toddler, woman killed by pit bulls

[keeponsearching]

Wow what a tragic. I am so sad for these families. I wonder if they every study how to take care of all these dogs.
I usually steer clear of Pit threads since I have one. I think it depends on the breeder, When I got Chloe her mom and dad were on the scene the owner had the pups and parent roaming the yard with there own young children playing with them. Since then Chloe had grown up with children outside before I had kids. I now look back and am surprised first the parents to these young children at my apartment never watched there kids and second they were ok with them playing, petting a pit.
Years pass, people judge, I'm not saying they can't. I know have a 5 yr old and 2 yr old. My kids adore my dog, and same for chloe. BUT even though she is a great dog, I still watch them like a hawk with her.
Chloe is now 7. After reading that the popular pit passed away, I am sadden to think I only have a few more years.
Will I get another pit? Chloe doesn't bark, never bitten, I wish she would eat my cat most days, she protects me or supports me when I am alone. Nights my husband is late she really pays attention to the surrounding noises. When he is home she is zonked out.
I guess I don't even look at her as a dog. Because I am 100 percent sure she knows english. I probably won't get this lucky if I get another pit, and Im guessing no other dog would ever fill her place ever.
When I was three I was bitten in the face by a mix breed of some sort. Any dog can bite, some dogs just bite harder and it ends in death. A friend has these terriers they are white and fluffy, they have bitten a few people, I'm more afraid of them and all small dogs, especially poodles, then any big dog.

 

[PorcineGranny]

Terriers , although very active are not listed as mankillers. I have Chihuahuas that bite, but they can't take a person down.
It seems like so many cannot understand the difference in the pit bull and other breeds.Everyone on this thread wishes safety for others with their dogs. The fact is , Pit bulls have a running record of mauling and killing. To think that your personal treatment can overcome the negative here of why the dogs were initially bred is foolish.

 

[lizzybeth]

Thinking over the experience I had with the pit bulls across the street and reading these posts...it occurred to me that these were gentle dogs (or appeared to be every time I've seen them previously) until the man that lived there had to go away for a while. He was leader of the pack. When he spoke those dogs jumped to do whatever it was that he asked them to do. Now, it's just mom and the little girl. There's no leader of the pack. So, it's either they've become more aggressive because they feel the need to protect the mom and little girl or because the leader of the pack is gone, they have run amok. Maybe both.

I don't want to see the breed banned. If there were only a way to make owners have a license like they do with guns. Training, license, etc. These are dogs for responsible, experienced owners ONLY.

 

[kgeaux]

I took up for the pit bull in the pet thread, now I'm not so sure. My neighbors across the street have two. I've never had any problem with them and have even petted one while the owner was with me. Last week I went out to get my mail, and their three year old daughter had let the dogs out the front door. The both went for me. Luckily, I got in the house and shut the door before they hit the front porch. One banged her head against my front door. Both were growling and barking. I'm afraid to go out the front door now, much less let my dog out into our fenced backyard. These dogs were determined, and a three foot chain link fence isn't going to hold them back.

A chain link fence will not stop any determined dog......I've seen a doberman pincher climb a fence before! And a tree. I'm sorry to share this opinion with you, but a chain link fence IMO just defines a space, it offers no protection to the animals and children within it. It is see through, so ANY predator can spot its prey.....including pedophiles. It is easily breached, so the predator can get to its prey with relative ease....Although I know it is not comforting, you are right not to trust your fence to protect your dog.

You need to communicate with this neighbor. Let her know what happened, and that you will have to report the dogs if you ever see them running loose again. I'd suggest that perhaps they need a dead bolt up high on the front door, so that their three year old cannot open the door and release the dogs. In addition, I think I'd report this incident, just to get a paper trail going. Responsible owners contain their dogs. There should be no reason for you to fear walking to your own mailbox.

I own and love a pit bull. But people come first. end of story.

 

[lizzybeth]

Thanks kgeux. My son has told me the same thing. I'm usually right inside the door when my dog is let outside, but you're right, something could happen in an instant. I also have an area that's fenced in with a privacy fence so I guess that's where he'll have to go from now on. I preferred the chained link area because he could see the dog across the street and "talk" and people outside, etc.

I really hate to say something to the neighbor, but it looks like I'll have to do that. I was hoping to catch the grandma and talk with her. The mother is under a lot of stress and I hate to add to it. I'd hate worse if me, my dog, or anyone else was harmed by these dogs.

 

[impatientredhead]

How many people have to die before there is a federal law against owning these killers? OK, how about people just not owning any of these animals!

Supply and demand.

