GUILTY Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #23

[suzihawk]

Speaking of Joran's roomie... if the following is true, it seems he ratted him out. (Rat pun intended.)


Joran Van Der Sloot Prison Break Foiled By El Payaso

The Enquirer says Joran van der Sloot, the 22 year-old Dutchman incarcerated in Lima's Miguel Castro Castro Prison for murdering 22 year-old Peruvian Stefany Flores, tried to get transferred to a hospital by giving himself a ruptured hernia through dehydration.

But his cellmate,infamous Colombian hitman Hugo "El Payaso" Trujillo, was wise to him and, allegedly, tipped off guards who, instead, brought an orderly to his cell to treat him.

According to The Enquirer, Joran hoped to escape from the hospital by posing as an orderly and flee to Cuba where, he figured, they'd be sympathetic and not turn him over to The States or Peru.

http://guanabee.com/2010/08/joran-van-der-sloot-prison-escape-foiled-el-payaso/

 

[Kamille]

Well the original source of that story appears to be The Enquirer and they haven't seemed to have any "exclusives" on this case so I will be taking that story with a large amount of salt.

Although maybe Cuba is the only place on earth where he could go and hide. Well at least the only place that has nice beaches and resort casinos anyway.

MOO

 

[LookingUp]

From the description on my Comcast guide:

"New, A profile of murder suspect Joran van der Sloot includes an interview with his mother, Anita van der Sloot. (2010), (Documentary)."

Tonight at 10pm, E! channel.

Mine, too. Can't watch it tonight but am DVRing it.

 

[suzihawk]

Well the original source of that story appears to be The Enquirer and they haven't seemed to have any "exclusives" on this case so I will be taking that story with a large amount of salt.

Although maybe Cuba is the only place on earth where he could go and hide. Well at least the only place that has nice beaches and resort casinos anyway.

MOO

I dunno... the Enquirer has gotten a lot of things right lately, too. Things that the main stream media wouldn't touch. I'm not saying this is true, but I wouldn't summarily dismiss them, either.

 

[FLNY]

Well, that E! channel news report tonight should have been labelled an 'OLD news' report.

All they did was have Chris Cuomo narrate old clips previously broadcast by ABC. The only new bits were portions of the original Dutch TV interview with Anita that were translated into English. But, overall, there was no 'news' here!

Can't say that I'm too disappointed, since I had already figured this was all that it would be.

 

[suzihawk]

Yep... just a recap. It was put together pretty well - although I don't care that much for Chris Cuomo.

It was interesting to see/hear more of Anita's self serving interview and easy to see where he learned that he's not accountable for his actions. Both she and Melody make sure to point out how he was unmercifully hounded in the aftermath of Natalee's 'disappearance' and how much he changed after that, indicating that's the reason he did what he did in Peru. I don't know how she can put herself in the same category of being a 'victim' as the families of the girls he killed as she claims she's lost her child, too. No, she hasn't. He's not dead - yet.

Also, I haven't heard that particular soundbite from Tacopina before where he indicated that JVS decided that he's always going to be perceived as a someone who got away with murder and that's why he cashed in on it. I'm curious as to exactly when he said that - whether that's an old soundbite or new (since rumors of his being involved in his defense).


Now we need some real news. NEW news.

 

[Lola]

Is this the NE or a latin American version called the Enquirer. Either way, it's some story! LOL

 

[marikesh]

There was one difference in words that Anita spoke. She now claims that she was set to send Joran to Nl for addiction counseling, and that's not what she said in the Dutch interview where she said she was prepared for Joran to leave for Nl to a Psychiatric hospital.
Did Cuomo slip something in this time that had been editted out before?

 

[suzihawk]

There was one difference in words that Anita spoke. She now claims that she was set to send Joran to Nl for addiction counseling, and that's not what she said in the Dutch interview where she said she was prepared for Joran to leave for Nl to a Psychiatric hospital.
Did Cuomo slip something in this time that had been editted out before?

