Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #21

[SMK]

@BLNadeauBarbie Latza Nadeau
At very int'll dinner with journos frm italy, US, UK & #amandaknox verdict consensus is could go either way.

 

[Madeleine74]

Truly I will be surprised if they let them out anytime in the next 10 yrs. Appeals are generally harder and they are at every disadvantage since this case has been so sensational.

 

[SMK]

Truly I will be surprised if they let them out anytime in the next 10 yrs. Appeals are generally harder and they are at every disadvantage since this case has been so sensational.

Yes, I have been annoyed by those supporting them who have been saying for the past 2 months, "Acquittal is a sure thing." This is not a sure thing at all, and Amanda must be terrified.

 

[emyr]

Thank you all for the warm welcome. The arguments for innoscence seem pretty cut adn dry, guilt is a little harder to wade though because it appears the forensic evidence is useless to me.... I'm tying to concentrate on the timeline to make sence on things. So here are some questions and thoughts I have:

Did MK have mushrooms in her digestive tract?
Seems like the forensics regarding the footprints, knife, dna show innocence as there was no MK dna on knife blade or proven blood, no MK dna in the bloody footprints, and the knife didn't even seem to be the murder weapon (no match for the print on the pillowcase). Soooo, AK and RS said they were home all night..... That seems to be untrue per computer records, phone calls, and eyewitnesses. I'm left with "why lie"?? Am I missing something? So if the store owner saw AK at 7:30 am the morning MK was found dead perhaps she could have cleaned up, but could she get rid of all DNA? Ditto on the wet mop bucket at RS house, could they have gotten it all up? Also, MK door was locked, I read the window had large shards of glass left in it, how did they all get out that window without leaving DNA or breaking the glass, was there a lot found outside? Whose fingerprints were found on MK phone from which the call was made for an account balance? I'm also foggy on the phone call made from MK to her mother, the time in Italy it was made and the relevence!!

Anyone out there that can clear any of this up??

This is what we know for sure:

Halloween night, Meredith and Amanda celebrated separetely. They texted each other friendly chats. Amanda slept at Sollecito's that night, then went to the cottage to shower the next morning. Sollecito came there with her. Meredith was asleep in her room that morning. Sollecito and Amanda ate breakfast in the cottage together.

Meredith came out, picked up her laundry, talked with the two of them.

Meredith went and ate with her friends. She had pizza and apple crumble at about 6pm and then watched a movie. Her friends SAID she did not eat after that. They said she did not consume alcohol.

Amanda was supposed to work that night. Her boss texted her not to come in, and she told him see you later and turned off her phone at a little past 8 pm.

Sollecito was supposed to bring a suitcase to the train station for someone late that night. That person dropped by at 8:40 pm to tell him he didn't need to help her. He turned his phone off after that. The suitcase girl said Amanda and he were at his place at 8:40 pm and Amanda was laughing.

Shortly after 9 pm, the movie Amelie stopped on Raffaelle's computer.

Shortly before 9pm, Meredith was seen for the last time, walking to the cottage alone.

If Meredith's friends memory of her dinner is accurate, Meredith likely died before 10pm. There was food still lodged in her esophagus, but no one knows for sure what it was because it wasn't analyzed. If Meredith snacked through the movie, then she could've died as late as 1 am.

At 9 pm, Meredith terminated a phone call to her mother, who was sick, before it connected.

At 10pm, Meredith's phone attempted to make a phone call to her bank. It was near or in the cottage at this time.

Shortly after midnight, Meredith's phone was in the garden, indicating she had been murdered by this time.

Sollecito made a playlist on his computer at around 6am.

At around 11 to noon the next day, Amanda called Filomena several times, explaning she had discovered a break in in the cottage.

Sollecito called his sister for advice on what to do, and then called the police.

The police showed up minutes later, because they were already on their way to the flat, having discovered Meredith's phones in the garden.

Amanda said Meredith usually locked her door, Filomena said that wasn't true.

The police broke down the door and found Meredith dead. (Around 1pm?)

 

[Rolfe]

If Meredith's friends memory of her dinner is accurate, Meredith likely died before 10pm. There was food still lodged in her esophagus, but no one knows for sure what it was because it wasn't analyzed. If Meredith snacked through the movie, then she could've died as late as 1 am.

No, you've not got this bit right.

It doesn't matter at all whether Meredith ate anything during the film, if she started and ate the bulk of the meal between six and 6.30, which is what was said. It's the start time of the meal that dictates the crucial timing, and the finish time is irrelevant.

