The ransom note and staging
- Thread starter laini
- Start date
Laini, you ask some very good questions, IMO.
Rather than answer them specifically, I'd like to give you my theory of what happened. I think my theory may fit some of your questions.
IMO, this crime was committed by someone abusing JBR, who did not want that abuse to be discovered. And in the days leading up to the crime, this someone had reasons to be worried.
JBR acting up. JBR refusing to do what she was told, maybe even moreso than normal. A mysterious 911 call placed on the day when JBR sits on the stairs (the spiral ones, maybe?) crying and saying she doesn't feel pretty.
Now, was this 'someone' the same 'someone' who was taking JBR to the doctor so regularly? I don't tend to think so, though others do. But though the doctor hadn't done a vaginal exam on JBR in quite some time (if at all--though I thought the list of her dr. visits showed one) PR was obviously concerned enough about JBR's vaginitis to seek medical care. It doesn't completely exclude her as the killer, but I think it makes JR more likely, since he wasn't the one taking JBR to the doctor.
So let's pretend that JR is the killer. On Christmas night, something happens that makes the problem of JBR something he has to take care of right away. (There are several possibilities, but this is already going to be too long.)
I do think there was a rage element--that blow to the head required powerful force and an intent to kill, in my opinion. But behind the rage of the moment was fear--and it's interesting to me that JR's sudden shift from 'nice' to 'angry' has been as easy to see as PR's was, in interviews etc.
Once the blow to the head was struck (along with some other 'manhandling' incidental to that, imo) JR realized that he was going to have to finish the job.
I think he took her to the basement at this point, no matter where upstairs the initial blow took place. I think he inflicted the sexual wound, which does appear to have been inflicted while JBR was still alive, in order to compromise the evidence of earlier abuse (and it worked, btw.) I then think death by strangulation took place--just a simple rope, no garrotte, 'elaborate' or otherwise.
Then the first staging took place. It involved a few things: BR's knife left by the rope's edges; a golf club beside the body; and the replacement of JBR's underwear with the size 12's, to hide the sexual wound which had begun to bleed and had possibly stained the other underwear.
JR then wakes PR, tells her to dress. She throws on her clothes from the night before and follows him. It is her scream the neighbor hears.
JR tells PR that BR is responsible for the crime. He struck her once before with a golf club, the two of them fight like normal kids, and the scenario he has set up is very plausible. Later, he will tell her that BR has no memory of what he's done, something PR will believe because she wants to believe it. Maybe JR even says that they have a responsibility never to tell him what they 'know' in order to help him 'heal'. But at the moment, their concern must be for him, to protect him.
Now, whether or not PR knows CO law won't let BR be charged in the crime doesn't really matter. Maybe she does, and her motive in helping with the cover-up is just to keep BR from being taken away from them, as he most likely will be. (JR has a powerful weapon here: he just has to hint that social services will get involved and take him, and that PR's cancer could return and she could die without ever being allowed to see him again.) But she does agree to help.
JR sets her to the task of writing the ransom note, probably telling her certain things he wants her to put in, but leaving the rest to her. He then goes down to prepare JBR for what he intends to do: he intends to dump her body somewhere. (Indirectly corroborated by the RN writer's possible subconscious concern about a 'proper burial'). He definitely wants to dump JBR's body; the best scenario for him at this point is that her body decay to the point that the sexual abuse isn't noticeable at all. Unfortunately, things have taken too long. If PR saw the body around 2am (scream) and it took an hour or so to get her composed and get her started on the note, then it's around or after 3 by the time JR gets back to work.
He's supposed to re-dress her in the Barbie gown and wrap her in the blanket. Unfortunately, if the crime occurred sometime between 11pm and midnight, as I think it must have, it's now been three to four hours since she was killed, and rigor mortis has started to set in, enough to make it difficult to replace her clothing. Not only that, but JR has had time to think about the 'dumping the body' scenario and has realized that there's no way to do this undetected. It's just too risky, esp. with that 7am flight scheduled, the cancelling of which will definitely raise questions.
He re-stages JBR's body to look like the work of a sexual pervert instead, hoping that this will erase any questions about sexual abuse. When he fashions the garrotte, the fibers from PR's sweater, which are all over the rope due to the time PR spent holding and sobbing over JBR's body, are twisted into the knot.
He goes up to PR and tells her what he's done, telling her, too, that it will be better for him not to give her details which will only be upsetting. She has finished the note; he decides they must use it anyway, since he has to have a legitimate reason for calling the airport and cancelling his flight, and he's smart enough to know that just not being able to locate JBR in that huge pile of a house isn't a good enough reason, since if she's just missing, they'd obviously have to pretend to search every room for her, and would then 'discover' the body too soon as well.
