Trial Discussion Thread #33 - 14.05.05 Day 26

[katydid23]

I thought this exchange was over the phone.

Are you certain security was outside and with a car at that point, whatever was said?

"Not everything was in order as Mr. Pistorius was telling me," Baba recalled saying to a fellow guard as they were outside the runner's villa in the pre-dawn hours of Valentine's Day last year.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Late...guard-testify-at-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial

 

[DebinGA]

I thought this exchange was over the phone.

Are you certain security was outside and with a car at that point, whatever was said?

IIRC Baba responded to neighbors calls re shots fired coming from OP's house. OP probably saw Baba's car pull up outside and called him to prevent his coming to the door, or if Baba called him from outside OP immediately answered and told him there was no problem in hopes he'd go away. I believe Baba stayed outside until the Standers arrived and they all went to the opened door and saw OP coming w/Reeva down the stairs. Stander then ordered Baba to remain outside.

 

[Karmady]

"Not everything was in order as Mr. Pistorius was telling me," Baba recalled saying to a fellow guard as they were outside the runner's villa in the pre-dawn hours of Valentine's Day last year.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Late...guard-testify-at-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial

I read that as they were outside his house sometime after others got there and that Baba was referring to the earlier phone call. Is that what you got from it?

 

[Greater Than]

I would also like to make note that OP claimed he called Stander first because he needed help lifting Reeva (before netcare allegedly told him to take her to the hospital himself, no less).

But Stander testified that he met OP when he moved into the community and OP came over to help him move furniture. So OP is capable of moving furniture by himself, but not a 120 lb woman?

In the end, OP picked her up on his own just fine. So we're left with WHY was the first phone call to Stander rather than netcare or the police. WHY WHY WHY

 

[shane13]

IIRC, it was Ms Stander, not Mr Stander who blocked Mr Baba from entering. Which she had no official or legal authority to do. Maybe Baba being security was CPR-trained? Yes, I know wouldn't have helped Reeva, but I wonder, as I've written, if the actions of those 2 were entiely legal if carefully examined, which I do not think Pros. wanted to do. moo

 

[shane13]

Hi everyone, newbie poster here!
was just watching Stipps account of that morning and he says that he asked Stander where the gun is.... Stander says he doesnt know but his daughter seemed to when OP went upstairs alone

Welcome!

 

[PPKik]

"Not everything was in order as Mr. Pistorius was telling me," Baba recalled saying to a fellow guard as they were outside the runner's villa in the pre-dawn hours of Valentine's Day last year.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Late...guard-testify-at-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial

"Oscar Pistorius told a concerned security guard on the phone that everything was 'fine' after neighbors reported gunshots coming from the athlete's house the night he shot dead his girlfriend, according to testimony in the South African murder trial Friday.

"The security guard, Pieter Baba, testified that Pistorius phoned him back moments after the initial brief conversation, but then started crying, didn't say anything and the line went dead. It was minutes after the double-amputee Olympian fatally shot Reeva Steenkamp, for which Pistorius is now on trial for murder.

" 'Not everything was in order as Mr. Pistorius was telling me,' Baba recalled saying to a fellow guard as they were outside the runner's villa in the pre-dawn hours of Valentine's Day last year."

I think we were talking about two different times. I was only talking about the first exchanges, which it seems were over the phone. I don't know what time Baba was outside OP's house, or at what stage, in relation to Mr. Stander's and Dr. Stipp's arriving.


ETA: Did Stander testify about Baba? I don't recall hearing him testify to telling Baba anything.

 

[Salsta]

Thanks Shane

 

[Fuskier]

Very strange Stander inferred they were acquaintances rather than good friends and yet was asked to Reeva's private memorial at "uncle Pistorius's" house.

Exactly!

 

[Fuskier]

Nel was asking him what Oscar said and he was starting to phrase it as if Oscar said he made a mistake, which is not true. Oscar told him that he shot Reeva, he thought she was an intruder. That is an intentional act, not a mistake.

And then when Nel cornered him on what he interpreted as a mistake, his answer was "the shots" were a mistake.

Right then and there, I knew this guy was in cahoots with Oscar. No way would he randomly say "the shots" were a mistake without some sort of prompting.

Exposed again!

 

[JudgeJudi]

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-trial-estate-manager-weeps-he-testifies

"“He was torn apart. Broken. Desperate. Pleading…. And his commitment to save the young lady’s life… How he begged her to stay with him, how he begged God to keep her alive,” Stander said, weeping...."

BBM;
Who talks like that instead of decribing what he saw?
That sounds rehearsed and disingenuous.
MOO

No mention of Reeva, just showing that OP is the victim.

