GUILTY OH - Barb Williams for child abuse, Hancock County, 2014

[Salem]

Yes. I'm sorry, I had intended to post it before.

You have to scroll a long way down, to a May 19 posting of an article, and then click on the "recent" replies instead of "most popular".

https://www.facebook.com/wtol11

I don't think I'm allowed to copy and paste the actual posting by a reader - but her first name is Brooklyn and she generated some discussion.

Thanks JeannaT. Here is a link to the actual story: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....78079846480.85651.64240976480&type=1&theater

That should take you right to it.

Salem

 

[Constance]

I don't know about anyone else, but my opinion on this situation and woman hasn't changed since reading comments from locals.

Bluster from teens and an exclusivist attitude (ie. you can't comment as you do not live here and so it doesn't concern you) doesn't impress me much. I know how small towns are. People tend to rally around each other out of some strange sense of local pride or loyalty. One of the spiels in defense of this teacher's actions even ended with a school pride slogan. I mean, seriously?!? It's like the old, "Nobody mistreats my sister but me!" joke. Except it's not funny.

There are cases where abusive parenst or other caregiver are defended by some victims when the abuse is reported by others. There are adults who were victimized as children who turn around and expose their own children to the abuser. That doesn't mean that they weren't abused, or that they somehow deserved the abuse.
No, my opinion hasn't changed one bit. All JMO.

 

[JeannaT]

I don't know about anyone else, but my opinion on this situation and woman hasn't changed since reading comments from locals.

Bluster from teens and an exclusivist attitude (ie. you can't comment as you do not live here and so it doesn't concern you) doesn't impress me much. I know how small towns are. People tend to rally around each other out of some strange sense of local pride or loyalty. One of the spiels in defense of this teacher's actions even ended with a school pride slogan. I mean, seriously?!? It's like the old, "Nobody mistreats my sister but me!" joke. Except it's not funny.

There are cases where abusive parenst or other caregiver are defended by some victims when the abuse is reported by others. There are adults who were victimized as children who turn around and expose their own children to the abuser. That doesn't mean that they weren't abused, or that they somehow deserved the abuse.
No, my opinion hasn't changed one bit. All JMO.

I don't think that comment had anything at all to do with "you have no right to post here if you don't live here", but rather, "there is another side of this story that isn't coming out in the media that might help make things clearer why this teacher hasn't been charged with assault and only received a 10 day suspension".

 

[gitana1]

Yes. I'm sorry, I had intended to post it before.

You have to scroll a long way down, to a May 19 posting of an article, and then click on the "recent" replies instead of "most popular".

https://www.facebook.com/wtol11

I don't think I'm allowed to copy and paste the actual posting by a reader - but her first name is Brooklyn and she generated some discussion.

I read the comments. That poster "Brooklyn" is not a parent and seems to believe this is simply normal and appropriate discipline. Nothing she says is relevant.

There are actual parents on there though who have more knowledge of the child and the teacher.

It seems there are two cases when assault can be charged: one, if the behavior is reckless and causes SERIOUS injury but was unintentional; and 2, when the behavior was intended to injure and did in fact, injure, even in a minor way. So coming up to someone and punching them in the face and leaving a bruise would certainly fall under #2, and throwing rocks in a park full of children that resulted in a child needing stitches would fall under #1.

I just don't see this incident meeting either of those criteria. If there were a charge for reckless behavior that resulted in minor, transitory bruising, then it would fit. I don't think it can be proven that her intent was to injure the child, and if you go with the reckless certainly a bruise couldn't be considered "serious" injury. Also, there is no provision under the assault charge for intimidation or psychological harm.

I think maybe Screecher had a point when she thought of harassment, but we REALLY don't want to go down that path of charging teachers with harassing students when they are in an ongoing behavior problem pattern. I can't imagine criminal charges flying around in elementary classrooms with boisterous students and frustrated teachers. Not everything need involve the court system.

No. That is not the law. In Ohio and elsewhere, intent has nothing to do with the crime of assault, in the manner you suggest:

"Under Ohio law, you don’t have to try to assault someone to face criminal charges. Yes, there is a criminal assault charge that doesn’t require any intent. You can also face fairly serious assault charges even when you don’t harm anyone.

While people commonly think of an “assault” as a fight or even a one-sided violent interaction—under the law, it’s not so simple.

Simple Assault
Simple assault is also referred to as “assault” or misdemeanor assault in Ohio courts. It can carry up to 6 months in jail and $1,000 in fines as a first degree misdemeanor. You may be charged with this offense if you:

Recklessly cause serious physical harm to another, or
Knowingly cause or attempt to cause physical harm to another.
This means that you can be charged with this assault offense even if you don’t intend to hurt anyone at all.

