm natured companion.

This story is very sad. Many things could have caused this tragedy. Gramma may have not been a frequent sitter who was familiar to the dog. The dog may have "snapped" for unknown reason. (ETA I agree as well that ignorant people often don't bother to become adept at reading animal behaviors) The gramma's actions could have been misinterpreted as threatening to one of the children.

No matter the cause, very sad story. Prayers to the family.

 

[Angelonline]

Wow hearing all of these 'dog snapped at the slightest movement' stories is making me afraid of dogs. Im a realtor, dogs generally like me and I have never been bitten. But I have one agent who is terrified of dogs and won't get out of the car if there are dogs. Now I'm thinking she might be smarter than me, because I generally get out and only get back in if they appear unfriendly in some manner.

 

[OneLove]

My nephew was nearly killed by a friend's chow. Totally unprovoked.
They were laying on the floor watching tv. My nephew barely nudged the sleeping chow and he went for my nephews neck.
The family swears the dog NEVER showed any aggression.
After my nephew was rushed to the ER my sister was told he was very lucky because of the position of the wounds. A different spot would have killed him before he made it to the ER.

I really don't care how many dogs someone has owned or fostered or how they research it.

SOME DOGS SNAP!

ETA: the dog was put down because he was capable of snapping.

Smart move IMO because it may have saved someone else's life.

We had a chow that lived to be 13 years old, the sweetest dog I've ever known, loyal, affectionate, cuddly, and smart as any dog I've ever known. It broke our hearts when he died recently.

That said, IMO, it is criminally neglectful and abusive, not to mention just flat out stupid, for dog owners to blatantly ignore the fact that dogs, PARTICULARLY certain breeds, can and do attack. Chows are among them.

All the arguments over whether the dog had "ever been aggressive before" or not mean NOTHING. It is KNOWN that some breeds are more predisposed to seemingly unprovoked attacks. My chow never bit, ever, and yet I never once left him unattended in a child's presence because I knew he was more "likely" to than, say, a golden retriever.

This knowledge is understood and verified enough for many municipalities in the US and some entire countries to either ban these breeds altogether or to require registration and certain restraints. They don't do this because they "just don't understand the dogs", they do this because some dog OWNERS just don't understand the FACTS or choose to blatantly ignore them.

Any time I hear anyone say "dog was never aggressive before", it just burns me and saddens me for the poor victims. Even human murderers never murdered before, right up until they do. EVERY dog of certain breeds is capable of unexpected attack, history or not. Whether that was provoked "in the eyes of the dog" or not is immaterial. It can and does happen.

It's sad that laws must be instituted to protect the common good because people are not willing to do that simply as a matter of internal ethic.