By this time, I think it's at least four a.m., possibly closer to five. They spend a little more time getting things 'ready' and if my experience of women like PR is any guide, it takes her almost half an hour to put her makeup on anyway. They also rehearse for as long as they dare to: the call, their story, as many things as they can think of. They didn't do a very good job of this that first day, though, did they?
Finally it's time for the 911 call, about the missing daughter who isn't missing at all.
Things will happen later that make sense by this theory: JR's 'walk' alone the night of Dec. 26 (to dispose of the underwear, maybe?); JR's concern about the golf clubs, which don't appear to have any real connection to the crime; the fact that BR's knife was found near the crime scene, and some other oddities that crop up.
I think this explains the odd discord between the RN and the crime scene, but obviously there are many other possibilities.
Rather than answer them specifically, I'd like to give you my theory of what happened. I think my theory may fit some of your questions.
IMO, this crime was committed by someone abusing JBR, who did not want that abuse to be discovered. And in the days leading up to the crime, this someone had reasons to be worried.
JBR acting up. JBR refusing to do what she was told, maybe even moreso than normal. A mysterious 911 call placed on the day when JBR sits on the stairs (the spiral ones, maybe?) crying and saying she doesn't feel pretty.
Now, was this 'someone' the same 'someone' who was taking JBR to the doctor so regularly? I don't tend to think so, though others do. But though the doctor hadn't done a vaginal exam on JBR in quite some time (if at all--though I thought the list of her dr. visits showed one) PR was obviously concerned enough about JBR's vaginitis to seek medical care. It doesn't completely exclude her as the killer, but I think it makes JR more likely, since he wasn't the one taking JBR to the doctor.
So let's pretend that JR is the killer. On Christmas night, something happens that makes the problem of JBR something he has to take care of right away. (There are several possibilities, but this is already going to be too long.)
I do think there was a rage element--that blow to the head required powerful force and an intent to kill, in my opinion. But behind the rage of the moment was fear--and it's interesting to me that JR's sudden shift from 'nice' to 'angry' has been as easy to see as PR's was, in interviews etc.
Once the blow to the head was struck (along with some other 'manhandling' incidental to that, imo) JR realized that he was going to have to finish the job.
I think he took her to the basement at this point, no matter where upstairs the initial blow took place. I think he inflicted the sexual wound, which does appear to have been inflicted while JBR was still alive, in order to compromise the evidence of earlier abuse (and it worked, btw.) I then think death by strangulation took place--just a simple rope, no garrotte, 'elaborate' or otherwise.
Then the first staging took place. It involved a few things: BR's knife left by the rope's edges; a golf club beside the body; and the replacement of JBR's underwear with the size 12's, to hide the sexual wound which had begun to bleed and had possibly stained the other underwear.
JR then wakes PR, tells her to dress. She throws on her clothes from the night before and follows him. It is her scream the neighbor hears.
JR tells PR that BR is responsible for the crime. He struck her once before with a golf club, the two of them fight like normal kids, and the scenario he has set up is very plausible. Later, he will tell her that BR has no memory of what he's done, something PR will believe because she wants to believe it. Maybe JR even says that they have a responsibility never to tell him what they 'know' in order to help him 'heal'. But at the moment, their concern must be for him, to protect him.
Now, whether or not PR knows CO law won't let BR be charged in the crime doesn't really matter. Maybe she does, and her motive in helping with the cover-up is just to keep BR from being taken away from them, as he most likely will be. (JR has a powerful weapon here: he just has to hint that social services will get involved and take him, and that PR's cancer could return and she could die without ever being allowed to see him again.) But she does agree to help.
JR sets her to the task of writing the ransom note, probably telling her certain things he wants her to put in, but leaving the rest to her. He then goes down to prepare JBR for what he intends to do: he intends to dump her body somewhere. (Indirectly corroborated by the RN writer's possible subconscious concern about a 'proper burial'). He definitely wants to dump JBR's body; the best scenario for him at this point is that her body decay to the point that the sexual abuse isn't noticeable at all. Unfortunately, things have taken too long. If PR saw the body around 2am (scream) and it took an hour or so to get her composed and get her started on the note, then it's around or after 3 by the time JR gets back to work.
He's supposed to re-dress her in the Barbie gown and wrap her in the blanket. Unfortunately, if the crime occurred sometime between 11pm and midnight, as I think it must have, it's now been three to four hours since she was killed, and rigor mortis has started to set in, enough to make it difficult to replace her clothing. Not only that, but JR has had time to think about the 'dumping the body' scenario and has realized that there's no way to do this undetected. It's just too risky, esp. with that 7am flight scheduled, the cancelling of which will definitely raise questions.
