toddler, woman killed by pit bulls

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mikeysmommom said:
Labs have attached and killed children.
Any dog breed can kill and even Labs have.I have had Rottweilers in my home for over 18 yrs and never have had one bite anyone.It is not Russian Roulette it is common sense and being a responsible pet owner.
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Are you saying that you have not noticed any trends?
 
Woe.be.gone said:
No, I love dogs. Don't want to see them put down. I'm not afraid of a German Sheppard if I know him and have his approval; not a fickle dog.

I don't want to see people being killed by dogs because their owners want to justify or pretend they are not dangerous though. The leap in logic is lost on me.

In the book I have the Terrier is classified as part of 'the Sporting group".
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Edit because I can't find the link. The AKC site is impossible for me to find anything on.

The Shepherd that bit me wasn't fickle, just old. She got snappy after her arthritis set in...doesn't make her any less dangerous than if she had been trained to bite. I don't believe that pits are dangerous. It's not pretending or justifying. I have seen "Good" breeds attack people, I have never seen a pit bull attack that didn't involve the individual dog being dangerous. Has nothing to do with the breed. IMO.
 
uh oh....
I'm "skeered" of this thread. There have been many prior threads about pit bulls that got very heated. I'm out of here...lol.:eek:
 
Woe.be.gone said:
Are you saying that you have not noticed any trends?
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Without feeling like a hypocrite, I can say that the trend I have noticed as it relates to pits, is that it's easier to make them dangerous. I don't think that they are dangerous due to breeding alone, but they do seem to hit their limits much sooner than other breeds. They definitely are not a dog for everyone, I have to admit that.
Bear in mind, for pits there is a media trend as well...it's called mass panic.
 
http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/breedinformation/

The book I mention above has the terrier as part of the Sporting group. I remembered that the Westminster Show had just taken place and there was a Pit Bull terrier (I think) in the finals. The list above does not put 'terrier' in either the working or sporting groups, just grouped as 'terriers'. :waitasec:

Interesting.

I found this, http://www.akc.org/breeds/bull_terrier/

American Kennel club - states the bull terrier was popular as a Sporting dog. Then, later says, "Terrier Group".
Terrier is a group of their own now?
 
I have owned several breeds of dogs, my preference is German Shepherd's, I would never own a pit bull. I did have a pit bull/basset hound mix once cutest thing I ever saw and the sweetest dog too.
I had to get rid of a Golden Ret. I had because I could not trust it around the kids and it grew up with them from a puppy. If I left the room for even a second that dog would bite them and the day I got rid of him he just about took my finger off had to have it stiched up.
Bad breeding is a problem. People get dogs and breed them up before waiting 2 years to see if there will be behavioral issues or medical all in the name of money... It is a huge problem. All dogs will bite if provoked but in my opinion Pit Bulls go further in an attack because they won't let up once provoked I've seen it first hand they do not give up until they die or whatever they are fighting gives up first.
Moo....
 
I have 3 Chihuahuas and my girl is about 20 lbs. Grown men are scared of her because she is very protective and threatening to people who she doesn't know coming in our house. I have to watch her with my 9 month old granddaughter because she will growl at her if she tries to pet her.
My next door neighbors have 5 dogs, one of whom is a Pitbull. I was leary of moving here because of that. The other dogs are all small Chihuahua mixes and he is very gentle with them so I figured he must be safe if he doesn't attack those dogs but we have a chain link fence between us and I do worry that he may somehow get over the fence and go after one of my dogs.
 
Bad breeding isn't the breed's fault, though. It is the fault of those breeding them. Irresponsible breeders/owners are what give a breed a bad name and not the breed itself, IMO. There is a difference. Yes they can be dangerous, but any dog can be dangerous in the hands of an irresponsible handler.

ETA: I agree that bad breeding is a problem and it's unfortunate that these beautiful animals are the ones that have to suffer because of it. It's even more unfortunate that human lives are lost because of greed and irresponsibility.
 
mikeysmommom said:
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/archive/2008/07/29/puppy-mauls-baby-left-in-swing.aspx

For example, this case: yesterday, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, a two-month-old boy was mauled to death by a six-week-old black labrador puppy.