If you waived a magic wand and removed every pitbull from the planet someone would crossbreed and come up with a new breed to fulfill the demand of people who want aggressive dogs.

Breedban laws are just more placebo effect rulings that make people feel safer and do absolutely nothing at the end of the day to actually make people safer.

Irresponsible owners and irresponsible breeders will always create unstable and dangerous animals.

 

[kgeaux]

Thanks kgeux. My son has told me the same thing. I'm usually right inside the door when my dog is let outside, but you're right, something could happen in an instant. I also have an area that's fenced in with a privacy fence so I guess that's where he'll have to go from now on. I preferred the chained link area because he could see the dog across the street and "talk" and people outside, etc.

I really hate to say something to the neighbor, but it looks like I'll have to do that. I was hoping to catch the grandma and talk with her. The mother is under a lot of stress and I hate to add to it. I'd hate worse if me, my dog, or anyone else was harmed by these dogs.

OH, I am so glad to hear you've got an area that is privacy fenced! At least your dog will be safe while the situation is being dealt with. I know it is hard to talk to a neighbor about uncomfortable situations, especially since she is under stress. But I strongly encourage you to do so.......it might be a matter of life and death for somebody, plus it is troubling that the three year old was apparently alone with the dogs long enough to go to the front door and open it.......Grandma and Mommy might not even know she is opening the door on her own when they aren't around------

A 38-year-old Philadelphia woman was killed Saturday morning by her family’s pit bulls terriers, My Fox Philly reported - only hours before a toddler was killed in Florida, apparently by the same breed.

http://www.news.com.au/world/us-toddler-woman-killed-by-pit-bulls/story-e6frfkyi-1225832716560

The trouble with this article is that the toddler was killed by dogs identified as pitbulls, while the article also says: MyFox Orlando reported that a three-year-old girl was killed at her Ocala home Saturday (EST) - where her family operated a business called Haakers Dream Bulldog Ranch

Bulldogs and pits are two separate entities. So many types of dogs are mistaken for pits that it is unbelievable.......I am curious as to whether the dogs in question were indeed pits, or bulldogs.

 

[keeponsearching]

I guess a bunch of breeds can be called pitbulls, but they have a real name. Like labs, terriers and ect.. And the news never gets that straight. There is a website that has 26 dog pics, and it ask you to pick out the american pit bull terrier, took me 7 tries lol. And i have one.

When mine was a a year or so, I was so scared to have her outside all day, more afraid that someone would kidnap her and turn her into a fighting dog. We had a chain fence, and chain on her,and a lock on the fence. And after her 3rd escape from all that, she is now a inside dog.

 

[justthinkin]

Why should people who are responsible owner's be denied to have an animal they want,But more importantly why should hundreds of thousands of beautiful animals have to be destroyed?Killing them all is not the answer IMO what makes more sense is if you are going to have 2 or more dogs of any Breed It should be a law you have to attend Responsible dog ownership classes.Because it seems a lot of owners lack common sense.Profiling a dog because of it's breed is asinine IMO and will not stop the problem.Labs have killed children , so have beagles, so have dachshunds,the list goes on and on.Should they all be exterminated?

Why should responsible owners be denied to have an animal they want? Because the number of irresponsible pit owners far exceeds that of the responsible. There are high crime neighborhoods where pits are kept for protection by people that generally don't spend a lot of money on their pets, let alone learning how to handle such an animal either because they can't afford the expense or choose not to. Children and women are at riisk. The elderly are at risk. These dogs know the difference between a man, a woman, and a child, and it is usually the latter two that get attacked.

When human life is at stake, the dogs have got to go. Anyone supporting the ownership of Pits, is technically saying a few mauled or dead kids don't matter. It is far easier to pass a law against pit bull ownership than it would be to regulate owners of Pits. Even if people went to classes who is to say they would keep up with what they learned at such a class? And yes, I do know some are very fine animals and their owners are responsible, but it just doesn't make sense to perpetuate something that places innocent people at risk.

My little dog and I were charged on my property by a Pit Bull belonging to a visitor at a neighbor's house. My significant other was outside with us at the time, and he stood his ground while I scooped up my little Pom and dashed into the house. The Pit stopped short of taking on a man in this instance.

http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2009/08/mid-year-results-us-pit-bull-attacks.html
http://www.dogsbite.org/legislating-dogs.htm

 

[justthinkin]

German shepherds attack... a lot. But they are also service dogs, drug dogs...

As for groupings, the actual group for pit bulls is herder/work dog. So, should we put down all dogs raised for herding?

Pit Bulls belong to the terrier group. They are not classified as working dogs or herding dogs by AKC standards. There is no difference between a Pit Bull and an American Staffordshire Terrier, and a dog recognized as an AST can be classified as a Pit Bull by the UKC.