He re-stages JBR's body to look like the work of a sexual pervert instead, hoping that this will erase any questions about sexual abuse. When he fashions the garrotte, the fibers from PR's sweater, which are all over the rope due to the time PR spent holding and sobbing over JBR's body, are twisted into the knot.
He goes up to PR and tells her what he's done, telling her, too, that it will be better for him not to give her details which will only be upsetting. She has finished the note; he decides they must use it anyway, since he has to have a legitimate reason for calling the airport and cancelling his flight, and he's smart enough to know that just not being able to locate JBR in that huge pile of a house isn't a good enough reason, since if she's just missing, they'd obviously have to pretend to search every room for her, and would then 'discover' the body too soon as well.
By this time, I think it's at least four a.m., possibly closer to five. They spend a little more time getting things 'ready' and if my experience of women like PR is any guide, it takes her almost half an hour to put her makeup on anyway. They also rehearse for as long as they dare to: the call, their story, as many things as they can think of. They didn't do a very good job of this that first day, though, did they?
Finally it's time for the 911 call, about the missing daughter who isn't missing at all.
Things will happen later that make sense by this theory: JR's 'walk' alone the night of Dec. 26 (to dispose of the underwear, maybe?); JR's concern about the golf clubs, which don't appear to have any real connection to the crime; the fact that BR's knife was found near the crime scene, and some other oddities that crop up.
I think this explains the odd discord between the RN and the crime scene, but obviously there are many other possibilities.
coloradokares
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Albert18 the difference may have been that JonBenet may have said I am going to tell. Tell Melinda she'll believe me. Or maybe it was the rage theory. What it was not in my opinion was an intruder that we just cannot create out of thin air.Albert18 said:
JMO8778
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yea,see....THAT is the *real JR ..and the real PR too,for that matter...they later admitted BR was up,had tears in his eyes,and was asking questions..."please,what do I do???" ..and JR snaps at him !!! .."we are not talking to YOU!!"...and sends him back to bed !! ..and obv. with orders NOT to get up till they say he can !! ..I felt sorry for poor Burke when I read that !!!Solace said:
JMO8778
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It's plausable,but,why would he tell PR to get dressed? Why not just go down to the basement in her gown?Dru said:
Maybe she had plans to go with him to dump the body,or even to do it alone,while he stayed with BR,in case he got up? So at some point she quickly dressed .. I suppose she would want to approve of where JB's body is left.But then she decides not to do it..thoughts of dressing JB up in her crown and gown,and she herself dressing like Jackie O,hollering the Lazarus phrase,etc...come to mind,and she won't let JR do it.
I have to say that it seems the note was to try and frame the housekeeper tho..which is why I think BR's knife was left there...the only person outside the family that knew where it was hidden was LHP(PR did too tho).But..did JR know where it was? I don't know.Other than that,the scenerio would have to be PR putting the knife there.Also I think with the sexual assault,and where the body was left (since LHP and her Husb. had been in that room for xmas stuff) ..I suspect the intent was to try to frame LHP's hubby for sexual assault and murder.Any ideas?
This is a good point, JMO8778, but I think the main reason he'd tell her to 'throw on some clothes' is that a basement room in Colorado in the middle of the night in the dead of winter is going to be pretty darned cold. A mere nightgown, even a flannel one, even with a robe and slippers, is going to be chilly.JMO8778 said:
Besides, they were supposed to leave for MI the next morning, very early. PR had finished most of the packing, all but a few things to gather in the morning. I wouldn't be surprised if she'd already packed her warmest robe.
Does anyone know if the temperature in the basement, probably slightly colder than the rest of the house, would have hastened the appearance of rigor mortis any?
Ames
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Excellent questions...I am 100 percent sure that the basement would have been colder than the rest of the house...we have four levels...and the basement is a good bit cooler...even though we have heating vents. I am going to look up the question you had about the coldness hastening the appearance of rigor mortis, on the internet, I will let you know what I find....very good question.Dru said:
Ames
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http://www.nurseminerva.co.uk/dying.htm#How_long_does_it_take_rigor_mortis_to_set_in
How long does it take rigor mortis to set in?
28th March 1999
The rate at which rigor mortis it sets in will depend on several factors such as the person's physique, cause of death and the environment, whether warm, cold, dry, or wet. Different sources give different figures, but very broadly and in 'average' circumstances it begins about 3 to 4 hours after death and becomes complete in about 12 hours (Sherwood, 1997).