I noticed that as well, marikesh. I'd not heard the word 'addiction' associated with sending him for counseling in the Netherlands until last night. It also seems like the supposed note he left for her when he left for Peru gets longer and more elaborate with each telling. She said that she was 'more than mad' and 'more than angry' when he left for Peru and avoided going for treatment. However, I've seen the screen shots of her FB myself where both she and Julia Renfroe are cheerily wishing him the best vacation ever right after he left. So, once again, she didn't seem to be distraught over his departure at all, IMO.

 

[i.b.nora]

It seems to me that the Dutch language interview and the English language interview were given at the same time and conducted by the same company, the Dutch Telegraaf news.
Anita speaks good English, in my opinion. Better than some English speaking only people I know. So, I did notice in that bit that was shown last night where she said in English that she had set up or arranged for him to get counseling in the Netherlands for his gambling addiction.
Since I don't understand or speak Dutch, I have had to rely on Google translations, or Babelfish translations, or whatever sub-titles might appear on videos, or sometimes the kindness of strangers who will translate small portions into English. Or, translations from Dutch into Spanish into English.

So, I am not willing to believe that she purposely changed her story, depending on what language she was speaking.

I am sympathetic to Anita in her current state of being. And, I believed what she had to say in the snippets of her interview shown in that E! thing. So, there you go. I would not want to change places with her for any amount of money.

By, the way, I think Comcast owns E! and they just bought all that footage from ABC and probably had it compiled by some outside vendor type production house and made it into a little show that they can sell advertising for.

 

[hollyblue]

It seems to me that the Dutch language interview and the English language interview were given at the same time and conducted by the same company, the Dutch Telegraaf news.
Anita speaks good English, in my opinion. Better than some English speaking only people I know. So, I did notice in that bit that was shown last night where she said in English that she had set up or arranged for him to get counseling in the Netherlands for his gambling addiction.
Since I don't understand or speak Dutch, I have had to rely on Google translations, or Babelfish translations, or whatever sub-titles might appear on videos, or sometimes the kindness of strangers who will translate small portions into English. Or, translations from Dutch into Spanish into English.

So, I am not willing to believe that she purposely changed her story, depending on what language she was speaking.

I am sympathetic to Anita in her current state of being. And, I believed what she had to say in the snippets of her interview shown in that E! thing. So, there you go. I would not want to change places with her for any amount of money.

By, the way, I think Comcast owns E! and they just bought all that footage from ABC and probably had it compiled by some outside vendor type production house and made it into a little show that they can sell advertising for.

I agree I wouldn't want to be in her shoes. However,
I don't feel any sympathy for Anita in her current situation, and I do feel sorry for her that she made bad decisions in Joran's behavioral problems...if she's caring at all, it will eat at her...forever..until she claims it. It's not like she wasn't in a position to be aware of them....she was a teacher FGS, and a possible shrink amidst the family?. Seems they were forever giving Joran everything and all the opportunities in the world for a teen to get into trouble and turning a blinds eye to it....letting society, shrinks, murdered victims and LE/prison eventually deal with it, without any say, judgement or help she may have...now. I'm sure she is in a situation or the crossroads where she is having to deal with it or just keep rationalizing and displacing her and his past actions. It's not she's inept, she knew well of the problem and chose not to deal with it.

 

[marikesh]

I noticed that as well, marikesh. I'd not heard the word 'addiction' associated with sending him for counseling in the Netherlands until last night. It also seems like the supposed note he left for her when he left for Peru gets longer and more elaborate with each telling. She said that she was 'more than mad' and 'more than angry' when he left for Peru and avoided going for treatment. However, I've seen the screen shots of her FB myself where both she and Julia Renfroe are cheerily wishing him the best vacation ever right after he left. So, once again, she didn't seem to be distraught over his departure at all, IMO.