 

[impatientredhead]

Why should responsible owners be denied to have an animal they want? Because the number of irresponsible pit owners far exceeds that of the responsible. There are high crime neighborhoods where pits are kept for protection by people that generally don't spend a lot of money on their pets, let alone learning how to handle such an animal either because they can't afford the expense or choose not to. Children and women are at riisk. The elderly are at risk. These dogs know the difference between a man, a woman, and a child, and it is usually the latter two that get attacked.

When human life is at stake, the dogs have got to go. Anyone supporting the ownership of Pits, is technically saying a few mauled or dead kids don't matter. It is far easier to pass a law against pit bull ownership than it would be to regulate owners of Pits. Even if people went to classes who is to say they would keep up with what they learned at such a class? And yes, I do know some are very fine animals and their owners are responsible, but it just doesn't make sense to perpetuate something that places innocent people at risk.

My little dog and I were charged on my property by a Pit Bull belonging to a visitor at a neighbor's house. My significant other was outside with us at the time, and he stood his ground while I scooped up my little Pom and dashed into the house. The Pit stopped short of taking on a man in this instance.

http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2009/08/mid-year-results-us-pit-bull-attacks.html
http://www.dogsbite.org/legislating-dogs.htm

Having a dog offleash is already illegal.
Not having control of your dog is already illegal.
Having vicious animal is already illegal.

Enforce the laws that already exist with some real penalties involved in violating them.

Banning a breed (which most people cannot even correctly identify by the way) will accomplish nothing. Absolutely nothing.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

 

[Muffet]

I do think they should toughen the penalties for having any dog that harms either a human or their pet.

If people know they WILL go to prison if their dog seriously injures someone, or someone else's dog, then maybe they'll be less cavalier about things. :no:

 

[txsvicki]

Are half pit bulls considered by posters to be dangerous? I sort of inherited a half pit bull half pekinese. He's really a good dog and so easily trained to areas he can and can't go in my home, but I know without a doubt that he would bite anyone that he doesn't know if they walked unannounced into my home. I don't want to get rid of him but am now wondering if he'd be better off with another relative out in country where he could stay outside fenced in and still go inside alot which is what he enjoys.

 

[LoveMyDogs]

Of course this turned into a pit-bashing thread. In order to keep from being give a TO I will just say that I love all dogs, regardless of breed, noone will ever change my opinion of them. To the posters that are defending them on here, yall are fabulous and have better restraint than I do. :blushing:

My heart goes out to the families. The attacks could have been prevented.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I was having a conversation with my Mom a few weeks ago about this very subject (ie pitbulls). One of the sweetest dogs we ever had in our family was a pitbull/doberman pincer mix. I'll admit, she was scary looking to those who didn't know her. Imagine a pitbull body with dobie coloring. She was a fantastic dog. Sweet as could be and was more like a teddy bear than the vicious animal people assumed her to be. If any dog had an inherit likelihood to be vicious, it would have been her. Yet, she was the best dog we ever had in our lives. Many friends and family members have had pitts in their home and never once were these dogs dangerous or caused harm to any living creature.

I bring this up because I remember in the 70s all the fear of dobermans. Then in the 80s over rottweilers. Each decade or two we hear stories of dangerous dogs. One breed is singled out as the most vicious and dangerous. There was a big push to outlaw the keeping of these breeds back then as well. What I find the saddest is this breed is getting a really bad rap for the actions of a few. I agree with those who say pitbulls are more likely to cause serious damage if not trained/raised properly. The same can be said of any canine.

How many are out there that are just like my mixed pitt? That are good family dogs? I'm sorry but, I can't totally blame the breed itself when I've known too many to be loyal and gentle creatures. I believe what we are seeing is more an issue of irresponsible breeding and raising practices. I don't fault others for their fear though.

Many years later my DH and I adopted a Labrador. Supposed to be one of the best "family dogs". Had our son. Lab became more and more aggressive to our son despite our intervention. Ultimately, we sent him to live with a friend with no children. We did everything right with our Lab. His own temperament couldn't tolerate our son. So we did the right thing and removed the dog from our home to protect our child.

All of that being said, I'm really and truly sorry for this families loss. I truly am. It's also sad this breed continues to bare the brunt of what I feel boils down to irresponsible ownership and breeding practices.

 

[kgeaux]

Having a dog offleash is already illegal.
Not having control of your dog is already illegal.
Having vicious animal is already illegal.

Enforce the laws that already exist with some real penalties involved in violating them.