Ref: ORC 2903.13"
http://www.assaultandbattery.org/ohio/

Intentionally and knowingly are two completely different legal concepts. Intentionally means she wanted to cause the child harm. Knowingly means she knew what she was doing and/or that it might be harmful or was wrong or inappropriate:

"When the word "knowingly" is used , it means that the defendant realized what he was doing and was aware of the nature of his conduct and did not act through ignorance, mistake, or accident. Knowledge may be proved by the defendant's conduct and by all the facts and circumstances surrounding the case.[United States v. Kisting, 159 Fed. Appx. 725, 728 (7th Cir. Ill. 2005)]" http://definitions.uslegal.com/k/knowingly/

This woman knew what she was doing. She knew it could hurt the kid. Her conduct clearly fits assault.

That was a very interesting read.

More than one Riverdale parent weighed in with comments and examples.

All I'll say is that I'm more persuaded that this was a situation where a previously good employee "snapped", as opposed to a long term concealed pattern of abuse and bullying.

Snapped or not, BW was clearly in the wrong for what she did, and will continue to face consequences. She should be, and will be (IMO) fired, but I think there is a possibility she will be allowed to resign. The whole picture of the situation is becoming clearer to me.

I guess I'm beginning to change my mind about the implications for a civil suit against the school district, regardless of what happens to BW. I think a civil suit is inevitable, at this point. I thought it might be avoidable, but I'm beginning to doubt that. JMO.

I read the comments. Nothing has changed my mind. Any woman with her years of experience, as I stated days ago, has encountered multiple children with all sorts of behavioral issues. Educators are trained to deal with out of control kids, kids with behavioral problems, etc,. Without resorting to violence. It's possible this woman never harmed a child before but neither his conduct, his parents' conduct nor this woman's history mitigates what she did.

There were too many other options that I can list, besides assaulting a tiny child. And btw, I didn't see an out of control monster. I saw a kid going to the bathroom, without permission, who just stood there quietly and seemed scared as an adult three times his size, assaulted him.

He is the child. She is the adult and a trained one at that. No excuse and no mitigation.

In life, we are presented repeatedly with situations that test our limits. Our reactions to these moments define our character.

If we have a baby who has extreme colic or sensory integration disorder or some malady that causes her to scream incessantly, are we excused if we shake her in frustration and exhaustion?

If we have a parent with dementia, whose personality changes such that he spews vile hatred toward us and curses nonstop and is never satisfied, are we excused if we lash out and hit him?

No. Of course not. There are always options other then violence. This teacher had many other options. Instead, she chose to walk down the hall, seek this child out, and assault him.

There have to be consequences for such behavior in a civilized society, especially when such behavior occurs toward our most vulnerable populations- the disabled, the elderly and children.

The little boy in this case is innocent. No matter what. He is small and vulnerable and this woman was entrusted with his care. She made her choice and I hope she faces consequences more serious than a suspension, as a result.

 

[JeannaT]

The mother's facebook page. I hope it's okay to post it because it looks like she has written an open statement that she would like the public to hear. Looks like as in other forums, she's getting a lot of support from strangers across the US but feels unsupported in her community.

https://www.facebook.com/autumn.nelson.18

 

[blue22]

The mother's facebook page. I hope it's okay to post it because it looks like she has written an open statement that she would like the public to hear. Looks like as in other forums, she's getting a lot of support from strangers across the US but feels unsupported in her community.

https://www.facebook.com/autumn.nelson.18

This is actually VERY common. People don't want to believe that a "nice" teacher did this, or their child could have had it happen to them. Look what happens in a community when a priest, respected official, or well loved coach is first accused of molestation or some form of abuse. Often, the community rallies around them, and assumes the victim/families are liars. It happens a lot in communities. I've seen it happen in mine with a teacher who was groping young girls. People finally stopped being so crazy, when more evidence came to light. However, he still has supporters to this day!!

 

[JeannaT]

This is actually VERY common. People don't want to believe that a "nice" teacher did this, or their child could have had it happen to them. Look what happens in a community when a priest, respected official, or well loved coach is first accused of molestation or some form of abuse. Often, the community rallies around them, and assumes the victim/families are liars. It happens a lot in communities. I've seen it happen in mine with a teacher who was groping young girls. People finally stopped being so crazy, when more evidence came to light. However, he still has supporters to this day!!