As much as I can understand people feeling sorry for Anita, (I did at one time too) there are places she seems to trip herself up...like the note that gets more elaborate and she is now angry, yet on Facebook wishing him well on his travels. Did she not even question where he got the money to travel?
As well, whether it's a translation issue or not, she now refers to a door that Joran used for sneaking out to go gambling, and she never knew he was sneaking out as he would be there in the morning.
Her friends described the apartment as a "lean-to" when people questioned how on earth could a mother and father give a private apartment to someone who wasn't reliable. Friends also mentioned there was only one door on this "lean-to". (I am rolling my eyes at the excuses)
So did Anita know, or not know he was sneaking out? Part of her wording sounds like she knew. If she and her husband knew, it seems nothing was done when there should have been, imo. Joran continued and even had an account that his father made for him for gambling. What does that say?

Now we find that the movie being produced about a missing girl that supposedly had a "nose packed full of cocaine", the producer (Paul Ruven) is friends with Renee Gielen, her son Dolphe, Julia Renfro, plus other enablers. It comes as no surprise really. I am wondering when that group will start attacking the victim Stepheny.

 

[suzihawk]

Marikesh... you and I are on the very same page! I certainly wouldn't want to trade places with AVS and, as a human being, I have a small measure of compassion for the situation she now finds herself in - even as I do for her son. But, she created so much of it herself that it's impossible for me to feel sorry for her at this point. Both she and her son have made their beds and now need to lie in them.

As you pointed out, both she (and Paulus) not only made excuses for his behavior, but they encouraged it by not holding him accountable for his behavior and providing the means for him to continue - such as his living arrangements and the money provided to gamble, etc. Enabling at it's finest. Maybe they just wanted him out of their hair. But that's a lousy substitute for parenting, IMO. She's a teacher, FGS! Then when he inevitably got into big trouble, they act all surprised and start the whitewash about what a good boy he's always been. :waitasec: Even going so far as to blame the victim, which is despicable.

I'm not buying the hogwash she's now spewing. It's too little - too late, and only because she's backed into the corner since her son's been caught red-handed this time. It still doesn't keep her from trying to place the blame anywhere than where it belongs. (It's the media's fault for hounding him.)

And yes... it seems there are a couple of names in common that are associated with both the new fictional film coming out and the 'documentary', "TimeLies", connected to Renee Gielen. Coincidence? I don't think so. They're never going to give it up and just admit he's a psycho killer.

All MOO, of course.

 

[faw720]

Ever since this latest Joran saga started I've had conflicting opinions on Anita. Initially I thought she was just one of the thousands of clueless people with zero parenting skills & had created a monster without even realizing it. Naturally she loves Joran, no matter what, but making excuses for him is just reprehensible. My sympathy for her is fading fast.

 

[Nova]

Ever since this latest Joran saga started I've had conflicting opinions on Anita. Initially I thought she was just one of the thousands of clueless people with zero parenting skills & had created a monster without even realizing it. Naturally she loves Joran, no matter what, but making excuses for him is just reprehensible. My sympathy for her is fading fast.

Can we really be so certain that psychopaths and sociopaths are created or prevented by good or bad parenting? It isn't my impression that the field of psychiatry understands either condition well enough to make that determination.

It wasn't so long ago that we were blaming parents for schizophrenia and homosexuality (not that the latter is a bad thing), but most of us now know better.

While it's true that AVDS can occasionally communicate with her elder son, Anita's hopes and dreams for Joran are just as "dead" as Beth Holloway's hopes and dreams for Natalee. That's not to say their situations are identical, but I'm inclined to consider them both "collateral damage."

I certainly don't pretend to know what I would do or say in their shoes.

 

[FLNY]

Can we really be so certain that psychopaths and sociopaths are created or prevented by good or bad parenting? It isn't my impression that the field of psychiatry understands either condition well enough to make that determination.

It wasn't so long ago that we were blaming parents for schizophrenia and homosexuality (not that the latter is a bad thing), but most of us now know better.