Banning a breed (which most people cannot even correctly identify by the way) will accomplish nothing. Absolutely nothing.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

I love that link! I have a pit, a lovely little guy named Ninja----and I couldn't find the pit in that link---until I tried for the SIXTEENTH time!!!! That means there were fifteen other breeds that I would wrongly have id'd as pits!

Of course up close and personal, some of the breeds I wrongly picked would be way too big for a pit if you were face to face with the dog, but it does point out the trouble people have identifying breeds.

Are half pit bulls considered by posters to be dangerous? I sort of inherited a half pit bull half pekinese. He's really a good dog and so easily trained to areas he can and can't go in my home, but I know without a doubt that he would bite anyone that he doesn't know if they walked unannounced into my home. I don't want to get rid of him but am now wondering if he'd be better off with another relative out in country where he could stay outside fenced in and still go inside alot which is what he enjoys.

Your dog sounds like what he really needs is to be socialized. My pit was exposed to so many people when he was a pup that he doesn't blink an eye when our door opens. What he does do is look at me......if I am ok with the person walking in, he is ok with it, too. I would take the dog to the vet, who can easily determine if the dog has an aggressive attitude, and if the dog is workable, I'd then go to "doggie obedience" school with him. He sounds like a very smart dog, so he can learn to listen to you about behaving around others, too! (a pekinese and pit mix? I hope Mommy was the pit!)

I've never known a pit that enjoyed being an "outdoor" dog.......they really love their families and want to be in the big middle of your life!

Of course this turned into a pit-bashing thread. In order to keep from being give a TO I will just say that I love all dogs, regardless of breed, noone will ever change my opinion of them. To the posters that are defending them on here, yall are fabulous and have better restraint than I do. :blushing:

My heart goes out to the families. The attacks could have been prevented.

I don't want to see any breed banned either. It is awful enough that humans allow habitat to be destroyed while they la-de-dah themselves through life, leading to the extinction of any species, but to deliberately wipe a breed off the face of the earth is beyond comprehension.

I wish I could remember the statistics, but the percentage of pits who attack humans is very small. It is the fact that they are tenacious and powerful enough to cause severe damage and death that makes them newsworthy......but the vast majority of pits NEVER even look cross-eyed at anyone.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I wish I could remember the statistics, but the percentage of pits who attack humans is very small. It is the fact that they are tenacious and powerful enough to cause severe damage and death that makes them newsworthy......but the vast majority of pits NEVER even look cross-eyed at anyone.

~ Respectfully snipped & BBM ~

I'm not sure if you were around then but the same exact issues were brought up in Doberman and Rottweiler attacks back in the 70s and 80s. Thirty-plus years later I have to wonder; what happened to all those vicious Dobermans and Rotts? My guess is... soon as the "cool" factor of owning one of these powerhouses wore off, they were being owned and cared for by responsible owners and not irresponsible people who could care less about the dog itself.

 

[impatientredhead]

I love that link! I have a pit, a lovely little guy named Ninja----and I couldn't find the pit in that link---until I tried for the SIXTEENTH time!!!! That means there were fifteen other breeds that I would wrongly have id'd as pits!

Of course up close and personal, some of the breeds I wrongly picked would be way too big for a pit if you were face to face with the dog, but it does point out the trouble people have identifying breeds.

Thanks. I do Malamute rescue and we are working on a similar page for wolf hybrids. People think it is a cool label and once a Malamute has that label attached to and ends up in the shelter it can be a death sentence. We have to do backflips to convince some of the shelters that it is just a plain old Malamute. Depending on the county it doesn't matter. The attorneys say if it was identified as a hybrid by the person dropping it off it is a hybrid and therefore will be destroyed.

I would imagine a HUGE percentage of the dogs in "pitbull" attacks, as labeled by the media or bystanders, are just muscular-short-haired dogs. Breed Ban Laws scare the crap out of me.

And yes it is easier to write a law that adds to the burden of responsible dog owners, but they are wholly ineffective. People with unstable unsafe offleash dogs are not going to abide by those rules anyway. They aren't abiding by the current laws. And insurance requirements do NOTHING to increase safety. Just puts a pricetag on the damage. Makes no sense to me at all.

 

[mysticrose]

Having a dog offleash is already illegal.
Not having control of your dog is already illegal.
Having vicious animal is already illegal.

Enforce the laws that already exist with some real penalties involved in violating them.

Banning a breed (which most people cannot even correctly identify by the way) will accomplish nothing. Absolutely nothing.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

Thanks for that link, it was enlightening. I can see how people would mix this up very easily, I got it on my second try but I have been around alot of pits my friend raised them for years.

 

[p7byrd]

We should be like Europe, and simply ban these animals.