Reference
How long does it take rigor mortis to set in?
28th March 1999
The rate at which rigor mortis it sets in will depend on several factors such as the person's physique, cause of death and the environment, whether warm, cold, dry, or wet. Different sources give different figures, but very broadly and in 'average' circumstances it begins about 3 to 4 hours after death and becomes complete in about 12 hours (Sherwood, 1997).
Reference
- Sherwood, L. (1997) Human physiology: from cells to systems (3rd edition). Belmont, CA: Wadsworth Publishing Company (page 232).
icedtea4me
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If you read between the lines, imo, it does.laini said:
-Tea
laini
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Wow. It is so interesting to read what everyone thinks happened!
Dru, what you believe took place is very interesting to read. I wish we could know.
I wonder if Burke really knows something and will talk one day.
Also good points about her threatening to tell Melinda, and about trying to frame the housekeeper. Like I said before, each theory makes sense when I think about it.
Dru, what you believe took place is very interesting to read. I wish we could know.
I wonder if Burke really knows something and will talk one day.
Also good points about her threatening to tell Melinda, and about trying to frame the housekeeper. Like I said before, each theory makes sense when I think about it.
coloradokares
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What we know is a group of friends of which Barbara Fernie and many others were a part told Patsy when they got back from the Disney Cruise they were going to need to discuss the Mega JonBenet "thing" What exactly was that 'thing" Pageants.....abuse issues? One thing you have to know about Boulder we are pretty tight lipped. One reason is look at all the National criticism that the Ramseys threw at us.JMO8778 said:
Does anyone recall reading that John's blue bathrobe was found in the downstairs den???
What the heck was it doing there? Especially odd since John was a neat freak...the only family member who put their clothes where they belonged.
John could of had that bathrobe on while he was helping Patsy stage the kidnapping crime scene. He simply forgot to take it upstairs early that morning.
What the heck was it doing there? Especially odd since John was a neat freak...the only family member who put their clothes where they belonged.
John could of had that bathrobe on while he was helping Patsy stage the kidnapping crime scene. He simply forgot to take it upstairs early that morning.
JMO8778 said:
JMO8778,
Maybe ... lets try some kiss and occam, why frame someone when you do not know if they may have an alibi, e.g. LHP and spouse may have been at a public function, may have been pulled over by traffic cops 100 miles away? Because if you get it wrong then its going to look even worse than not doing it at all.
Maybe BlueCrab's take on this evidence seems more consistent?
.
Toltec said:
Toltec,
All depends when you think it arrived there, it may be from another day?
Otherwise it could be used to discredit the Ramsey statements regarding going to bed and sleeping soundly, until he arrived downstairs in his underwear to read the ransom note.
.
Ames said:
Ames,
This is a very important question.
If there was any possibility of a mistake in our assumptions it could be with the TOD?
Rigor Mortis has its onset approximately two hours after death, this is detectable in the small muscles in the face and neck and it progresss downwards in a head to toe fashion to the larger muscles.
The entire process takes aproximately 8-12 hours then the stiff posture is reached.
The body stays this way for about a further 18 hours, this is known as the rigid state.
The process then reverses itself in the same order it began.
Rigor Mortis can start immediately after death in some circumstance due to poisoning, extreme physical activity, or increased body temperature prior to death. These deplete the muscles of ATP. Cold can slow down the onset of Rigor Mortis.
Due to all these variables Rigor is the least reliable method for determining the time of death.
Lividity or liver mortis can also help estimate the TOD. Lividity is caused by stagnation of blood in the vessels, e.g. on death the blood follows gravity, so a corpse on its back will develop lividity along the back and buttocks, a corpse on its right side develops lividity along the right side of the body etc. So victims who are asphyxiated may develop deep purple lividity due to oxygen depletion. Victims of asphyxiation may slow down the postmortem lividity process and delay the fixing of lividity.
Now I think I have mentioned this before but JonBenet's Rigor Mortis position has her arms in a upwards posture. Now its possible, e.g. due to her head bash, that immediately upon death JonBenet suffered a Cadaveric Spasm this causes instant stiffness and leaves the victim rigid reflecting the moment of death, e.g. gripping the blade of a knife, or arms upwards in a defensive posture?
.
Show Me
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The sexual abuse was one thing John did NOT want to discuss at all...wether on a tv talk show or with the cops. John claimed weeks after JonBenet's murder the abuse was news to him....apparently he and Patsy didn't want to talk about it. Not the least bit curious on what happened to 'that child'.