First, the piece of mushroom in the oesophagus seems to be a red herring. She probably nibbled it raw from the fridge when she got in, and it was regurgitated into the oesophagus during the attack. That's not relevant to time of death at all though.

The crucial point as regards time of death is that ALL her last meal was still in the stomach. All of it. NONE had passed into the duodenum.

Food will normally start passing into the duodenum from about two hours after a meal was begun, and pretty much always by three hours. Someone at the first trial suggested four hours was an outside maximum, but three hours to all intents and purposes. No food had yet done so when Meredith was killed. It's not so much about the full stomach you see, it's about the empty duodenum.

You can see, then, that she was already close to the normal upper limit for the start of duodenal passage by the time we know she arrived home. So close that I suspect she might not have started to tuck into that pizza till closer to 6.30. But that state of affairs couldn't have pertained for much longer. Food would inevitably have started to move on pretty soon after she got in. No matter how much she'd snacked through the film, that would have been bound to have happened.

You are possibly thinking about the time it could take for the stomach to empty completely. Of course that would take a lot longer, and if she had gone on snacking, or indeed if she had arrived home and had another meal, her stomach could still have contained food many hours later. But the important time here is the time for the stomach to begin to empty, and that time was virtually there by nine o'clock. And yet it hadn't happened when she was killed.

Add to that, she hadn't taken off her outdoor clothes. She hadn't turned on the heating, and it wasn't very warm weather. She hadn't taken her laundry out of the washing machine. She didn't try again to call her sick mother, although she hadn't yet called that day and the aborted call just before nine shows it was in her mind. She didn't, apparently, look at the textbook she had borrowed, which she was going to return the following day.

And Rudy Guede, in his self-serving account of what happened in that cottage, said that she screamed loudly at about 9.20.

At 10pm, Meredith's phone attempted to make a phone call to her bank. It was near or in the cottage at this time.

Near. Not in. The tower it connected to was one which covered the cottage, but it was not one which phones in the cottage routinely connected to, because there were others which gave better coverage there. That phone was already out of the cottage by that time.

Her bank was "Abbey". First on the list of numbers. (It's Santander now, but not then.) The aborted call was probably caused by Rudy trying to cancel an incoming text and turn the phone off to shut it up. He probably discarded the phones soon after that, realising that getting way from the murder scene was more important than petty theft.

 

[Allusonz]

Thanks Rolfe!!! It is truly critical that nothing had passed to the duodenum prior to her death.

As for the phone call Rolfe is correct again as per the phone records. This call was at 22:13

22:13:19 10:13 PM MK, UK phone, Nov 1 < GPRS, TEXT MESSAGE 9 G 30064 Strada Vicinale Ponte Rio Monte la Guardia
Park S. Angelo near garden

 

[Rolfe]

But Massei decided Meredith was lying on her bed all that time, not reading, not phoning her mother, not studying, just lying there playing with her phone and making a call or calls that didn't connect.

In a cold house with no heating on, maybe that's why she hadn't taken off her outdoor things, do you think?

That's all she did for the last two hours and more of her life, before her friends showed up to rape and kill her.

Who was is who mentioned fairy-stories?

 

[Allusonz]

Only problem is, there was just as little at the first trial. But with the independent experts, and Hellman at the helm, let us hope that yes, acquittal is pending...

Not quite true. There will be less this time around especially if you consider the C & V report. If this report had of been lukewarm I would be less optimistic and more cautious but it was not it was critical and at points bordered on accusing Stephanoni of things such as subjective analysis

 

[SMK]

The way this is worded gets one nervous:

Kerchers await appeals verdict against Amanda Knox

PERUGIA -- Meredith Kercher would have been 25. The British student would have finished her degree at Leeds University and perhaps been preparing for another Halloween, a day she loved.

Instead, her family awaits an appeals verdict expected Monday against former roommate Amanda Knox, of Seattle, who was convicted along with her Italian ex-boyfriend of murdering Kercher in 2007.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/national_world&id=8374777

 

[Allusonz]

I simply must state something here.

I can understand being cautious when dealing with any jury and how we feel they will see things. I also understand that the Italian judicial system is different. I understand that there are as well cultural differences.

It is my belief that the prosecution did not prove this case thus my opinion they are not guilty. Was I disappointed in the ruling of the trial of the first instance yes. Was I surprised no. Will I be disappointed if they do not correct what I consider to be a wrong yes. Am I emotionally invested no. We will simply move on to the next stage.

