Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

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About to watch today's episode but still digesting yesterday's. Honestly, I think JBR died at the hands of PR. Then PR staged it. I think BR did not receive the love/affection he should have as a child, which is why he is bizarre. I think JR was an out of touch dad, who buried himself in work and who didn't really know what was going on in that house. I think PR was obsessed with showing off her home, her daughter. I imagine she was a person who was constantly acting, instead of just being, if that makes sense. Now watch all that change when I watch the next interview.
 
As I stated on the other thread on which we were discussing the interview it seems like, in my opinion, that BR has no emotions when it comes to JBR. Just matter if fact she is dead. Like after the comment of drawing the family picture without her..."you have to move on". That blew me away. The third day of the interview will be very interesting
 
I do find him rather creepy. Why the big huge smile when asked if he killed his baby sister? He smiled through out the entire conversation. A big fat cheshire grin smile. He is not a 9 yr old anymore. I'd think he had some sadness surrounding it now. He knows he is on TV and he smiles a big smile when asked about a little girls brutal murder? :no:

I watched him smile that creepy smile and stifle a laugh when telling the psychologist he heard his mother acting psycho downstairs.



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I've watched the snippets from yesterday so far. He is definitely very odd, but I don't see his smile or nervous fingers pointing to guilt, although he could be. A lot of people smile inappropriately when they are nervous. I know I sometimes do. It seems bizarre for him to smile during a serious interview, but for him, being socially awkward, it is probably normal.

What I see is a child with issues, a distant father, a sick and vain mother, whose favored sister was murdered and whose life turned upside down...and he's become an odd and rather vulnerable adult. He might have turned out this way anyway even if JonBenet had lived.

I can't understand why he would agree to this interview though. Did his father ask him to do it? Did DP pursue him relentlessly? He doesn't seem strong enough to stand up to pressure. Perhaps he hopes it will humanize him. But for some it demonizes him. And we will probably never know if he did or didn't have a hand in his sister's death.
JMO
 
Watching this now...

re 911 call - Burke "Unless someone erased my memory..." He did not go downstairs...

:thinking:
Perhaps Dr Phil should have brought up the possibility of regressed memories?

*The truth is out there*
 
BR sure has a lack of curiosity. Never even read the ransom note, didn't ask how JB died, never checked out any JB websites. Really?

I think a normal child would be curious and ask why their sister had died. In order to grieve I think you would need to know why your love one died. You guys have probably discussed this at length but do you think Burke was jealous of the attention JonBenet got? I'm new to the key details of the case I knew of it of course but not in depth.
 
Today Burke claims that he has never read the ransom note. He is 29-years-old.

If you didn't know who killed your sister, wouldn't you have been compelled to read the note sometime in the last 20 years? Especially given that it is chock-full of weird clues?

Of course you would. Because if no one in your household was responsible, it seems quite obvious that the perpetrator was someone known to the family (well enough to know who they were, about John's business, and how to navigate that maze of a house). You'd be compelled to read that note and try to figure out who it was that knew your family and could have written it.

Burke doesn't show any desire to find out who did this and get justice for his sister. Because he knows.
 
Anyone know why my posts are posting without words? I just updated Tapatalk, hoping that worked.

*The truth is out there*
 
I just watched, fast-forwarding through commercials. I believe Burke. I don't find his affect "creepy" at all. He's shy, he's never been asked about this stuff before, and DP is interrogating him. How the heck would he remember if he ate pineapple on Dec 25 twenty years ago? Seriously?

I was 10 when my grandfather died. I knew something was very wrong and a bad thing had happened, but was given no details. We were sent to stay with someone while my parents went to deal with the very serious bad thing. When they returned, they told us he was dead. I have no idea what the words were. But I laughed and so did my sister. I wasn't happy. It was just uncomfortable. And I have just about zero memory of anything else, except that I played a little prank on my mother that night because the opportunity presented itself. I obviously did not "get" that it was not the time to do that. My sister and I still remember our reaction of laughing when they announced his death. (I still feel kind of bad about it.). But I wasn't the least bit happy, nor did I think it was funny. But what I remember is laughing and playing a prank, not being devastated and sad. I was a kid.