Um hm. My women's group did a discussion study on "forgiveness" awhile back and this topic came up over and over and over. When someone everyone else loves does something cruel to you or your child it's SO HURTFUL.

When you think about it, if there is a teacher or community member that everyone thinks is an unpredictable whacko, and then your kid is the target, you get over it almost immediately. It's almost funny, actually, a story you can share and laugh about one more thing that crazy person did and everybody joins in with empathy.

But when someone wrongs you that everyone else likes and has had a wonderful experience with, it's terribly isolating. Especially if they continue to say well she was the best teacher we ever had, we love her.

And I do think there are two different dynamics - sometimes innumerable people are harmed by one person who is otherwise thought to be respectable but once the story breaks the floodgates open and everyone realizes what that person was all along. It becomes pretty obvious that person was targeting a LOT of people and had thus gotten away with it.

In cases like BW, in my opinion, that's not what's happening. The community is already predisposed to anger at this child, and when BW's treatment of this boy is seen - even on video - those who are close to the situation take BW's side.

I do feel for the parents. I think Ian would have gotten over this with no problem had it not been so magnified - but I don't think his parents ever will. I suspect they'll move out of the community soon and try to start over and will never heal from how the community as a whole turned against them and sided with a teacher when on video the small child is clearly being assaulted.

 

[blue22]

Um hm. My women's group did a discussion study on "forgiveness" awhile back and this topic came up over and over and over. When someone everyone else loves does something cruel to you or your child it's SO HURTFUL.

When you think about it, if there is a teacher or community member that everyone thinks is an unpredictable whacko, and then your kid is the target, you get over it almost immediately. It's almost funny, actually, a story you can share and laugh about one more thing that crazy person did and everybody joins in with empathy.

When someone wrongs you that everyone else likes and has had a wonderful experience with, it's terribly isolating.

But I do think there are two different dynamics - sometimes innumerable people are harmed by one person who is otherwise thought to be respectable but once the story breaks the floodgates open and everyone realizes what that person was all along. It becomes pretty obvious that person was targeting a LOT of people and had thus gotten away with it.

In cases like BW, in my opinion, that's not what's happening. The community is already predisposed to anger at this child, and when BW's treatment of this boy is seen - even on video - those who are close to the situation take her side.

I do feel for the parents. I think Ian would have gotten over this with no problem had it not been so magnified - but I don't think his parents ever will. I suspect they'll move out of the community soon and try to start over.

I have not seen a single comment about someone who personally knew or worked with this child. I have seen comments from people who know the teacher and have "heard" about the child, or "knew someone" who had experience with the child. I am very slow to ever believe comments like this. Unfounded gossip is typically spread as fact without question.

 

[JeannaT]

I have not seen a single comment about someone who personally knew or worked with this child. I have seen comments from people who know the teacher and have "heard" about the child, or "knew someone" who had experience with the child. I am very slow to ever believe comments like this. Unfounded gossip is typically spread as fact without question.

I've spent some time noodling around on facebook going from page to page of people who "like" comments, and I've seen first-hand information. I know we're not allowed to post sleuthing of minors and people not named in public media so it's not appropriate to post those pages here, but I do think if they do end up firing BW the school district will face a lawsuit based on the fact that she didn't receive the help she was legally entitled to in that school.

Speaking in general terms and not specific to this child, children with serious histories of violence and disruption need another setting so the class year can go smoothly for all children in the room.

 

[janx]

I can't understand how we are still discussing the child's behavior/issues/parenting. IMO it has the same importance as, say, what the weather was like that day. A small child's behavior has no bearing on a teacher's responsibility to NOT physically manhandle the child. It has no bearing on her responsibility to NOT purposefully terrorize him by threatening to tear him apart.

Who treats a small child this way?

An abuser.

The content of that video speaks only to her behavior. It says nothing about his. And really, there is nothing he could have done to make her actions ok.

His behavior doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

MOO etc.

To an extent I think it does matter, but only in the sense that there's evidence of trouble back before November, and that trouble should have been taken more seriously. We don't know what the problems were. And I am in no way defending this teacher. She clearly shoved the kid up against a wall and then lifted him off of the ground by his shirt collar--not to mention the horrible things she said to him. What a monster.

 

[human]

Believe me, I AM NOT defending this teacher.

Caregivers burn out. People feel guilty because they are burned out from taking care of others. I read about it all of the time.

People seem to think we need to be loving 24/7 no matter how trying the circumstances are. Otherwise, you are a bad person.

Well, I say people need support . They need respite.