It happens any dog even a puppy can kill.
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There is a lot more to that story, though. It happened almost 2 years ago, and LE believed the puppy (who was closer to 10-12 weeks old) was being starved, and the baby, whose parents are teens with serious issues and in jail last I saw, was left alone with it for a long time.

A starving (or even not starving) puppy left alone for hours with a crying newborn is an extreme exception to the rule of Lab behavior, and is incomparable to the situations and concerns people are having with PBs, etc, IMO.
 
Tizzle said:
Bad breeding isn't the breed's fault, though. It is the fault of those breeding them. Irresponsible breeders/owners are what give a breed a bad name and not the breed itself, IMO. There is a difference. Yes they can be dangerous, but any dog can be dangerous in the hands of an irresponsible handler.

ETA: I agree that bad breeding is a problem and it's unfortunate that these beautiful animals are the ones that have to suffer because of it. It's even more unfortunate that human lives are lost because of greed and irresponsibility.
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A big bottom line for me is this:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.
​

As I said in the PB thread, I'm not for banning them, but I do get frustrated with irresponsible owners and defenders who in defending them refuse to acknowledge the higher risks involved with certain breeds.

Pretending breeds like that are "just like any other breed" is pushing a fatally false sense of security that gets other pets, children, and adults killed. :(
 
I do acknowledge that the power these breeds have can be a danger and that they have different triggers than other breeds. But I feel that it is important to educate people on the dangers of irresponsible ownership of these dogs rather than just writing these breeds off as dangerous and banning them. Yes, they can be dangerous, when handled improperly. If a person doesn't have the ability to handle one properly, they shouldn't own one, or any dog, for that matter. These dogs become dangerous when in the wrong hands, they fall into the wrong hands when people only want them for their ability to overpower/dog fighting and their ability to initimidate. These are the wrong reasons for choosing one of these breeds.

It's a problem because too many people get dogs for the wrong reasons. It's a problem because too many people don't feel that animals deserve the same care that people do. It's a problem when people only want to own these dog because of the "cool factor" and then leave them chained/penned up. Dogs should be raised like one would raise a child, if you don't teach a child what they are supposed to know, they won't know. The same is true for dogs.
 
mikeysmommom said:
Why should people who are responsible owner's be denied to have an animal they want,But more importantly why should hundreds of thousands of beautiful animals have to be destroyed?Killing them all is not the answer IMO what makes more sense is if you are going to have 2 or more dogs of any Breed It should be a law you have to attend Responsible dog ownership classes.Because it seems a lot of owners lack common sense.Profiling a dog because of it's breed is asinine IMO and will not stop the problem.Labs have killed children , so have beagles, so have dachshunds,the list goes on and on.Should they all be exterminated?
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Why you ask!!!! This breed of dog are killers in my opinion! Perhaps, the owners were just as you posted responsible owners, however we have two people recently killed because of the killer dogs. Now do you want to trade place with either of the dead people????????
 
There is a difference in dogs who go to bite and dogs who go to kill. Most dogs bite and run or back away. Pits latch on and maul. I have seen it and it's awful. They are not Terriers any more than my Boston is a Terrier, LOL. They are a branch of the Bull Mastiff tree. They are naturally aggressive and strong (bred to bring down bulls!) and their owners often want to encourage this trait. Sadly there are so many breeders now days who know nothing about husbandry, and they do nothing to breed bad traits out. They just breed and sell, breed and sell because Pits are the latest fad. It is not their fault but Pit Bulls these days are dangerous dogs, and I agree with those who want to restrict their ownership. You can't own a tiger. You can't own a bear.
These stories are horrifying. And the stupidity of the owners is infuriating.
 