It does sound like the bigger trauma to Burke at the time was his mother's emotional state. He was sent to "go comfort her"? Wow, that's quite a burden to put on a child.

Burke didn't lose a child. He lost a sibling at the age of 9. You can't expect a 9 year old child to respond to a death the way an adult does, especially a parent who loses a child, IMO, the greatest loss a parent can suffer.

I'm just really shocked by the slurs about Burke and lack of empathy toward him.

I believe that he believes the things he's saying. Whether they're true or not is another question. I don't expect very valid recall of his 9 year old memories 20 years later. And who knows whether he has been fed memories by others. I feel sorry for him. I wish he hadn't done this interview. The public can be really mean spirited.

And I give the opinion of Lilian Glass all of :twocents: I don't respect her at all.

BBM

You are absolutely correct on all counts. I have lost both a sibling (when I was a child) and a son (and struggled with helping my other children through the trauma, both of whom happen to have varying degrees of aspergers). There is absolutely ZERO comparison between how an adult processes a loss and how a child processes a loss.

My older brother died when I was six. I remember being extremely concerned about my sister and parents (far more than my brother). And i remember playing with my cousins at the funeral home and being very excited because everyone was bringing me presents. What my brother's death meant and its impact was something I was far too young to be able to process. Children process death as they grow and develop intellectually and emotionally, and looking back it's a very strange process... to mourn years later for someone you barely remember. And it messes you up in so many ways... your view of the world, your feelings of safety and security are forever different from your peers. And that difference shows, and separates you. (Part of that, I'm sure, is that I had no therapy of any kind after).

As an adult, when I think about my brother, I feel some sadness for the relationship we might have had, but I wouldn't call it grief really, not as an adult would think of it. Hard to explain and put into words. By the time I understood his death and what I lost, he had been gone so long I didn't miss him. There's a distance there, the relationship we had is too far away, it's just a distant and vague memory. I certainly would not speak of him in the same way as I would as someone I lost as an adult.

And I'm sorry, but no one can understand the way a child thinks about the loss of a sibling unless they have experienced it. The trauma impacts you physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is overwhelming and it changes you. When my son died, I was able to talk to my kids very specifically about what they were feeling and thinking. And my husband said he had no idea that they were thinking what I *knew* they were thinking. And my kids are extremely concerned about my husband and I, and each other. Both are in both trauma and grief therapy, and, especially with the aspergers, they have a very hard time speaking about it. It will be many years before they recover, and even with the counselling the trauma has changed them forever.

So BR... he's forever damaged and traumatized, just from her death. Add that she was murdered into that, another layer of security stripped away. And to have his parents accused... more security stripped from him. It's so important for children to feel safe in the world, and he has probably never had a single moment since that night where he truly felt safe. And he likely never will. The world will never feel safe for him.

His memories are likely vague, (due to both his age at the time as well as the result of the emotional trauma). And due to the circumstances I'm sure he's heard the story of that night many, many times. What he really remembers versus what he "remembers" because he's heard it over and over, there's no way to tell, and I have no doubt it's all mixed up in his mind.

I'm not at all surprised that he doesn't show any grief about his sister at this point, 20 years later. (When I tell people I had a brother who died, and they say "I'm sorry", I think "why? I was a kid and it was a million years ago", and I know I don't show grief when I thank them for the thought)

And I'm not surprised he seems to have been more concerned about his mother than his sister... IMO, having experienced it and watched my children go through it, that's completely normal. She was in front of him crying, JBR wasn't. And he was too young to understand and process the loss in the same way an adult would.

Children think very concretely, and for kids with aspergers that's especially true. If he is on the spectrum, his lack of socially acceptable expression and his "distance" would simply add on to and amplify what a "neuro-typical" person would express. IMO

I've never been a BDI, because I don't see anything abnormal about his reactions as a child going through that. I do think RDI, but I don't see Burke involved at all.