 

[shane13]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-at-Pistorius-home-on-night-of-shooting.html


"He said police had been unconvinced by his response: “We were all asking ourselves how he could not have heard anything,” he said. "

Both sides won't call Frank who this Telegraph article says was staying on the ground floor that night.

Why won't both sides call him?

Because there apparently was another living person who knows what happened. And IMO his 'version' is not the same as either of the 2 sides. And both are happy to have him not state what he heard and knows...JMO

 

[Fuskier]

I know, right?!! We saw that picture of her head. She had brains in her hair

Did you notice that a few times Carice has mentioned that it was "dark". But yet her Dad testified it was plenty light to see relief on Oscar's face as he walked down the stairs.

YES, noticed this. Outstanding. Consistent with 'tailoring' IMO.

 

[minor4th]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-at-Pistorius-home-on-night-of-shooting.html


"He said police had been unconvinced by his response: “We were all asking ourselves how he could not have heard anything,” he said. "

Both sides won't call Frank who this Telegraph article says was staying on the ground floor that night.

Why won't both sides call him?

Because there apparently was another living person who knows what happened. And IMO his 'version' is not the same as either of the 2 sides. And both are happy to have him not state what he heard and knows...JMO

His version is that he didn't see or hear anything. So how can his testimony be helpful to either side?

 

[Val1]

i DO believe you're right!! Roux actually said that he thought the cross for those two was going to take all day. He didn't have them on them stand long so he absolutely thought Nel would be drilling them. Surprise!! "I have no more for this witness, M'lady" followed in quick succession by "I have no more for this witness, M'lady"

Roux was caught with his pants down and M'Lady was NOT happy about it.

All points for Nel!

Though just what Roux thought Nel could cross them on after Roux barely touched the surface of what they had to have knowledge of I dunno... isn't cross bound by what the lead opens?

 

[Fuskier]

It wasn't too dark for OP to walk around carrying Reeva.

Exactly!

 

[Fuskier]

the thing is, its two separate trips.. one he made while Stipp was there. ( the suicide run) . the other was when the paramedics were there asking for ID. )Stipp had gone home by the time the paramedics had arrived..


Now..Carise is there for BOTH of these trips. .. only mentions one. not the other..

Yes. Her role in all this is interesting IMO.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Interesting article about 'M'lady' from the New Yorker. If I were innocent, I'd be happy to have my fate in her hands. Guilty, not so much. Admirable woman IMO. Horrifying rape statistic in this BTW - knew it was bad, but every 17 seconds!

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2014/05/the-woman-who-will-judge-oscar-pistorius.html

What an informative article. Masipa gave a life sentence to a policeman who shot and killed his estranged wife in an argument over their divorce settlement. She said “You deserve to go to jail for life because you are not a protector. You are a killer”.

The last line of Reeva's whasapp message of 8 February said "I can't be attacked by outsiders for dating you and be attacked by you -- the one person I deserve protection from.

 

[Suthrnqt]

His version is that he didn't see or hear anything. So how can his testimony be helpful to either side?

Well, his 'version' is a bold faced lie, IMO. There is no way in he**(double hockey sticks) he didn't hear exactly what transpired that night, jmo.
Wondering if he had to sign a confidentiality agreement as a condition of his employment.
:dunno:
As one of my favorite WSers says,
"If there's hink, there's stink."
:moo: :moo: :moo:

 

[MsMarple]

Regarding Stander, he came to OP's defense in 2009 also:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-afr...r-1.459034?ot=inmsa.ArticlePrintPageLayout.ot

Police spokeswoman Marinda Stoltz said Pistorius had asked Memory to leave and slammed the door. A wooden panel then dislodged from the door and injured her leg. Memory laid a charge with the police, and he was arrested.

Pistorius spent the night at the Boschkop police station and was released the next day with a warning.

Frans Stander, the estate's general manager, this week spoke of his shock at the arrest.
"Oscar is the most decent man you will ever meet in your life. He treats everyone with so much respect and I have never received a complaint about him since his been living here, that's why I was shocked at what had happened," he said.

Estate security guards praised the Blade Runner for being down to earth and helping out whenever he could.

Stander added that although Pistorius had thrown numerous parties since he moved in, all of them had been peaceful.

"His parties are loved by everyone, even the old couples at the estate look forward to going to them."

When asked about the incident, Stander said Memory had probably been drunk.

"At parties, alcohol always flows freely, and Memory had a lot to drink. She hit a (stormwater) drain on her way out of the estate," he added.

The name quoted is Frans Stander, not Johan, but I think that's a typo.

I haven't found anything pointing to OP and Stander being best buddies - IIRC, when OP called him after shooting Reeva he had to look up the number in a telephone book (maybe one for the residents?) - but I believe Stander feels some loyalty to OP.