It is too bad that teachers, nurses, other caregivers are supposed to give it their all without any support.

That has to change.

 

[Flutterby80]

Support? What sort of support should have been offered that would have changed this situation? This teacher was not responding to some immediate, overwhelmingly dangerous classroom situation with a knee-jerk loss of momentary control. She assaulted a small child who was alone and not presenting any danger to anyone. She threatened to TEAR HIM APART. Oh my god! What a sick, nasty thing to say to a small child.

Isn't it possible that she is just a mean old witch with a strong dislike of this particular little boy? Maybe she was having a bad day. Who knows? Sometimes people are just mean.

 

[blue22]

Believe me, I AM NOT defending this teacher.

Caregivers burn out. People feel guilty because they are burned out from taking care of others. I read about it all of the time.

People seem to think we need to be loving 24/7 no matter how trying the circumstances are. Otherwise, you are a bad person.

Well, I say people need support . They need respite.

It is too bad that teachers, nurses, other caregivers are supposed to give it their all without any support.

That has to change.

No support?

Have you ever worked in a school? They don't do it without support, unless they CHOOSE to. If someone is "burnt out" it's their responsibility to admit it and do something about it. It's not up to someone else. She is a full grown adult.

 

[JeannaT]

No support?

Have you ever worked in a school? They don't do it without support, unless they CHOOSE to. If someone is "burnt out" it's their responsibility to admit it and do something about it. It's not up to someone else. She is a full grown adult.

It appears that she asked for support (in the form of an aid, etc.) and wasn't given that and really had to do this by herself, even using her planning period to once again track down a child. It seems - from what I've read - that BW asked for support numerous times and didn't receive it.

Finally, as we know, in May an IEP was scheduled. As others have noted that's a very unusual time to schedule an IEP, and should have probably been done back in December when it was warranted.

 

[human]

No support?

Have you ever worked in a school? They don't do it without support, unless they CHOOSE to. If someone is "burnt out" it's their responsibility to admit it and do something about it. It's not up to someone else. She is a full grown adult.

I only was a teacher for a mere thirty years.

Thank goodness nothing happened in those years, but many of the last few were filled with anxiety as children came to school with more and more issues and less money for the schools.

Special services are incredibly expensive and school districts are pinched for funds. As a teacher, you can ask for help and not get it.

I have not met many saints in my life. What the teacher did was wrong, of course, but it is hypocritical of people saying they would never do something like that.

Maybe not that, but I see people doing things on the highways and people yelling at sales clerks and people yelling at coaches and their own kids at games. I see them allowing their kids to do all kinds of things in order to be popular. I see parents excluding kids from birthday parties. Those things hurt.

 

[gitana1]

I only was a teacher for a mere thirty years.

Thank goodness nothing happened in those years, but many of the last few were filled with anxiety as children came to school with more and more issues and less money for the schools.

Special services are incredibly expensive and school districts are pinched for funds. As a teacher, you can ask for help and not get it.

I have not met many saints in my life. What the teacher did was wrong, of course, but it is hypocritical of people saying they would never do something like that.

Maybe not that, but I see people doing things on the highways and people yelling at sales clerks and people yelling at coaches and their own kids at games. I see them allowing their kids to do all kinds of things in order to be popular. I see parents excluding kids from birthday parties. Those things hurt.

You are right that things have gotten worse. I think mainstreaming is part of the problem (although I understand the concept and agree with it in principle). With mainstreaming, things have gotten very hard for some teachers. My old boss, his wife (who I went to grade school with), worked first or second grade. She co-taught. They had a student who had autism, or something, and was totally out of control - just running all around the room, causing havoc, making it impossible to teach or learn. The parents refused to place him in a more specialized class.

Well, my bosses' wife had a breakdown. She simply stopped sleeping. She couldn't sleep for a week. She was hospitalized. They gave her every med imaginable. It took days to knock her out. It was all because of that one student (so she said).

But I note...she never hurt any child. And I refuse to state that I could ever do something like that. I'm no hypocrite. Not everyone is so mentally ill or unable to control themselves that they resort to child abuse.

It is possible to:
1. Walk away.
2. Call your boss and say you need help now or you are going to quit.
3. Run into another teacher's room and say you have an emergency.
4. Call the school counselor or security and say you have an emergency.
5. As an on-going solution, go to a psychologist who can diagnose you with depression or anxiety as a result of the student and demand that he be removed or you will go on disability...or sue.

Etc.

