Ramsey Clothing Journey

[JMO8778]

angelwngs,
The staging would probably take about an hour not much more. e.g. cleanup, redressing, relocation, evidence removal. But I reckon there was more than one staging, a minimum of two, also the wine-cellar staging appears to have come late in the morning?

So assuming a PDI for whatever reason then later that morning John finds out about then decides to change the staging, so on this second staging, it should take less time to construct, since major parts were accomplished in the first staging. So thats possibly an hour and a half or two hours in total, allowing for the ransom note to be written, this was probably took up a bit of time?


Not certain what you mean by very early that morning? Because the pineapple has not completed its transit through JonBenet's intestine, this places a time limit on how close she died to after having her snack, lets say an hour or two?

So the average tod is assumed to be about 1AM, leaving 4 hours and more for staging.

Another staging location may have been the basement itself, with a similar scenario. JonBenet dressed in her barbie gown, and whacked on the head, but this does not seem as compelling as using her bedroom, since there is little logic to a basement staging.

.

but wouldn't that scream even moreso, parent did it,if she was left in her bedroom? they needed a KN/killer/intruder scenario,as well as a need to run LE amok as to her location,thus the need to remove her from her bed,to another place(?)

 

[UKGuy]

but wouldn't that scream even moreso, parent did it,if she was left in her bedroom? they needed a KN/killer/intruder scenario,as well as a need to run LE amok as to her location,thus the need to remove her from her bed,to another place(?)

JMO8778,
Only in hindsight. Bedroom assaults, and attempted kidnappings, on young girls are not unknown , do a google search and ye shall be rewarded.

Also placing JonBenet outside of her bedroom as we all agree, except for those IDI promoters, requires specialist knowledge of the house. e.g. why was JonBenet not found in the kitchen, the garage, or the den etc?

The best solution would have been if JonBenet had been kidnapped, no body, no injuries, no suspicion? But they could not successfully remove JonBenet's body from the house on the 26th without knowing if they would be seen or heard, or even leave tracks in the snow.

So they resort to staging. I'm suggesting it was a two stage process, with a bedroom staging which was then amended to the wine-cellar.

I'm not settled on this, the first staging may have occurred say down in the basement. If I knew that any of the photographs of JonBenet found in the basement were actually taken there, I might switch to the basement. Then again how about JAR's room, could something have taken place in there, which was then cleaned up and stuff moved down to the basement?

If I think JonBenet was whacked by the flashlight, and I do, nobody has suggested a better candidate weapon, then consider the force of the blow and the target location e.g. JonBenet's skull, then the blow was no accident.

This was not required to kill JonBenet smothering would have been adequate, so the head blow was deliberate and intended just like the garroting was, so much so, Coroner Meyer cites them both as contributing factors. I reckon both may have been separate staging assaults?

The intial assault appears to be manual asphyxiation, and possibly molestation, both of which lead to her death. Alternately you have a PDI with Patsy swinging the flashlight and whacking JonBenet enraged for whatever reason, followed up by some staging then the wine-cellar scenario, with amending the latter to obsfucate any signs of abuse? Although why not just blame it on the intruder?


.

 

[Chrishope]

JMO8778,
Only in hindsight. Bedroom assaults, and attempted kidnappings, on young girls are not unknown , do a google search and ye shall be rewarded.

Also placing JonBenet outside of her bedroom as we all agree, except for those IDI promoters, requires specialist knowledge of the house. e.g. why was JonBenet not found in the kitchen, the garage, or the den etc?

The best solution would have been if JonBenet had been kidnapped, no body, no injuries, no suspicion? But they could not successfully remove JonBenet's body from the house on the 26th without knowing if they would be seen or heard, or even leave tracks in the snow.

So they resort to staging. I'm suggesting it was a two stage process, with a bedroom staging which was then amended to the wine-cellar.

I'm not settled on this, the first staging may have occurred say down in the basement. If I knew that any of the photographs of JonBenet found in the basement were actually taken there, I might switch to the basement. Then again how about JAR's room, could something have taken place in there, which was then cleaned up and stuff moved down to the basement?

If I think JonBenet was whacked by the flashlight, and I do, nobody has suggested a better candidate weapon, then consider the force of the blow and the target location e.g. JonBenet's skull, then the blow was no accident.

This was not required to kill JonBenet smothering would have been adequate, so the head blow was deliberate and intended just like the garroting was, so much so, Coroner Meyer cites them both as contributing factors. I reckon both may have been separate staging assaults?

The intial assault appears to be manual asphyxiation, and possibly molestation, both of which lead to her death. Alternately you have a PDI with Patsy swinging the flashlight and whacking JonBenet enraged for whatever reason, followed up by some staging then the wine-cellar scenario, with amending the latter to obsfucate any signs of abuse? Although why not just blame it on the intruder?


.

That last thought was interesting - why not just blame it on the intruder? Possibly the authorities would be able to tell the abuse wasn't from just that one night? Possibly an attempt was made to do enough damage that prior abuse wouldn't show up?

I've often wondered if the purpose of putting her in the wine cellar was to take her later to be dumped? I wonder if they (the Rs) actually thought the police would just listen to their story, put out an APB, then leave?

