Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #21

[Sonata]

Interesting article in Time about the differences between US, UK, and Italian mdia coverage.

I find the different perceptions people have about this case quite interesting.

Thanks! Very interesting. Particularly this bit about Patrick:

"Lumumba took a high five-figure sum for a London tabloid interview, parts of which were picked up elsewhere and became part of the narrative of the case. In that account, Knox was described as jealous of Kercher; Lumumba said his own wife had decided that Knox was untrustworthy based on one interaction with her; the accused also was said to flirt with customers at the bar; Lumumba also suggested that he might have been ready to fire Knox and put Kercher in her job. However, when Lumumba talked with me for my book — for free — he retracted nearly every word of it."

 

[iluvmua]

I have now changed my mind....... it was Halloween, Amanda would more than likely be with her boyfriend..... Why would they go back to her place if they wanted to be alone when they could go back to his place where they would be insured privacy.

 

[SMK]

Hundreds of Reporters Descend on Italian Town


Today, there are 412 journalists accredited with the Perugia tribunal, many from American, British and Italian news outlets -- the nations that have followed the case most closely. But representatives of Dutch, French and German media are also present.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/1...own-to-cover-amanda-knox-trial/#ixzz1ZXcKpRJy

Perugia Waits

http://blogs.news.sky.com/eurovision/Post:fcc4daf3-2851-4bcd-937a-fe0f00b0b897

 

[emyr]

No, you've not got this bit right.

It doesn't matter at all whether Meredith ate anything during the film, if she started and ate the bulk of the meal between six and 6.30, which is what was said. It's the start time of the meal that dictates the crucial timing, and the finish time is irrelevant.
(respectfully snipped)
Near. Not in. The tower it connected to was one which covered the cottage, but it was not one which phones in the cottage routinely connected to, because there were others which gave better coverage there. That phone was already out of the cottage by that time.

Her bank was "Abbey". First on the list of numbers. (It's Santander now, but not then.) The aborted call was probably caused by Rudy trying to cancel an incoming text and turn the phone off to shut it up. He probably discarded the phones soon after that, realising that getting way from the murder scene was more important than petty theft.

No one knows what was in her esophagus. She could have had a bite of apple crumble on her way out. All that is known for sure is it was a small amount of food that was not analyzed. The defense used it to state an earlier TOD.

I just re-read the Massei report. The four friends remembered that they got home at about 4 pm and started preparing pizza. They each have different memories of the next events: they ate the pizza from 6-7pm. They ate the apple crumble during the movie (or maybe before).

The scientists at court disagreed on times, but combining their testimony, TOD occurred 2 to 4 hours after the last meal. The only undigested food was the fragment in the lower esophagus. If the food was undigested from that meal, you have more accuracy towards a shorter TOD from the last meal. What I don't like in the Massei report is that they take the prosecution scientist testimony and states how that could make TOD as late as midnight. I think you can't push it beyond 11pm, because even with the variability of eyewtiness testimony, I think she had to have eaten the majority of the pizza by 7pm. So, I personally think that the science of stomach contents prove a 100% likelihood between 9 and 11pm, and a 95% likelihood between 9 and 10pm.

As for the cellphone, the fact remains that the cell phone tower did cover the cottage. On some occassions it did pick up phone calls from the cottage. So you just can't use it as proof that the phone wasn't there. I personally think it was on the move at that time, but you can't prove it definitively. The fact that a weak tower picked it up and there was evidence of strange activity at the same time (misdialing) suggests it, but doesn't prove it.

EDITED TO ADD: But thanks for correcting the cell phone info. I should've just said at around 10pm someone pushed the number one key on her phone, so it auto-dialed her bank. And that at the time the cell phone was covered by a cell phone tower that weakly covered the cottage, but strongly covered the area on the way to the garden. Good catch.

 

[Nova]

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

Allusonz is right that we should withhold judgment.

But I find it hard not to be cynical about a judicial system that allows Mignini to comment on how the defendant's parents spend their money.

(FWIW, I doubt the "million dollar" figure is accurate. I'm sure that is as exaggerated as everything else Mignini says.)

Rolfe says people are on to Mignini by now and that's probably true. But by the time the "million dollars" gets repeated in every Italian media outlet, it may be difficult for the jurors (sorry, "judges") not to consider tainted everything the defense says.