Tizzle said:
I do acknowledge that the power these breeds have can be a danger and that they have different triggers than other breeds. But I feel that it is important to educate people on the dangers of irresponsible ownership of these dogs rather than just writing these breeds off as dangerous and banning them. Yes, they can be dangerous, when handled improperly. If a person doesn't have the ability to handle one properly, they shouldn't own one, or any dog, for that matter. These dogs become dangerous when in the wrong hands, they fall into the wrong hands when people only want them for their ability to overpower/dog fighting and their ability to initimidate. These are the wrong reasons for choosing one of these breeds.

It's a problem because too many people get dogs for the wrong reasons. It's a problem because too many people don't feel that animals deserve the same care that people do. It's a problem when people only want to own these dog because of the "cool factor" and then leave them chained/penned up. Dogs should be raised like one would raise a child, if you don't teach a child what they are supposed to know, they won't know. The same is true for dogs.
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Very well said I totally agree.
 
RayStar said:
Why you ask!!!! This breed of dog are killers in my opinion! Perhaps, the owners were just as you posted responsible owners, however we have two people recently killed because of the killer dogs. Now do you want to trade place with either of the dead people????????
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If they were responsible owners ,you never would have read about them.The woman owned the 5 dogs she should have known better.The Mother who 's child died was not only a very irresponsible Mother she was a very irresponsible breeder.If she would have had locks on the kennel her daughter would still be alive.She not only penned these dogs but also had them chained ,she made them aggressive this is not the way these dogs should be kept.Right now they are looking into the safety of her other children even though they took all the dogs.I am very sorry that little girl died.When I reread the article It seems the child got caught up in the chains.
 
Certain breeds have been bred for aggression and fighting.

They tend to be more aggressive dogs. And they tend to make up most of the deaths when talking about dog attacks.

I can't count how many times I've heard people say..........that dog was a sweetheart- and then boom--that sweetheart escapes the yard or turns on the owner and/or children, killing someone.

I don't like pit bulls. I don't trust them. I don't want them anywhere around me or my children. Unfortunately, people have them........around children. Unfortunately, they sometimes get out. Unfortunately, the owners always think that their dog is different.

I like dogs but I don't like these and I never will.
 
Tizzle said:
I do acknowledge that the power these breeds have can be a danger and that they have different triggers than other breeds. But I feel that it is important to educate people on the dangers of irresponsible ownership of these dogs rather than just writing these breeds off as dangerous and banning them. Yes, they can be dangerous, when handled improperly. If a person doesn't have the ability to handle one properly, they shouldn't own one, or any dog, for that matter. These dogs become dangerous when in the wrong hands, they fall into the wrong hands when people only want them for their ability to overpower/dog fighting and their ability to initimidate. These are the wrong reasons for choosing one of these breeds.

It's a problem because too many people get dogs for the wrong reasons. It's a problem because too many people don't feel that animals deserve the same care that people do. It's a problem when people only want to own these dog because of the "cool factor" and then leave them chained/penned up. Dogs should be raised like one would raise a child, if you don't teach a child what they are supposed to know, they won't know. The same is true for dogs.
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I started to bold everything I agree with, but I agree with everything. Working with dogs all my life, I have been bitten or nipped, quite a few times and every time it was my own fault. The only bad bite was when I stupidly jumped in the middle of a fight to break it up and one of the dogs accidentally got my hand. I still have the scars and it's been 30 years. I knew better, I did it anyway, got chomped.
 
mikeysmommom said:
You are right, I had 5 Rottweilers never had a problem because I was leader of the pack and they knew it.People should not have more then 1 dog if they do not know how to train them.Also when people get into fights in front of dogs who love and protect their human family they will try to protect the smaller less threatening person.I wound up with 5 because I felt my first one Misty was such a terrific dog and brought us so much joy and was a perfect Rottie I wanted to breed her.Then i got her a husband lol , and she had 3 litters and i kept a puppy from each litter.Sadly they all are in doggy heaven and I just have 1 now.They all lived long happy lives and never bit anyone.If I didnt have a bad back and leg problems I would have mated my baby just to keep the line alive longer.
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I'd say you got lucky. Backyard breeding is the number one cause of ill health, and uneven temperment in dogs.
 
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