TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #13

[Pearl*]

TE was on the "W" Road not on East Brow.. The "W" can be quite dangerous..
The area where they claim Gail's jeep went off the mountain is not dangerous..JMHO

Very true. No guard rails needed.

I do not believe guard rails would have prevented this, and I do not believe she was texting while driving. As for whether it would be physically possible to text while charging the phone, I'd say it all depends on the length of the cord on the charger, relative to the location of the plug in the jeep. In my vehicle, it is a strain to use the phone while it is plugged in, due to the pull on the cord, but I still think it's irrelevant.

I drove the route for the first time today, and IMO Hampton is a heck of a lot more dangerous than East Brow. I think if she were texting she would have run off the road on Hampton.

 

[TheDuchess]

Think that would be rather difficult since it has been stated her phone was charging.

FWIW-I text while driving with my phone charging and talk on the phone in the car with it charging. Word of fair warning-I also read e-mails and sometimes even check in here while driving. I know. I am terrible!!!
:blushing:

 

[Emeralgem]

FWIW-I text while driving with my phone charging and talk on the phone in the car with it charging. Word of fair warning-I also read e-mails and sometimes even check in here while driving. I know. I am terrible!!!
:blushing:

I won't say you are terrible but I will say reading e-mails and texting while driving is not a wise thing to do...JMHO

In reference to myself I do not believe Gail was talking on the phone or texting anyone when that jeep went off the mountain. And I do not believe she made a decision to end her own life either....IMHO Someone else is responsible for WHY Gail Palmgren is no longer alive and no longer here to share the Holiday Season with those she loved the most....Her children....JMHO

 

[Melodie]

I won't say you are terrible but I will say reading e-mails and texting while driving is not a wise thing to do...JMHO

In reference to myself I do not believe Gail was talking on the phone or texting anyone when that jeep went off the mountain. And I do not believe she made a decision to end her own life either....IMHO Someone else is responsible for WHY Gail Palmgren is no longer alive and no longer here to share the Holiday Season with those she loved the most....Her children....JMHO

I agree. I am also concerned about the statement from LE that Gail was apparently not buckled up. Now, I know that her not wearing a seatbelt does not technically prove anything, but I find it very odd. I am close to the same age, and I find that most people in my age group wear seatbelts. I also think that most people either wear them or not. It's a habit. If you wear your seatbelt, then you always wear it. Gail was also a mother of young children and I think that most parents of children at that age want to set a good example for their kids. She also traveled for her job. It just does not make sense to me that she would not have been buckled up. I don't believe she was distracted by texting, either. I would think that would be pretty easy for them to prove, also. They have been able to prove in other cases that people involved in car accidents were sending or receiving texts at the exact moment of the crash. Surely that will be determined when the investigation is complete. I also agree that it would have been very difficult to impossible for Gail to have been doing anything else as it appears from the pictures that all attention was needed to thread that Jeep perfectly through that tiny little space. IYKWIM...:twocents:

 

[October]

One of the things that bothers me most about Gail's death is the fact that her seat belt was off. Have we heard if this was a regular habit of her's? I don't know any adults who drive without their seat belts on. Even if very upset, buckling up is second nature to me. It feels too weird to drive that way. If Gail was the same, I don't she could have been forced off the road or accidentally drove off while texting. It leaves two possiblities for me.

#1 - Suicide. I know this is not a popular one, but she does seem to have gone over just after dropping the kids off. Things could have been too much for her and she couldn't take it anymore.

#2 - Gail is in some way incapacitated, placed in her vehicle and pushed over. In this scenario I see no way to do this at a high rate of speed.


I find #2 very hard to believe, which leads me back to #1. I know that Gail's husband is a jerk who made is very obvious that he did not care about her, but I just don't see how he could have made this happen. JMO.

 

[Emeralgem]

One of the things that bothers me most about Gail's death is the fact that her seat belt was off. Have we heard if this was a regular habit of her's? I don't know any adults who drive without their seat belts on. Even if very upset, buckling up is second nature to me. It feels too weird to drive that way. If Gail was the same, I don't she could have been forced off the road or accidentally drove off while texting. It leaves two possiblities for me.

#1 - Suicide. I know this is not a popular one, but she does seem to have gone over just after dropping the kids off. Things could have been too much for her and she couldn't take it anymore.

#2 - Gail is in some way incapacitated, placed in her vehicle and pushed over. In this scenario I see no way to do this at a high rate of speed.