 

[SMK]

The 20/20 special is quite good. Nice clip of Frank Sfarzo talking and walking with Vargas

.http://abc.go.com/watch/2020/SH559026/VD55145930/2020-930-amanda-knox-appeal

 

[Monzoo]

Allusonz is right that we should withhold judgment.

But I find it hard not to be cynical about a judicial system that allows Mignini to comment on how the defendant's parents spend their money.

(FWIW, I doubt the "million dollar" figure is accurate. I'm sure that is as exaggerated as everything else Mignini says.)

Rolfe says people are on to Mignini by now and that's probably true. But by the time the "million dollars" gets repeated in every Italian media outlet, it may be difficult for the jurors (sorry, "judges") not to consider tainted everything the defense says.

There is a lot about the reporting on this case that is maddening. The "million dollar PR campaign" is one example of rumor reported over and over again until it seems like a fact -- another more recent example is the reporting of a private jet standing by waiting to take AK back to the US.

Near as I can tell, this started as a rumor in the Italian press, was reported as a rumor in the UK and US press, was mentioned by the prosecutor during their rebuttals, and is now reported again by everyone.

I've only seen one instance of a reporter questioning this fact -- and that was a tweet from Matthew Chance from CNN reporting that AK's friend, Madison Paxton, told him that it wasn't true. However, I've still seen it reported in various permutations all over the globe.

 

[sherlockh]

No one knows what was in her esophagus. She could have had a bite of apple crumble on her way out. All that is known for sure is it was a small amount of food that was not analyzed. The defense used it to state an earlier TOD.

I just re-read the Massei report. The four friends remembered that they got home at about 4 pm and started preparing pizza. They each have different memories of the next events: they ate the pizza from 6-7pm. They ate the apple crumble during the movie (or maybe before).

The scientists at court disagreed on times, but combining their testimony, TOD occurred 2 to 4 hours after the last meal. The only undigested food was the fragment in the lower esophagus. If the food was undigested from that meal, you have more accuracy towards a shorter TOD from the last meal. What I don't like in the Massei report is that they take the prosecution scientist testimony and states how that could make TOD as late as midnight. I think you can't push it beyond 11pm, because even with the variability of eyewtiness testimony, I think she had to have eaten the majority of the pizza by 7pm. So, I personally think that the science of stomach contents prove a 100% likelihood between 9 and 11pm, and a 95% likelihood between 9 and 10pm.

As for the cellphone, the fact remains that the cell phone tower did cover the cottage. On some occassions it did pick up phone calls from the cottage. So you just can't use it as proof that the phone wasn't there. I personally think it was on the move at that time, but you can't prove it definitively. The fact that a weak tower picked it up and there was evidence of strange activity at the same time (misdialing) suggests it, but doesn't prove it.

EDITED TO ADD: But thanks for correcting the cell phone info. I should've just said at around 10pm someone pushed the number one key on her phone, so it auto-dialed her bank. And that at the time the cell phone was covered by a cell phone tower that weakly covered the cottage, but strongly covered the area on the way to the garden. Good catch.

Read the Micheli reports for example. He said the bank call was picked up by a tower that picked up her other calls home as well.

However, I do expect Hellmann to set TOD to around 22:30. Even the prosecutor hinted that the phones were in the hands of the attackers by 22:00 (start of the attack IMO), and family lawyer Perna also made it clear that TOD was not sure. Combine this with Rudy's trials that state that he left around 22:30 then TOD must have been around 22:30 and not 23:30 like Massei said.

I also don't believe Massei was right about AK and RS arriving at 23:00. That is much too late. AK arrived at 9pm and RS little later. So I expect some changes in the timeline from Hellmann.

On the luminol prints it seems we were both right. AK's defense admitting the prints were AK's but made in soap. RS's defense claiming RG made all male prints after he lost his shoe (and sock?) in the struggle. In other words, the male prints were in blood. So we got both soap and blood prints there

On the bra clasp, it now seems the defense gave up on the contamination fantasies and claims it was planted by the coppers. Good luck with that one.

So what is left of the defense strategies? Not a whole lot.

 

[Sonata]

I also don't believe Massei was right about AK and RS arriving at 23:00. That is much too late. AK arrived at 9pm and RS little later. So I expect some changes in the timeline from Hellmann.

Isn't that a little tight with her being seen in Raf's flat at 8.40? Or do you think she immediately left his flat knife in hand?

 

[Sonata]

Sherlockh - I am sorry if you've stated this recently, but what is your theory of the events of that night? Do you view it as a premeditated attack or a prank gone wrong or what?