All IMO, MOO, ETC.

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I'm changing my mind every 15 minutes during these shows. I'm still of the RDI, but how/who/why is changing. I never thought this before, but now think that BR was also sexually abused, along with JBR. And there is something 'off' with him, whether it be aspergers or 'something', the comment about bedwetting when JB was 6 and he was 9, it sounded to me like he still did it. BIG RED FLAG there to me. I do believe there was an 'accident' and then a coverup. By whom, TBD.

The bed wetting at that age does seem to indicate something is strange. I grew up with cousins, a brother and sister with similar family dynamic (money, a distant father, social butterfly mother, favored girl) and a bedwetting boy, continuing at least until 9 or older. I don't think there was sexual abuse, but how would I know? No one was murdered, but boy cousin floundered as he grew up while girl cousin flourished. Boy cousin became schizophrenic in his twenties. Even without mental illness, he was very odd. I think that's why I understand Burke's mannerisms somewhat.

I agree there was an accident and coverup.
 
As I stated on the other thread on which we were discussing the interview it seems like, in my opinion, that BR has no emotions when it comes to JBR. Just matter if fact she is dead. Like after the comment of drawing the family picture without her..."you have to move on". That blew me away. The third day of the interview will be very interesting

To me it seemed like he was describing a movie, not something he experienced. Like a 3rd hand account or something. It was weird.


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I also feel that Burke intentionally played dumb throughout the interview thus far. The ransom note comment is one example. The pineapple is just another example. When asked by Dr Phil if he and JBR ate pineapple together that night he says "maybe" and acts shocked that anyone expects him to remember a snack from twenty years ago. This wasn't a random snack on a random day. People expect you to remember it because it was a traumatic night, therefore the memories are much more likely to be seared into your permanent memory. He seems to remember a lot of other details about that night but claims 'maybe, i can't remember' about the pineapple. It seems implausible because you would remember the last time you saw your sister. You would either remember yes, eating pineapple together that night was the last time we saw each other, or no... I remember the last time I saw her was in the car coming home from the party so we definitely did not eat pineapple together later.

Additionally, Burke was able to be interviewed not too awfully long after JBR's death (when police went and got him from a relative's) and there's no way I don't think they asked him about the pineapple. Patsy claimed to be baffled about the pineapple in the DA interview footage shown on DP, and John said on DP that he didn't serve the pineapple... so wouldn't John & Patsy have asked Burke about it as well, wanting to know whether it was Burke or JBR/intruder who had it out?

I feel strongly that with the timing of the pineapple being eaten right before JBR's death and with police and potentially Patsy/John questioning Burke about the pineapple afterwards, he would remember either a firm yes or no about the pineapple. The fact that he said maybe means it's a yes, IMO.
 
To me it seemed like he was describing a movie, not something he experienced. Like a 3rd hand account or something. It was weird.


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It's interesting that you described it in that way, like he was describing a movie. That is exactly what my trauma therapist worked with me on, seeing the events surrounding my son's death as a movie, to get some emotional distance and minimize the PTSD symptoms. No idea what therapy he has or hasn't had, but I thought your observation very interesting and thought I'd throw that out there.

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I have to miss part 3 and I'm not pleased about it!


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I mentioned this on another thread, but I've read that sometimes when a person suffers trauma, they do not mentally develop beyond that point. When I watched the interview, I felt like I was watching a 9 year old in a man's body. His gestures, smiling, and simple, odd sentence structure and word choice. He doesn't seem mature at all. Perhaps he is on the spectrum, or has not mentally aged since December 1996.
 
Thank you for your insights, Wyle_E_Coyote. Experience trumps theories about how people should react. Much appreciated.

BBM

You are absolutely correct on all counts. I have lost both a sibling (when I was a child) and a son (and struggled with helping my other children through the trauma, both of whom happen to have varying degrees of aspergers). There is absolutely ZERO comparison between how an adult processes a loss and how a child processes a loss.