I find #2 very hard to believe, which leads me back to #1. I know that Gail's husband is a jerk who made is very obvious that he did not care about her, but I just don't see how he could have made this happen. JMO.

My understanding from those I spoke with at the rally back in October was she always wore her seat belt. They claim she wore it religiously... Let me add these are people who did know her personally...JMHO

As I see it Matt P and his attorneys have attempted since day one to insinuate in around about way she may have taken her own life... I, for one, am not buying into that theory.. Reason being that is what he would like for us to believe happened. I have said from the beginning IF she and the jeep were ever found it would be made to look like an accident or a suicide...JMHO

Also you mentioned high rate of speed.. To my knowledge no one has mentioned anything about her traveling at a high rate of speed...May I ask WHY you believe high speed is involved? JMHO

 

[cocomod]

Praying for Gail's children and family as they deal with the fact that she is truly gone. Especially during the Christmas holiday season, this will be very difficult for them to process. :cry:

 

[October]

My understanding from those I spoke with at the rally back in October was she always wore her seat belt. They claim she wore it religiously... Let me add these are people who did know her personally...JMHO

As I see it Matt P and his attorneys have attempted since day one to insinuate in around about way she may have taken her own life... I, for one, am not buying into that theory.. Reason being that is what he would like for us to believe happened. I have said from the beginning IF she and the jeep were ever found it would be made to look like an accident or a suicide...JMHO

Also you mentioned high rate of speed.. To my knowledge no one has mentioned anything about her traveling at a high rate of speed...May I ask WHY you believe high speed is involved? JMHO

I was under the impression that a high rate of speed would be needed to bring the rock over with the jeep. If the jeep was pushed over would there have been enough force to get the rock over as well? I swear I heard this on one of the news shows, but I'm not finding it now. I could very well be wrong. If I am this changes my opinions slightly. It still seems a very bizarre way to murder someone. I'd love to hear people's theories on this. If it was not an accident or suicide, exactly how do you think it happened? I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this.

 

[Emeralgem]

I was under the impression that a high rate of speed would be needed to bring the rock over with the jeep. If the jeep was pushed over would there have been enough force to get the rock over as well? I swear I heard this on one of the news shows, but I'm not finding it now. I could very well be wrong. If I am this changes my opinions slightly. It still seems a very bizarre way to murder someone. I'd love to hear people's theories on this. If it was not an accident or suicide, exactly how do you think it happened? I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this.

Do big flat rocks roll and IF she hit a rock close to the road why wasn't there any sign of a rock being dragged along the grass to the edge of the mountain?
IMHO..I have felt from the beginning this is/was a MFH.. I also suspect quite alot of thought and planning as well as a substantial amount of cash is involved... And sadly, I suspect the money paid out was Gail's own money...JMHO

 

[confused]

Do big flat rocks roll and IF she hit a rock close to the road why wasn't there any sign of a rock being dragged along the grass to the edge of the mountain?
IMHO..I have felt from the beginning this is/was a MFH.. I also suspect quite alot of thought and planning as well as a substantial amount of cash is involved... And sadly, I suspect the money paid out was Gail's own money...JMHO

<modsnip> How do you think it was carried out if your theory is correct? The rock still had to get over the side. Was it carried? That would have taken more than one person, and you would think someone would notice people tossing a huge rock over the side, then setting a jeep in place and putting a body in it, then pushing it over. That kind of plan would have taken a fair amount of time to do, time that could have been interrupted by someone driving by at any second. Seems unbelievable and very risky to me. So the other theory seems to be pushing the jeep over, but it would take a massive push to propell the jeep and the rock over together...more than one person again. Of course any plan involving multiple people increases the chances of someone talking, so that wouldn't be smart. It seems that pushing someone off the mtn would have been a really risky and difficult way to murder someone, no matter how much money was involved.

 

[cluciano63]

I can't quite picture a scenario where someone is able to get Gail and her Jeep over the edge of this mountainside and so far down as to not be seen for months, without endangering their own lives...with another vehicle, one would have to ram it very, very hard, and if moving while doing so, risks going over as well. If one presumes that Gail was placed in the Jeep either dead or incapacitated, then it seems it would take either a few people to push it over, or again, a vehicle ramming from behind, probably more than once, until it went over. This last is possible, I suppose...but I just can't see all this taking place; someone would end up with a severely damaged front end of their car, at the very least, and it would probably involve more than one person to get her Jeep there with her in it and another vehicle to do the "ramming"." It all becomes very complex and calculated if so and the person(s) would have no way of being sure the Jeep would travel so far down as to be invisible, or that she would in fact die (if alive at this point.)