Not everyone is on the edge of child abuse or can be pushed there. If we agree that it is hypocritical to say we would never do something like that, how about not being able to say we would never shake a crying newborn, or hit an elderly person, or beat a toddler to death? "Snapping" is no excuse. Stress is no excuse. An insane, out of control child is no excuse. There is simply no excuse for child abuse.

If at 19 years of age, and being an impatient perso0n, I didn't come close to "snapping" and harming a student of mine, despite dealing with a couple of (in retrospect) seriously disturbed kids, how can I excuse a 30 year veteran?

I call b.s. on that.

 

[JeannaT]

Support? What sort of support should have been offered that would have changed this situation? This teacher was not responding to some immediate, overwhelmingly dangerous classroom situation with a knee-jerk loss of momentary control. She assaulted a small child who was alone and not presenting any danger to anyone. She threatened to TEAR HIM APART. Oh my god! What a sick, nasty thing to say to a small child.

Isn't it possible that she is just a mean old witch with a strong dislike of this particular little boy? Maybe she was having a bad day. Who knows? Sometimes people are just mean.

I think it's possible that she is a kindly, sweet, grandmotherly kindergarten teacher with a stellar reputation who developed a strong dislike of this particular little boy. And she very nearly got through the end of the year without acting on her feelings.

I don't understand - at all - why people after viewing that video are unable to process what seems to be the truth laid out in facts. That she had a very very long history of being a sweet kindergarten teacher who treated the students with love and kindness. So much so that one parent asked her children not to be placed in BW's class as she was too nurturing and not strict enough with rules.

Why are some opinions so black and white? It seems to me that prior to this, her interactions were sweet and loving, and then she snapped after a year of a very very challenging situation.

Why do you think THERE. THAT's her true nature! That, right there, that 15 seconds, THAT'S her nature!!

That's not her nature. The 14 years prior is her nature. This is a true anomaly, something opposite her true nature.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think it's possible that she is a kindly, sweet, grandmotherly kindergarten teacher with a stellar reputation who developed a strong dislike of this particular little boy. And she very nearly got through the end of the year without acting on her feelings.

I don't understand - at all - why people after viewing that video are unable to process what seems to be the truth laid out in facts. That she had a very very long history of being a sweet kindergarten teacher who treated the students with love and kindness. So much so that one parent asked her children not to be placed in BW's class as she was too nurturing and not strict enough with rules.

Why are some opinions so black and white? It seems to me that prior to this, her interactions were sweet and loving, and then she snapped after a year of a very very challenging situation.

Why do you think THERE. THAT's her true nature! That, right there, that 15 seconds, THAT'S her nature!!

That's not her nature. The 14 years prior is her nature. This is a true anomaly, something opposite her true nature.

I'm still left wondering how she behaved when there were no cameras.

In her nature or not, it's 100% inexcusable.

A very challenging situation? The child walked out of the bathroom he wasn't kicking her in the shins repeatedly and spitting in her face everyday. He's annoying, I get it. So what? She has years of education and experience and was overwhelmed by a single 5 year old? I don't buy it.

He is 5 years old. I would have been thrilled he did not urinate on the floor of the classroom and seen it as a positive step in curbing that behavior...





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[Linda7NJ]

He did defiantly pee his pants, many times, and no one broke his limbs. I just hope next year goes better for him, and he's able to adjust to the structure of public school.

I don't know if you were here for the Kyron Horman missing persons case, but let me tell you, posters climbed up the spine of school teachers and administrators for not knowing where Kyron was once he entered the school.

I don't know how many dealings you've had with public school, but it is REALLY a big deal if a child chronically goes missing and the teacher responsible at the time has missed that the child has wandered off and has to be found again.

The psychological damage done to this child, at the hands of this "teacher" is going to be devastating. Especially at this young age, his experience in kindergarten was critical...
Breaks my heart....

All IMO


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[JeannaT]

The psychological damage done to this child, at the hands of this "teacher" is going to be devastating. Especially at this young age, his experience in kindergarten was critical...
Breaks my heart....

All IMO


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I'm going to toss this out here, because I think it might be illuminating.

Is there anyone in this conversation, on this board, who hasn't been subjected to worse treatment at the hands of a supervising adult than that? Is there anyone who hasn't been yanked up, and had their face yelled in, for poor behavior in school or other locations?

Is there anyone on this board, also, who hasn't witnessed a scene worse than that between a parent/grandparent/child in a disciplinary interaction? Where, at the time, people look away because this is something you do see sometimes?

(Again, I want to say that the popping of the neck could have been very injurious. Thank goodness it wasn't).