Malaysia airlines 370 with 239 people on board, 8 March 2014 #25

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Since a satellite was communicating with MH370 at 8am ...
then logic tells me that the plane could not have crashed earlier.


The search report says ….

“In order to connect to the SATCOM system, the aircraft transmits a logon request on the R Channel which is acknowledged by the ground station.

Once connected, if the ground station has not heard from the aircraft within an hour, it will check that the connection is still operational by transmitting a logon interrogation message on the P Channel using the aircraft’s unique identifier. If the aircraft receives its unique identifier, it returns a short message on the R Channel that is still logged on to the network. These processes have been described as handshakes”

(Pg 17 of the report … http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5243942/AE-2014-054_MH370_SearchAreasReport.pdf)


And this is why I believe that the satellite was handshaking specifically with MH370, and there were no errors in that information.

The first handshake (3mins 20secs after the last radar reading) was initiated by the plane. Indicative of a logon request following an electrical re-boot, they say.

I think someone on that plane could have been trying to get the electrical system going again, or get it fully functional again .. trying to get them to safety .. with the effects of hypoxia well and truly settling in.
 
Now that the amount of fuel MH370 took on board is known, was it enough to have flown the course they are sure of, and also get farther south than the area Bluefin was searching?
 
I have to admit, at one point I did some research to see if mangosteen juice on lithium batteries could cause an issue. (Yes, yes … I know … both would have been packaged correctly to avoid cross-contamination … but I had to be able to eliminate that possibility :blushing: )

What I found was …. nothing! :floorlaugh:

My opinions only, no facts here:

I studied this issue fairly early on. I am impressed that you considered it. I wonder how many flights in aviation history have had tons of mangosteens stored near a significant cargo of lithium batteries?

Mangosteen juice is rich in antioxidants. See- http://www.cancer.org/treatment/tre...ogicalandbiologicaltreatment/mangosteen-juice for example. The term "antioxidant" can be misleading, because it has been widely applied by vendors selling 'natural treatments'. Just because a fruit or vegetable is labeled by vendors as an "antioxidant" does not mean that it would react (and produce heat) with an oxidant compound. Mangosteens are unusually rich in xanthones. I gather from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22327405 that mangosteens might contain deprotonated xanthones (depending upon the stage of their ripeness and acidity in my opinion). This theoretical situation also requires that the lithium batteries contain or produce OH (hydroxide). To hypothesize further whether the mangosteens on MH-370 could react with the lithium batteries in an exergonic (heat-producing) reaction, I would have to know exactly what the brand or brands of lithium batteries on-board the plane were and whether they were stored free or within devices. To make a long story short- the possibility of a reaction between the mangosteens and lithium batteries should not be 'blown off' without further scientific analysis. It is "fair game" at this point in time. Not as obvious as catastrophic structural failure, on-board bomb, or a missile-strike, but almost equally damaging, in theory.

Regarding other immediately-recent posts on this great thread, I have previously discussed the buoyancy of mangosteens and their relevancy to the disappearance of MH-370. Snipping from one of my earlier posts on this thread:

[[Also, I have gone back to the basics and studied the original "sheen" in the Gulf of Thailand that was found shortly after the disappearance of MH 370. This "sheen" looks like a light-brown discoloration on the ocean, possibly with a faint pink tinge. It might be possible to produce this surface discoloration with dilution of a red compound. Here are two (of many) theoretical sources of a red compound:
1) Mangosteen rinds contain cyanidin-3-sophoroside and (minor) cyanidin-3-glucoside. These are red pigments.
2) The burning of lithium can produce red colors.
There have been a handful of questions regarding whether mangosteens float. From my research, 4 out of 5 fruits might barely float for a short while, but I suspect you would have to be at the crash site within hours to see any of them."]]

Sleuth On!
 
Now that the amount of fuel MH370 took on board is known, was it enough to have flown the course they are sure of, and also get farther south than the area Bluefin was searching?

In short ... YES ... because the same amount of fuel previously stated is
ONE of the calculations used by both ATSB & the outside group of scientists
to determine their estimatations for the final resting spot of MH370.
 
Handshakes and hell in hand baskets. There are so many errors which could come into play while they are still grasping at straws. I am certain the professionals do believe their data is the end all/be all. However time after time, we see them fail to turn up anything concrete to back up their handshakes etc. Their best technology appears to be unable to produce any results.
 
To hypothesize further whether the mangosteens on MH-370 could react with the lithium batteries in an exergonic (heat-producing) reaction, I would have to know exactly what the brand or brands of lithium batteries on-board the plane were and whether they were stored free or within devices.

Here again is the link to an article saying that the brand of batteries was Motorola ...

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/5509...-motorola-preliminary-report.htm#.U3lQcPmSweg

MH370: Motorola Owns 200kg Lithium Ion Batteries, Source Claims

The manifest showed NNR Global transported consolidated items - 133 pieces of one item weighing 1.99 tonnes, 67 pieces of another item weighing 463 kg, for a total weight of 2.453 tonnes.

... About two tonnes, equivalent to 2,453 kg of cargo was declared as consolidated under one master airway bill. This master AWB actually comprised five house AWB. Of these five AWB, two contained lithium ion batteries amounting to a total tonnage volume of 221 kg. The balance three house AWB, amounting to 2,232 kg, were declared as radio accessories & chargers,

... A source from MAS said that the batteries weighed less than 200 kg but they were instructed not to reveal the remaining components of the 2.253 tonnes of cargo.

... it was Motorola that shipped the cargo from its factory in Penang to the KL International Airport on March 6.

According to the report, the manifest indicated lithium ion batteries but did not mention radio accessories & chargers.

The air waybill from NNR Global Logistics Sdn Bhd revealed that it shipped on behalf of its client, Motorola. In detail two loads were packed - 1,990 kg with 133 pieces & 463 kg for 67 pieces.

... However, he cautioned that companies were notorious of shipping "hidden dangerous goods" which could include flammable liquids, lubricants, corrosive & oxidizing materials.

Some people may suspect that the most likely scenario is that these lithium batteries were travelling with the 20 Freescale employees who were passengers on MH370 ... & the reason for that is a historical one ...

In 1948 the Motorola company started a division in Phoenex, Arizona.

In 1955 that division developed the world’s first commercial high-power transistor for car radios. It was also Motorola’s first mass-produced semiconductor device.

In the 1960s this Motorola division was heavily involved with the NASA space program & supplied thousands of semiconductor devices, tracking & communications units. A transponder received & transmitted voice & television signals & scientific data for the Appllo command module.

Motorola’s technologies were used to introduce the first two-way mobile radio with a fully transistorized power supply & receiver for cars.

In 1969 Motorola provided the tools behind the radio transponder that delivered the first words from the Moon.

In 1973 Motorola went on to develop the first prototype of the first analog mobile phone.

On 6 Oct 2003 Motorola announced that their semiconductor division would be divested to create Freescale.

On 16 July 2004 Freescale completed its IPO.

source: Freescale Semiconductor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because of this historically close association between Motorola & Freescale there would be no reason for Freescale to initiate a business relationship with any other battery company ... so I assume that Motorla continues to be the source for all of Freescale's battery needs.

In more recent years Motorola & Freescale have encountered some financial difficulties. But a recent ABI Research market study report states that Freescale owns a 60% share of the radio frequency (RF) semiconductor device market.

Perhaps it is Freescale & Motorola that refuse to allow the Malaysian authorities to release the cargo info ??? Probably out of fear that the info would damage the reputation of both of these large corporate businesses.

From what I have read, it appears to me that Freescale has the unique knowledge & resources to remote control a large jetliner & guide it through 4 dimensions. However, I see no reason that Freescale would choose to eliminate 20 of their highly trained employees, as it would be a counter productive maneuver.

Alternatively such a clandestine operation could be carried out by an espionage unit or highly trained Air Force. But of course, like so many MH370 theories, this last part is just unsubstantiated speculation.
 
Handshakes and hell in hand baskets. There are so many errors which could come into play while they are still grasping at straws. I am certain the professionals do believe their data is the end all/be all. However time after time, we see them fail to turn up anything concrete to back up their handshakes etc. Their best technology appears to be unable to produce any results.


Personally, I think that without those 7 handshakes and 2 SATCOM calls forming a trail into Aussie SAR waters there would be no search anymore.

Who else is going to bother to try to find MH370? Malaysia?

Most everyone else has withdrawn from the search. Most countries have expended all the resources that they are willing to provide. They have looked in the Bay of Bengal. They have looked in the South China Sea. I feel pretty confident that satellites will have done a quiet search for wreckage/MH370 along the Northern Arc, just to be sure.

Do we just ignore the handshakes and hope that someone is willing to search somewhere else? Where?
 
Now that the amount of fuel MH370 took on board is known, was it enough to have flown the course they are sure of, and also get farther south than the area Bluefin was searching?

The yellow dotted line in this pic is the range limit of the fuel on board if the plane flew in a straight line, which it appears to have done once it started in a southerly direction.

ra3rl3.jpg


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26503141
 
Personally, I think that without those 7 handshakes and 2 SATCOM calls forming a trail into Aussie SAR waters there would be no search anymore.

Who else is going to bother to try to find MH370? Malaysia?

Most everyone else has withdrawn from the search. Most countries have expended all the resources that they are willing to provide. They have looked in the Bay of Bengal. They have looked in the South China Sea. I feel pretty confident that satellites will have done a quiet search for wreckage/MH370 along the Northern Arc, just to be sure.

Do we just ignore the handshakes and hope that someone is willing to search somewhere else? Where?

Do we have anyone that helped with Tomnod still following the post? If so; how do we find out if the current assumed resting place has been looked at on Tomnod? I have the official map finder link; but there are 409 pages.
 