I don't know why she wouldn't have used her seatbelt, or even for sure how they know-I guess because it was intact? But couldn't it have sprung open upon impact?

I do happen to think this was a horrible accident, but am open if evidence is found that shows otherwise. I am not surprised by any statements or inferences from defense attorneys...I have come close to despising the profession of late, as it seems there is nothing too bad to say about a victim these days...

JMO

 

[suzier]

First, I want to say I haven't formed an opinion on what happened. As I said before, I think people that should have been there for Gail weren't. Regardless of what happened, external circumstances in her life we a contributing factor. That coupled with her husband's actions, including attempting to persuade people there had been multiple sightings of the jeep (very early on) just make me both seething and sad. but I digress...

What I wanted to throw out...was what if the rock was tossed over some time, in advance, to give an indicator of the path the jeep might travel. If the rock didn't make it all the way down to the lower road, the likelihood the jeep wouldn't either. Maybe that's too crazy.

However, it might explain a lot of different aspects which are puzzling, including why the missing rock wasn't connecting with the missing jeep.

 

[Oriah]

First, I want to say I haven't formed an opinion on what happened. As I said before, I think people that should have been there for Gail weren't. Regardless of what happened, external circumstances in her life we a contributing factor. That coupled with her husband's actions, including attempting to persuade people there had been multiple sightings of the jeep (very early on) just make me both seething and sad. but I digress...

What I wanted to throw out...was what if the rock was tossed over some time, in advance, to give an indicator of the path the jeep might travel. If the rock didn't make it all the way down to the lower road, the likelihood the jeep wouldn't either. Maybe that's too crazy.

However, it might explain a lot of different aspects which are puzzling, including why the missing rock wasn't connecting with the missing jeep.

That's an interesting thought, suzier- one that also crossed my mind in trying to figure out the trajectory of the Jeep.

I'm also surprised that little has been said about the other vehicle found at the location.
I get that it's thought to be unrelated to Gail's case- but I find it a bit odd that there is no mention of other remains found- or the owner of the vehicle. Did I miss that info somewhere?

Since other remains have not been mentioned, I guess we can assume that somehow this other vehicle was launched- without a driver or passengers in it- over the brow from approximately the same place? I wonder if the damage to that vehicle is consistant with the damage to the Jeep.

Just musings, really- but I'm really wanting to see accident simulation for both vehicles.

 

[Melodie]

That's an interesting thought, suzier- one that also crossed my mind in trying to figure out the trajectory of the Jeep.

I'm also surprised that little has been said about the other vehicle found at the location.
I get that it's thought to be unrelated to Gail's case- but I find it a bit odd that there is no mention of other remains found- or the owner of the vehicle. Did I miss that info somewhere?

Since other remains have not been mentioned, I guess we can assume that somehow this other vehicle was launched- without a driver or passengers in it- over the brow from approximately the same place? I wonder if the damage to that vehicle is consistant with the damage to the Jeep.

Just musings, really- but I'm really wanting to see accident simulation for both vehicles.

Hi Oriah, I have a little information about the other vehicle, however, I don't have a link, just a possible explanation. Many people have asked about the other vehicle. About a week or so after the recovery of Gail's Jeep, I was reading postings and comments on WTVC's FB page. This is our local channel 9. Some of the people were commenting about the other car found. A WTVC reporter made a comment on the post that the reporters had asked LE about the other vehicle and he said that when they were given more detailed information about it, they discovered that it was not quite as near to Gail's Jeep as the original report made it sound. "Near" to me means right by Gail's Jeep. Within sight of it, right? Well, this reporter said that it was actually much farther away. More like, and I quote- "1-2 miles away from the Jeep". If this is correct, then I don't know why they even brought it up as that is so far away. I have read other locals say that it has been there for a long time, like decades. It was involved in some sort of accident and unlike Gail's Jeep, it was not necessary to remove it and at the time, they thought it was too dangerous and too expensive, so they just left it there. All of this being considered, I theorized that when they were searching for Gail's Jeep in the air, they noticed the other vehicle. Possibly because it has been there so long, some of the younger investigators who were not aware of the story behind it, mentioned it as a matter of possible significance to the media. Maybe later they were informed of the details surrounding it and this may be why we did not hear anything else about it. The only other thing they have said about it is that they did not believe it was related to Gail's case. Anyone who is interested can go back through the postings at WTVC. I think it was several days to a week after the recovery. I can't say any of this is fact, just conjecture, but it makes sense to me if the car is actually 1-2 miles away from where the Jeep was found. It would also explain why there is not a noticeable image of the other vehicle in the aerial views of the recovery site. This is all just my opinion.