 

[angelwngs]

JMO8778,
Only in hindsight. Bedroom assaults, and attempted kidnappings, on young girls are not unknown , do a google search and ye shall be rewarded.

Also placing JonBenet outside of her bedroom as we all agree, except for those IDI promoters, requires specialist knowledge of the house. e.g. why was JonBenet not found in the kitchen, the garage, or the den etc?

The best solution would have been if JonBenet had been kidnapped, no body, no injuries, no suspicion? But they could not successfully remove JonBenet's body from the house on the 26th without knowing if they would be seen or heard, or even leave tracks in the snow.

So they resort to staging. I'm suggesting it was a two stage process, with a bedroom staging which was then amended to the wine-cellar.

I'm not settled on this, the first staging may have occurred say down in the basement. If I knew that any of the photographs of JonBenet found in the basement were actually taken there, I might switch to the basement. Then again how about JAR's room, could something have taken place in there, which was then cleaned up and stuff moved down to the basement?

If I think JonBenet was whacked by the flashlight, and I do, nobody has suggested a better candidate weapon, then consider the force of the blow and the target location e.g. JonBenet's skull, then the blow was no accident.

This was not required to kill JonBenet smothering would have been adequate, so the head blow was deliberate and intended just like the garroting was, so much so, Coroner Meyer cites them both as contributing factors. I reckon both may have been separate staging assaults?

The intial assault appears to be manual asphyxiation, and possibly molestation, both of which lead to her death. Alternately you have a PDI with Patsy swinging the flashlight and whacking JonBenet enraged for whatever reason, followed up by some staging then the wine-cellar scenario, with amending the latter to obsfucate any signs of abuse? Although why not just blame it on the intruder?


.

Were it not for that darned "scheduled" trip to Michigan they could have gotten her body out of the house...

If PR did it, and I think she did, don't you know she lived every day of the rest of her life replaying the 'what-ifs'...

The flashlight looks better and better as the murder weapon to me.
The more times I read about the R's saying, 'That "dirty" flashlight found in our home was NOT ours', the more I believe it was theirs. (Afterall, they owned one just like it which could not be located...) Distancing themselves from the probable murder weapon sure makes it look more definite as Being The Murder Weapon and saying it wasn't theirs is just like not recognizing the bowl of pineapple as theirs when Burke claimed it was... It helps "INVENT" an intruder theory...

 

[angelwngs]

TOD is variable only up to a point. The coroner considers not only the contents of the digestive tract, but also the organization (or lack of) of any wound or trauma. Examples would be the level of swelling and bleeding in the brain after such a catastrophic head blow.
The coroner will also consider the stage and degree of rigor and livor mortis and the ambient temperature and humidity in which the body had lain. In addition to the full rigor mortis in which she was found (which takes about 12 hours to achieve) she was also in the non-blanching stage, or fixed stage, of livor mortis, beyond which the blood remaining in the body will no longer move around when the body is moved.
There were two very important procedures that every coroner should perform as soon as they first encounter the deceased. BOTH of these were NOT done on JBR, for reasons unknown.
The first procedure is to take the core body temperature. A special thermometer is used for this- it has a sharp end like a meat thermometer. It is put in the liver and gives a very accurate reading of how much the body has cooled. There is a set formula of how much heat a body loses to the surrounding area according to the air temperature.
The second procedure is to take a sample of the vitreous fluid of the eyeball to check potassium levels. This is also an indication of the TOD.
Meyer has never explained why he did not do these 2 important steps, and to my knowledge, he has never been ASKED why not (except by us).

I thought it was said that it could not be more accurately determined due the the length of time which had elapsed between the finding of he body and the actual autopsy. (Or maybe that was just yet another of those things that I just made up in my head 'reading between the lines',,,)

 

[BBB167893]

That last thought was interesting - why not just blame it on the intruder? Possibly the authorities would be able to tell the abuse wasn't from just that one night? Possibly an attempt was made to do enough damage that prior abuse wouldn't show up?

A lot of people think that, Chrishope. And they're not all Internet sleuths, like some people seem to imply.

I've often wondered if the purpose of putting her in the wine cellar was to take her later to be dumped?

I have my doubts.

I wonder if they (the Rs) actually thought the police would just listen to their story, put out an APB, then leave?

Sure, that's what they do on TV, right? They may well have, if not for agent Walker.

 

[BBB167893]

Were it not for that darned "scheduled" trip to Michigan they could have gotten her body out of the house...

My brother and I hashed that one out a while ago. I agreed.

If PR did it, and I think she did, don't you know she lived every day of the rest of her life replaying the 'what-ifs'...

I'm sure that was only one of MANY things she thought about.

The flashlight looks better and better as the murder weapon to me.
The more times I read about the R's saying, 'That "dirty" flashlight found in our home was NOT ours', the more I believe it was theirs. (Afterall, they owned one just like it which could not be located...) Distancing themselves from the probable murder weapon sure makes it look more definite as Being The Murder Weapon and saying it wasn't theirs is just like not recognizing the bowl of pineapple as theirs when Burke claimed it was... It helps "INVENT" an intruder theory...