TY ElleElle. From EE link above

A report by Australian air crash investigators has disclosed that the missing Boeing 777 suffered a mysterious power outage during the early stages of its flight, which experts believe could be part of an attempt to avoid radar detection.
 
http://www.businessinsider.com/mh37...ge-during-the-early-part-of-its-flight-2014-6

"It does appear there was a power failure on those two occasions," Chris McLaughlin, from Inmarsat, told The Telegraph. "It is another little mystery. We cannot explain it. We don't know why. We just know it did it."

The Australian report released by Australian authorities has revealed that the Boeing 777 attempted to log on to Inmarsat satellites at 2.25am, three minutes after it was detected by Malaysian military radar.
 
http://www.businessinsider.com/mh37...ge-during-the-early-part-of-its-flight-2014-6

The report also notes that the plane's in-flight entertainment system delivered a satellite message 90 seconds after the first power failure but not after the second failure hours later. This, it says, "could indicate a complete loss of generated electrical power shortly after the seventh handshake".

=----------------

This is found on page 22 of the Report LOG ON REQUESTS
http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releas..._Definition_of_Sea_Floor_Wide_Area_Search.pdf

1st and 7th handshakes

The 1825 and 0019 SATCOM handshakes were log-on requests initiated by the aircraft.
A log-on request in the middle of a flight is not common and can occur for only a few reasons.
These include a power interruption to the aircraft satellite data unit (SDU), a software failure, loss of
critical systems providing input to the SDU or a loss of the link due to aircraft attitude.
An analysis was performed which determined that the characteristics and timing of the logon requests were
best matched as resulting from power interruption to the SDU.

Approximately 90 seconds after the 1825 log-on request, communications from the IFE (In Flight
Entertainment) system on the aircraft were recorded in the SATCOM log. Similar messages would
be expected after the 00:19 logon request, however none were received. This could indicate a
complete loss of generated electrical power shortly after the 7th handshake.

Because the location of the 0019 arc is also consistent with estimates of the aircraft range
calculated from the remaining fuel quantity provided by the last ACARS transmission, the 7th arc is
the focus of the search area.

Using the satellite system information, specifically the location rings determined from the BTO and
the current understanding of the cause of the 7th handshake (log-on request) as being related to
the fuel exhaustion of the aircraft, the focus of the search area will be along the 00:19 arc. The
distance from the arc will be discussed in the section on the search area width.
 
TY ElleElle. From EE link above

A report by Australian air crash investigators has disclosed that the missing Boeing 777 suffered a mysterious power outage during the early stages of its flight, which experts believe could be part of an attempt to avoid radar detection.


That statement in the article is IMO misleading..it is 2 fold

It starts off with what the Report revealed and then finished the sentence with what an expert that the newspaper spoke with believes may have happened.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mh37...ge-during-the-early-part-of-its-flight-2014-6

According to the report, the plane's satellite data unit made an unexpected "log-on" request to a satellite less than 90 minutes into its flight from the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur, to the Chinese city of Beijing. The reports says the log-on request - known as a "handshake" - appears likely to have been caused by an interruption of electrical power on board the plane.


:twocents:
 
I am posting a link to the MH370 Report- DEFINITION OF UNDERWATER SEARCH AREAS


http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releas..._Definition_of_Sea_Floor_Wide_Area_Search.pdf


In the Report in BOLD TYPE it clearly states that the assumptions were made for the purpose of helping in the search for MH370


From Page 35 of the report


Note: This suggestion is made for the sole purpose of assisting to define a search area.

The determination of the actual factors involved in the loss of MH370 are the responsibility of the accident investigation authority and not the SSWG.
 

Oh those darn MSM headlines...

The ATSB Report does not say the plane tried to skirt Indonesian radar using the mysterious mid-air power outage as the Headline in this article states.

This is what the Report says on Page 22
http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releas..._Definition_of_Sea_Floor_Wide_Area_Search.pdf

The 1825 and 0019 SATCOM handshakes were log-on requests initiated by the aircraft.
A log-on request in the middle of a flight is not common and can occur for only a few reasons.
These include a power interruption to the aircraft satellite data unit (SDU), a software failure, loss of critical systems providing input to the SDU or a loss of the link due to aircraft attitude.
An analysis was performed which determined that the characteristics and timing of the log-on requests were best matched as resulting from power interruption to the SDU.

--------------------------

THOUGH, IMO, it does seem that MH370 avoided flying over the Indonesian Island of Sumatra and/or Indonesian airspace on its final flight southward
 
TY ElleElle. From EE link above

A report by Australian air crash investigators has disclosed that the missing Boeing 777 suffered a mysterious power outage during the early stages of its flight, which experts believe could be part of an attempt to avoid radar detection.

Thanks Trigger! I have a hard time copying/pasting on my tablet and it is not easy to quote. :seeya:
 
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