While it's true that AVDS can occasionally communicate with her elder son, Anita's hopes and dreams for Joran are just as "dead" as Beth Holloway's hopes and dreams for Natalee. That's not to say their situations are identical, but I'm inclined to consider them both "collateral damage."

I certainly don't pretend to know what I would do or say in their shoes.

I don't feel that Joran's psychopathic tendencies were CAUSED by bad parenting, but believe it was a lack of GOOD parenting that exacerbated these traits. His parents' neglect in getting him the help he needed at an early age...and, in fact, encouraging his bad behaviour (i.e., separate apartment, credit line at casino) in his teen years ... contributed significantly to making Joran the person he is today. I would imagine any help Anita is providing to him now financially is not only done out of love, but also a sense of guilt and shame.

MOO

 

[faw720]

I don't feel that Joran's psychopathic tendencies were CAUSED by bad parenting, but believe it was a lack of GOOD parenting that exacerbated these traits. His parents' neglect in getting him the help he needed at an early age...and, in fact, encouraging his bad behaviour (i.e., separate apartment, credit line at casino) in his teen years ... contributed significantly to making Joran the person he is today. I would imagine any help Anita is providing to him now financially is not only done out of love, but also a sense of guilt and shame.

MOO

Well said!! It's really sad that a lot of parents don't understand what their children REALLY need. Some are so focused on giving their children money & the things it can buy that they neglect to provide structure, discipline, emotional support & guidance, & other things that contribute to the development of a mentally healthy child.

 

[suzihawk]

I don't feel that Joran's psychopathic tendencies were CAUSED by bad parenting, but believe it was a lack of GOOD parenting that exacerbated these traits. His parents' neglect in getting him the help he needed at an early age...and, in fact, encouraging his bad behaviour (i.e., separate apartment, credit line at casino) in his teen years ... contributed significantly to making Joran the person he is today. I would imagine any help Anita is providing to him now financially is not only done out of love, but also a sense of guilt and shame.

MOO

Well said!! It's really sad that a lot of parents don't understand what their children REALLY need. Some are so focused on giving their children money & the things it can buy that they neglect to provide structure, discipline, emotional support & guidance, & other things that contribute to the development of a mentally healthy child.

I second that "well said"!!

I don't know how much is nurture vs. nature, but I definitely think there's a mix of both involved in how one comes to develop healthy morals and character (or lack thereof, in this case).

I also think there was/is another factor involved in how they dealt with JVS's issues and that was to protect their own reputations and quite possibly the reputations of others.

 

[Nova]

I don't feel that Joran's psychopathic tendencies were CAUSED by bad parenting, but believe it was a lack of GOOD parenting that exacerbated these traits. His parents' neglect in getting him the help he needed at an early age...and, in fact, encouraging his bad behaviour (i.e., separate apartment, credit line at casino) in his teen years ... contributed significantly to making Joran the person he is today. I would imagine any help Anita is providing to him now financially is not only done out of love, but also a sense of guilt and shame.

MOO

I certainly don't approve of giving a minor a credit line at a casino. But I know more than a few affluent families with "guest houses" who let their older teens reside in those separate facilities; none of the people I know had kids turn out to be murderers.

I don't see how we can know that JVDS would be any different today if he had shared a bedroom with his brother and had been barred from casinos.

Young men were preying on vulnerable young women before there was casinos or casitas.

I'm sure most parents feel a sense of shame if their children turn out badly. That doesn't prove they are actually at fault.

 

[Nova]

Well said!! It's really sad that a lot of parents don't understand what their children REALLY need. Some are so focused on giving their children money & the things it can buy that they neglect to provide structure, discipline, emotional support & guidance, & other things that contribute to the development of a mentally healthy child.

I certainly agree with your view on what constitutes good parenting.

But JVDS' alleged actions are so extreme, I'm not sure we can pinpoint what about his upbringing may have been contributing factors.