I believe though that we also must understand that not all Italians feel the way the prosecution does. While it is argued that there is a rush for aquittal I feel in some there is also a rush not to give this judge and jury some credit.

When the verdict is announced we will all progress from that point till then I will continue to base my opinion on a lack of evidence

 

[Footwarrior]

Meredith's arrival home was captured by the car park security camera across the street from the cottage. The timestamp was 8:51, but the camera clock is known to be 10 to 12 minutes slow. Thus her arrival at the cottage was a few minutes after 9 pm.

The last access to Amalie on Raffaele's computer was at 9:10 pm. Raffaele's appeal points out that the video file Naruto was opened at 9:26 pm. The last access to this file was on Nov. 6, after Raffaele was in custody.

The screensaver log shows only short periods of inactivity during the night.

 

[SMK]

I simply must state something here.

I can understand being cautious when dealing with any jury and how we feel they will see things. I also understand that the Italian judicial system is different. I understand that there are as well cultural differences.

It is my belief that the prosecution did not prove this case thus my opinion they are not guilty. Was I disappointed in the ruling of the trial of the first instance yes. Was I surprised no. Will I be disappointed if they do not correct what I consider to be a wrong yes. Am I emotionally invested no. We will simply move on to the next stage.

I believe though that we also must understand that not all Italians feel the way the prosecution does. While it is argued that there is a rush for aquittal I feel in some there is also a rush not to give this judge and jury some credit.

When the verdict is announced we will all progress from that point till then I will continue to base my opinion on a lack of evidence

:tears::tears:

 

[SMK]

&#8220;Million Dollar Campaign&#8221; To Try To Influence The Jury Is Being Widely Reported To A Startled Italy

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

It looks like a perfect storm is flaring up in Italy for the hapless Knox PR campaign. Just about every media outlet in Italy seems to be running a variation of this report.

Next Monday will see delivered the verdict against the girl in prison since 2007 on charges of murder of her British roommate Meredith Kercher. The decision was confirmed today by a judge of the court in Perugia.

Meanwhile there transpires shocking news: The Amanda Knox clan has spent a million dollars to change her image and influence the jury. This is one of the allegations made by the prosecutor during the summations of the appeal of Amanda Knox.

&#8220;Have you ever seen a defendant who takes on a large public relations firm?&#8221; asked the prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, which the people on the benches behind the lawyers deny. &#8220;Behind her was a communication campaign for a million dollars.&#8221;

The much touted executive jet waiting at the airport to whisk her home gets considerable mention in a very negative way, as does the fact that a freed Knox stands to make many millions.

 

[Rolfe]

It's a blog. Nobody cares. I think most people can see through Mignini by now.

 

[SMK]

It's a blog. Nobody cares. I think most people can see through Mignini by now.

:great:

 

[wasnt_me]

So if she decides to go home once she is cleared of the charges, she's "fleeing"? Are the jury that gullible?

If I were on the jury, that statement would insult me. If I find her innocent, she is not fleeing, so I wouldn't appreciate that comment.

 

[wasnt_me]

Adding this quote, too: from Telegraph piece cited above:

Yeah, if i were on the jury, and if i were hellmann, I wouldnot like that comment one bit. "if YOU absolve her, WE won't be able to..."

How about "If we absolve her, then YOU need to stand the heck down?"

 

[wasnt_me]

Truly I will be surprised if they let them out anytime in the next 10 yrs. Appeals are generally harder and they are at every disadvantage since this case has been so sensational.

In Italy? We have cited several times here that they have about a 40% turnover in appeals. So if that's the case, it doesn't seem that hard to win an appeal there. You got just about a 50/50 chance.

 

[wasnt_me]

But Massei decided Meredith was lying on her bed all that time, not reading, not phoning her mother, not studying, just lying there playing with her phone and making a call or calls that didn't connect.

In a cold house with no heating on, maybe that's why she hadn't taken off her outdoor things, do you think?

That's all she did for the last two hours and more of her life, before her friends showed up to rape and kill her.

Who was is who mentioned fairy-stories?

The only other explanation is MK did NOT go straight home, but stopped off somewhere to do something else for two hours, regardless of what she told her friends. About as realistic as RG's story....

 

[Monzoo]

Interesting article in Time about the differences between US, UK, and Italian mdia coverage.

I find the different perceptions people have about this case quite interesting.