My older brother died when I was six. I remember being extremely concerned about my sister and parents (far more than my brother). And i remember playing with my cousins at the funeral home and being very excited because everyone was bringing me presents. What my brother's death meant and its impact was something I was far too young to be able to process. Children process death as they grow and develop intellectually and emotionally, and looking back it's a very strange process... to mourn years later for someone you barely remember. And it messes you up in so many ways... your view of the world, your feelings of safety and security are forever different from your peers. And that difference shows, and separates you. (Part of that, I'm sure, is that I had no therapy of any kind after).

As an adult, when I think about my brother, I feel some sadness for the relationship we might have had, but I wouldn't call it grief really, not as an adult would think of it. Hard to explain and put into words. By the time I understood his death and what I lost, he had been gone so long I didn't miss him. There's a distance there, the relationship we had is too far away, it's just a distant and vague memory. I certainly would not speak of him in the same way as I would as someone I lost as an adult.

And I'm sorry, but no one can understand the way a child thinks about the loss of a sibling unless they have experienced it. The trauma impacts you physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is overwhelming and it changes you. When my son died, I was able to talk to my kids very specifically about what they were feeling and thinking. And my husband said he had no idea that they were thinking what I *knew* they were thinking. And my kids are extremely concerned about my husband and I, and each other. Both are in both trauma and grief therapy, and, especially with the aspergers, they have a very hard time speaking about it. It will be many years before they recover, and even with the counselling the trauma has changed them forever.

So BR... he's forever damaged and traumatized, just from her death. Add that she was murdered into that, another layer of security stripped away. And to have his parents accused... more security stripped from him. It's so important for children to feel safe in the world, and he has probably never had a single moment since that night where he truly felt safe. And he likely never will. The world will never feel safe for him.

His memories are likely vague, (due to both his age at the time as well as the result of the emotional trauma). And due to the circumstances I'm sure he's heard the story of that night many, many times. What he really remembers versus what he "remembers" because he's heard it over and over, there's no way to tell, and I have no doubt it's all mixed up in his mind.

I'm not at all surprised that he doesn't show any grief about his sister at this point, 20 years later. (When I tell people I had a brother who died, and they say "I'm sorry", I think "why? I was a kid and it was a million years ago", and I know I don't show grief when I thank them for the thought)

And I'm not surprised he seems to have been more concerned about his mother than his sister... IMO, having experienced it and watched my children go through it, that's completely normal. She was in front of him crying, JBR wasn't. And he was too young to understand and process the loss in the same way an adult would.

Children think very concretely, and for kids with aspergers that's especially true. If he is on the spectrum, his lack of socially acceptable expression and his "distance" would simply add on to and amplify what a "neuro-typical" person would express. IMO

I've never been a BDI, because I don't see anything abnormal about his reactions as a child going through that. I do think RDI, but I don't see Burke involved at all.

All IMO, MOO, ETC.

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I mentioned this on another thread, but I've read that sometimes when a person suffers trauma, they do not mentally develop beyond that point. When I watched the interview, I felt like I was watching a 9 year old in a man's body. His gestures, smiling, and simple, odd sentence structure and word choice. He doesn't seem mature at all. Perhaps he is on the spectrum, or has not mentally aged since December 1996.
Jmo, having experienced trauma as a child and an adult, but imo it's not so much that you don't develop mentally after, but that it actually changes your brain and, emotionally, your view of the world is forever changed. It's like breaking your leg. It heals, but the bone will forever show the damage. I dunno... its so difficult to put into words, so hard to explain.

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Thank you for your insights, Wyle_E_Coyote. Experience trumps theories about how people should react. Much appreciated.
Thank you, I'm glad the book I wrote helped shed some light. And to clarify, people certainly will display different reactions (my husband and I were completely opposite in many of our reactions after our son died). But I think people really don't realize how much trauma is involved and what that trauma does to a person.

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