Well said.

 

[Chrishope]

I have my doubts.

Why?

 

[UKGuy]

Were it not for that darned "scheduled" trip to Michigan they could have gotten her body out of the house...

If PR did it, and I think she did, don't you know she lived every day of the rest of her life replaying the 'what-ifs'...

The flashlight looks better and better as the murder weapon to me.
The more times I read about the R's saying, 'That "dirty" flashlight found in our home was NOT ours', the more I believe it was theirs. (Afterall, they owned one just like it which could not be located...) Distancing themselves from the probable murder weapon sure makes it look more definite as Being The Murder Weapon and saying it wasn't theirs is just like not recognizing the bowl of pineapple as theirs when Burke claimed it was... It helps "INVENT" an intruder theory...

angelwngs,
Yes denial would be the legal advice given to them, this would make any prosecution more protracted.

Why would any intruder bother cleaning a flashlight, inside and out, then leave it in the house, when it could simply be pocketed, just like the size-6's, size-12's?

.

 

[BBB167893]

I have my doubts.

Why?

Well, maybe I'm not thinking about this the right way. I just figured that since they took the time to wrap her up with her favorite possession, they might not be willing to dump her. I mean, the fact that the note CARED enough to mention a proper burial speaks volumes to a lot of people.

 

[angelwngs]

angelwngs,
Yes denial would be the legal advice given to them, this would make any prosecution more protracted.

Why would any intruder bother cleaning a flashlight, inside and out, then leave it in the house, when it could simply be pocketed, just like the size-6's, size-12's?

.

Exactly. And don't you just Love the R's use of adjectives and how they directly connect to their 'true mental state' concerning the object they are describing.... ex. -"...that DIRTY Flashlight"...

 

[UKGuy]

That last thought was interesting - why not just blame it on the intruder? Possibly the authorities would be able to tell the abuse wasn't from just that one night? Possibly an attempt was made to do enough damage that prior abuse wouldn't show up?

I've often wondered if the purpose of putting her in the wine cellar was to take her later to be dumped? I wonder if they (the Rs) actually thought the police would just listen to their story, put out an APB, then leave?

Chrishope

why not just blame it on the intruder?

Because that was not the train of thought. The intruder might also be the chronic abuser, as well as the person who inflicted the acute assault, how can the authorities ever distinguish who was culpable?

So the fact it was inflicted and hidden suggests it was not intended to be blamed on any intruder. It was assumed it would become public knowledge eventually?


.

 

[UKGuy]

Exactly. And don't you just Love the R's use of adjectives and how they directly connect to their 'true mental state' concerning the object they are describing.... ex. -"...that DIRTY Flashlight"...

angelwngs,
Sure, typical innocence spin e.g. we are clean!

 

[UKGuy]

Well, maybe I'm not thinking about this the right way. I just figured that since they took the time to wrap her up with her favorite possession, they might not be willing to dump her. I mean, the fact that the note CARED enough to mention a proper burial speaks volumes to a lot of people.

SuperDave,

CARED? The implication is that the abductee is already dead, since you don't bury live children.

This after whacking JonBenet on the head and garroting her. Yet CASKU and others want to talk about parental concern and care?


.

 

[angelwngs]

angelwngs,
Sure, typical innocence spin e.g. we are clean!

Oh, I looked at it as 'dirty' because they KNEW it was the murder weapon...

 

[UKGuy]

Oh, I looked at it as 'dirty' because they KNEW it was the murder weapon...

angelwngs,
Could be, buts thats too obvious, they knew it was tarnished.

 

[angelwngs]

angelwngs,
Could be, buts thats too obvious, they knew it was tarnished.

...so was "and hence" but PR still reused it...

 

[Chrishope]

Well, maybe I'm not thinking about this the right way. I just figured that since they took the time to wrap her up with her favorite possession, they might not be willing to dump her. I mean, the fact that the note CARED enough to mention a proper burial speaks volumes to a lot of people.

Makes sense. I'd forgotten about that line in the RN

 

[angelwngs]

Well, maybe I'm not thinking about this the right way. I just figured that since they took the time to wrap her up with her favorite possession, they might not be willing to dump her. I mean, the fact that the note CARED enough to mention a proper burial speaks volumes to a lot of people.

And since they had just written it themselves, and it was so fresh on their minds it made sense to "use it" against the BPD as if their wanting to keep her body a little longer before releasing it was indeed the BPD 'ransoming her body' in the hopes of an interview...

Just like the "and hence" phrase was fresh on Patsy's mind when she re-aurhored it shortly after....

 

[Ames]

Well, maybe I'm not thinking about this the right way. I just figured that since they took the time to wrap her up with her favorite possession, they might not be willing to dump her. I mean, the fact that the note CARED enough to mention a proper burial speaks volumes to a lot of people.

What favorite possession are you talking about SD? The nightgown? Because not only did Patsy state that the nightgown was not JB's favorite, but also...when told about it, John says..that it wasn't "supposed to be there". IMO..it came out of the dryer, via static cling...with the blanket that she was wrapped in.