I'm interested that you say AK arrived first and RS a little later - what makes you say that?

 

[sherlockh]

Isn't that a little tight with her being seen in Raf's flat at 8.40? Or do you think she immediately left his flat knife in hand?

She left when the polish girl came by to cancel her appointment with Raffaele. IMO she was seen on CCTV but that never made it into evidence unfortunately. According to Rudy, they were fighting from the start but that is anybody's guess.

 

[SMK]

This comment about Maundy Gregory piece of Oct. 1 from PMF, and an excerpt from the piece below. A perspective so diametrically opposed to my own reason and logic, it boggles the mind. Let's just hope the Italian judges do not share this point of view:

"So, as Gregory concludes, for the Defense it all comes down to hoping that the judges decide to toss out logic and evidence in favor of the Gogerty-Marriott / Bruce Fisher narrative."

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=420&start=3000

Knox/Sollecito: There’s not much left to say

Call me naive, but I think the one place that the facts of the case will be clearly heard above all the din and chatter is in the deliberations of the appeal judges and juror-judges. They don’t really need reminding to ignore the cobblers that has been written about the case in a foreign language. So who are the lawyers talking to? They surely can’t have been, in their vanity, addressing their words to the 400 or more journalists currently squeezed into the courthouse? This case has always been weird.

On the other hand, perhaps I am indeed naive. Perhaps the case will be decided according to the opinions of ill-informed hacks and nonsense on the internet such as you are currently reading. I can’t believe it is likely, but it may be the last ray of hope for Jessica and Roger.

http://maundygregory.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/knoxsollecito/

The worst of it for me is, I am usually one to hold opinions and beliefs which run counter to the ABC, NBC, Today Show type of din and chatter. Normally, I would be the one voicing this type of philosophy he closes with. Yet all I have read has convinced me that an injustice did indeed occur re the convictions. sigh....

 

[Sonata]

She left when the polish girl came by to cancel her appointment with Raffaele. IMO she was seen on CCTV but that never made it into evidence unfortunately. According to Rudy, they were fighting from the start but that is anybody's guess.

On CCTV? Really, where? I don't think I've seen that. Only the supposed MK and RG footage.

 

[Sonata]

Sorry - the phone call from Dr Sollecito was at 8.40 - can anyone remember when the friend came over?

 

[sherlockh]

On CCTV? Really, where? I don't think I've seen that. Only the supposed MK and RG footage.

MK wasn't wearing any white clothing. AK was. But it never made it into evidence so no point to make a big discussion about this. There was also a dark car seen at the gate. RS had a dark car. Combine this with the computer activity after 9pm which gives me the impression he came a bit later by car to pickup AK and her stuff. AK confessed she came by herself to the cottage at around 9pm. She claimed she bumped into Patrick which I believe was in fact Rudy. That is how I get that they all arrived separately. JMO.

 

[Sonata]

Ah correction - it was both the call and the visit from the friend.

 

[Sonata]

MK wasn't wearing any white clothing. AK was. But it never made it into evidence so no point to make a big discussion about this. There was also a dark car seen at the gate. RS had a dark car. Combine this with the computer activity after 9pm which gives me the impression he came a bit later by car to pickup AK and her stuff. AK confessed she came by herself to the cottage at around 9pm. She claimed she bumped into Patrick which I believe was in fact Rudy. That is how I get that they all arrived separately. JMO.

But the time given on that CCTV footage is 8.40 which is when AK was seen by the friend at RS's place...

 

[sherlockh]

But the time given on that CCTV footage is 8.40 which is when AK was seen by the friend at RS's place...

The CCTV clock was 10 minutes slow.

 

[SMK]

MK wasn't wearing any white clothing. AK was. But it never made it into evidence so no point to make a big discussion about this. There was also a dark car seen at the gate. RS had a dark car. Combine this with the computer activity after 9pm which gives me the impression he came a bit later by car to pickup AK and her stuff. AK confessed she came by herself to the cottage at around 9pm. She claimed she bumped into Patrick which I believe was in fact Rudy. That is how I get that they all arrived separately. JMO.

Why do you think she said PL instead of Rudy? What do you think occurred when the 3 arrived separately? :waitasec:

 

[SMK]

The CCTV clock was 10 minutes slow.

Is this slow clock the same one which proved that Sollecito did in fact call 112 before, and not after, the arrival of the postal police??