ETA- It took a few minutes, but I went back to look up the posts and I found two. Both were under the NewsChannel9 profile. They were closer to the recovery date than I thought (time flies). One was from Dec. 2 and one from Dec. 4.

12/4/11-(Update on Palmgren Jeep)- "... it is true that another vehicle was also found wrecked on the mountain, but we're told it was at least a mile away and totally unrelated to Palmgren's wrecked vehicle. We'll have more on what happened at the scene today, on NewsChannel9 at 6"


12/2/11-(This was under the post about CB issuing an apology): "... we just checked on that question with NewsChannel9's John Pless, & he says that Sheriff Hammond told him that that vehicle was actually discovered quite a ways away from the red Jeep Rubicon. As in, more than a mile or two away. Authorities don't believe it's connected to this case at all."




Incidentally, I guess in 2011, this counts as reporting. I never saw an official report on the news about this. JMO

 

[SnoopyDoobyDoo]

I don't know why she wouldn't have used her seatbelt, or even for sure how they know-I guess because it was intact? But couldn't it have sprung open upon impact?

SBM. It's also possible that Gail was injured after going over, undid the buckle to get out but was unable to for whatever reason and later died from her injuries. The conclusion that the seatbelt was off might have to do with trajectories/injuries, but at this late stage it might be hard to conclusively say when it occured.

 

[Emeralgem]

SBM. It's also possible that Gail was injured after going over, undid the buckle to get out but was unable to for whatever reason and later died from her injuries. The conclusion that the seatbelt was off might have to do with trajectories/injuries, but at this late stage it might be hard to conclusively say when it occured.

Seems to me IF she was able to undo her seatbelt she could have used her phone..My understanding is the phone was found still inside the jeep....jmho

 

[SnoopyDoobyDoo]

Seems to me IF she was able to undo her seatbelt she could have used her phone..My understanding is the phone was found still inside the jeep....jmho

Depends on how coherent she was. I know of at least one accident where the person gained consciousness only briefly and tried to escape by releasing the seatbelt and then passed out again, which is why it occured to me. The phone might have not been in reach or Gail might not have been in any condition to think of it.

Edit- I certainly hope it's not the explanation (I like to think that a person's death is painless and instant), but since people were asking why she would travel without a seatbelt and somebody mentioned ways it might have happened after the accident, I thought it worth consideration.

 

[Emeralgem]

Depends on how coherent she was. I know of at least one accident where the person gained consciousness only briefly and tried to escape by releasing the seatbelt and then passed out again, which is why it occured to me. The phone might have not been in reach or Gail might not have been in any condition to think of it.

Edit- I certainly hope it's not the explanation (I like to think that a person's death is painless and instant), but since people were asking why she would travel without a seatbelt and somebody mentioned ways it might have happened after the accident, I thought it worth consideration.

BBM Good point.. Frankly, I don't know that I believe Gail was even alive when that jeep went off the mountain...IMHO..She was either already deceased or heavily drugged..I too pray her death was painless...JMHO..

 

[Oriah]

Wouldn't the data recorder likely contain information on seatbelt status? It's interesting to me that LE said (iirc?) that it appeared she was not wearing a seatbelt before the data was recovered.

Oh- and thanks Melanie, for the perspective on the other vehicle.
Any chatter on whether or not that crash had a victim(s)?

 

[Melodie]

Wouldn't the data recorder likely contain information on seatbelt status? It's interesting to me that LE said (iirc?) that it appeared she was not wearing a seatbelt before the data was recovered.

Oh- and thanks Melanie, for the perspective on the other vehicle.
Any chatter on whether or not that crash had a victim(s)?

BBM--You're very welcome and well, yes. Maybe since this has apparently nothing at all to do with Gail's case, the moderators will allow a little flexibility here with regard to rumor. I saw a member of the community post somewhere else that the other car belonged to someone who committed suicide about 30 yrs. ago. This is just a rumor, though, so take it for what it's worth. I have heard nothing else about it from the media or other locals. :twocents: