Ebola outbreak - general thread #5

[Gardenlady]

Uhm, if we are going to accept infowars and CNS as reputable sources, then we might as well all don our tinfoil hats now.

Seriously, let's vet our sources a little bit better. There's enough worry and undercurrents of conspiracy theories without adding the likes of Alex Jones' outfit to the noise. hoh:


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[Lyra500]

There are quite a few articles about people wanting to flee Ebola outbreak areas.

"Liberians are apparently flooding Roberts International Airport in Harbel, Liberia, in an attempt to flee the Ebola-struck country, raising fears that more people infected with Ebola will fly into America. Thomas Eric Duncan, the 40-year-old Liberian national who was diagnosed with Ebola a few days after arriving in Dallas, Texas, may have started a trend of “Ebola tourism” in which Liberians leave their country to seek better treatment for the disease."

http://www.infowars.com/report-liberians-flood-airport-attempting-to-flee-ebola-struck-country/

Infowars is a website produced by Alex Jones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_(radio_host)

Jones has been the center of many controversies, including his controversial statements about gun control in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.[8] He has accused the US government of being involved in the Oklahoma City bombing,[9] the September 11 attacks[10] and the filming of fake Moon landings to hide NASA's secret technology

"Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, commander of the U.S. Southern Command, predicted last week that the Ebola virus will not be contained in West Africa, and if infected people flee those countries and spread the disease to Central and South America, it could cause “mass migration into the United States” of those seeking treatment.

“If it breaks out, it’s literally, ‘Katie bar the door,’ and there will be mass migration into the United States,” Kelly said in remarks to the National Defense University on Tuesday. “They will run away from Ebola, or if they suspect they are infected, they will try to get to the United States for treatment."

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pen...tial-ebola-driven-mass-migration-south-border

The section above is speculation about what might happen if Ebola got to Central and South America and what people in South America would do. It therefore has nothing to do with West Africans and what they are or might be doing.

"Individuals who have flown recently from one or more of the affected countries suggested that travelers could easily subvert the screening procedures — and might have incentive to do so: Compared with the depleted medical resources in the West African countries of Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea, the prospect of hospital care in the U.S. may offer an Ebola-exposed person the only chance to survive.

The deteriorating conditions in Africa make it more likely additional cases of Ebola will appear in the United States and officials are pushing for increased screenings at airports.

A person could pass body temperature checks performed at the airports by taking ibuprofen or any common analgesic. And prospective passengers have much to fear from identifying themselves as sick, said Kim Beer, a resident of Freetown, the capital of Sierra Leone, who is working to get medical supplies into the country to cope with Ebola.

"It is highly unlikely that someone would acknowledge having a fever, or simply feeling unwell," Beer said via email. "Not only will they probably not get on the flight — they may even be taken to/required to go to a 'holding facility' where they would have to stay for days until it is confirmed that it is not caused by Ebola. That is just about the last place one would want to go."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1

Once again, the section above is pure speculation - I have bolded the speculative sections.

So I don't think any of the above justifies the statement that it appears people with Ebola are doing everything possible to get to a westernised country.

 

[dotr]

On the front lines..

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-life-death-on-frontline-liberia-sierra-leone

"West Africa is battling the biggest known outbreak of Ebola, with experts predicting there could be 1.4 million cases by January. Three nurses who volunteered to help fight the virus in Liberia and Sierra Leone, the worst-affected countries, describe the daily horror"

 

[animlzrule]

Muffet, why was there surprise and dismay when Frieden was appointed? Who appointed him? I know nothing about him, and your post sparked my curiosity. Thanks!

Not Muffet, but his CV is pretty impressive. It seems as though Ebola should be right up his alley. Opposition must be largely political......

Frieden's work on tuberculosis in New York fostered public awareness and helped improve public funding (city, state and federal) for TB control.[3][4] The epidemic was controlled rapidly, reducing overall incidence by nearly half and cutting multidrug-resistant tuberculosis by 80%.[5] The city's program became a model for tuberculosis control.[6][7] From 1996 to 2002, Frieden was based in India, assisting with national tuberculosis control efforts. As a medical officer for the World Health Organization on loan from the CDC, he helped the government of India implement the Revised National Tuberculosis Control Program (RNTCP).[8][9][10][11] The 2008 RNTCP status report estimates the nationwide program resulted in 8 million treatments and 1.4 million saved lives.[12] While in India, Frieden worked to establish a network of Indian physicians to help India's state and local governments implement the program[13] and helped the Tuberculosis Research Center in Chennai, India, establish a program to monitor the impact of tuberculosis control services. Much more at link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Frieden

 

[SweetT]

"Johannesburg-based members of the immigrant communities from Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea, told the newspaper that there is a considerable number of people attempting to reach SA, most trying to reach it overland - a 5 000km trek.

One man said he alone knew of at least five people who were on their way."

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/West-Africans-flee-Ebola-head-to-SA-20141012

By foot they'd be dead by the time they got there.. By car would be a long drive.. Probably a week

 

[Lyra500]

On the front lines..

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-life-death-on-frontline-liberia-sierra-leone

"West Africa is battling the biggest known outbreak of Ebola, with experts predicting there could be 1.4 million cases by January. Three nurses who volunteered to help fight the virus in Liberia and Sierra Leone, the worst-affected countries, describe the daily horror"

Thank you for the link.

Excellent article.

A friend of ours is volunteering - I am so afraid for him but so proud of him too.


This part made me sad for those who are contributing to the fight against Ebola:

I am worried about the backlash against healthcare workers who are responding to the crisis in West Africa. I have heard media reports calling for people such as me who have been treating Ebola patients to be quarantined for 21 or even 42 days. These ideas are not based on the medical facts. People only need to be quarantined if they are showing symptoms and if you do not have a fever, there is no risk of you transmitting Ebola to someone. We work really hard here, the hours are long and the work is physically and emotionally tiring. When we get time off every six weeks, I would like to think I can travel anywhere I want to but I suspect we are reaching a situation where I am not going to be welcome in many places.

This part is so very sad:

Hannah (not her real name) is sitting outside, greeting us with a big smile. She has lost all her children to Ebola as well as her husband. And here she is asking me how my evening was. The staff tell me she has had some bad moments, but all they can do is reassure her that she is young and can bear more children.

There is a really good section describing the disrobing process which I thought was interesting reading given the various CDC posters and video demonstrations we have discussed and shared.

A minimum of five minutes is needed to undress. We have two tents, where the undressers and sprayers need to be on the ball. The urge to just pull the suit off is strong, but we wait. First, the chlorine spray to the hands. Then, feet apart, arms in the air, we are sprayed from head to toe, first the front, then the back. We wash our hands in 0.5% chlorine. Off come the first set of gloves.

We wash our hands again. Off comes the apron and hopefully it was tied perfectly, as we have to blindly reach around to release the knot; we pull it over our heads. Into the chlorine soak it goes. We wash our hands.

Next go the goggles. We bend over, close our eyes and gently remove them, dunk them three times in the strong chlorine-filled bucket, and then place them in water. We wash our hands.

The hood comes off next. Once again, we bend over, closing our eyes to avoid contamination and dispose of the hood in the garbage. We wash our hands.

Next, the removal of our heavy PPE. Moving slowly – we do everything slowly here – we carefully expose the zipper, hidden under a taped-down flap. We wash our hands. Blindly, we have to find the zipper, as our undressers and sprayers guide us. We wash our hands.

As we shimmy out of our PPE, we are soaked to the bone in sweat, but it feels great. This is the hardest part: to ease off the jumpsuit while kicking your legs back, at the same time standing on it so it doesn’t fly away from you. It’s a balancing act. The sprayer sprays the entire jumpsuit with a stronger chlorine solution and we put it in the garbage. We wash our hands.

Our heavy-duty filtration mask is next. I close my eyes and hope it doesn’t catch in my ponytail. We wash our hands.

The last pair of gloves comes off. Our boots are sprayed from all angles and we have to balance on one foot to cross the line from high risk to low risk. We wash our hands and we are done, stripped down to our scrubs, soaked with sweat.

 

[Elley Mae]

<modsnip>

http://news.usni.org/2014/10/07/sou...reak-central-america-haiti-nightmare-scenario

Glad to see he is speaking of it, down the road it can't be said it wasn't said.

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The head of U.S. Southern Command (SOUTHCOM) warned an Ebola outbreak in Central America or the Caribbean could trigger a mass migration to the U.S. of people fleeing the disease and implied established Central American illegal trafficking networks could introduce the infected into the U.S., during remarks at a Tuesday panel on security issues in the Western Hemisphere at the National Defense University.

So glad someone (commander of U.S. Southern Command) is looking ahead and talking out loud about a potential problem.

 

[SweetT]

http://news.usni.org/2014/10/07/sou...reak-central-america-haiti-nightmare-scenario

Glad to see he is speaking of it, down the road it can't be said it wasn't said.

WASHINGTON, D.C. &#8212; The head of U.S. Southern Command (SOUTHCOM) warned an Ebola outbreak in Central America or the Caribbean could trigger a mass migration to the U.S. of people fleeing the disease and implied established Central American illegal trafficking networks could introduce the infected into the U.S., during remarks at a Tuesday panel on security issues in the Western Hemisphere at the National Defense University.

So glad someone (commander of U.S. Southern Command) is looking ahead and talking out loud about a potential problem.

Aren't those people dealing with chukynuga? Spelling? The mosquito thing in central and South America right now? It's really bad from what I've read.

 

[oh_gal]

holy moly. i sure hope we aren't going to sink to the level of arguing about where the incinerated waste goes. seriously?

If I lived in Louisiana, I'd legitimately want to know the same thing. No argument -- it seems like a valid question.

 

[faw720]

Wow. The fifteenth best hospital in Texas.

Top job!

Please give me a link where I can find hospital rankings. TIA

 

[Lyra500]

Is there a blog?

 

[Isabelle]

holy moly. i sure hope we aren't going to sink to the level of arguing about where the incinerated waste goes. seriously?

As a resident of Louisiana you bet I will sink to that level. Louisiana will not be a dumping ground for trash/garbage from another state. What is wrong in Texas?

 

[SCHMAE]

I don't see , once it's incinerated, why it matters where it goes. Is incineration not enough to KILL ebola virus? If not, I think we need to know that.

 

[Lyra500]

Please give me a link where I can find hospital rankings. TIA

I do not have a link - the ranking came from the article in the post I was responding to which is here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...g-treated-at-the-15th-best-hospital-in-texas/

This article has a further link: http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/tx/texas-health-presbyterian-hospital-6741050

That article contains this:

Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital

Overview
Rankings
Patient Satisfaction
Stats & Services
Doctors



Ranked #15 in Texas

Recognized in Praries and Lakes

Ranked #5 in Dallas metro area

Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital is a general medical and surgical hospital in Dallas, TX. It performed nearly at the level of nationally ranked U.S. News Best Hospitals in 7 adult specialties, as shown below. Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital has 609 beds. The hospital had 27,244 admissions in the latest year for which data are available. It performed 7,069 annual inpatient and 5,826 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 83,566 visits. It is also accredited by the Commission on Accreditation of Rehabilitation Facilities (CARF).

 

[Sonya610]

How can someone be sprayed with disinfectant from head to toe if they are not wearing a full body suit (like we have seen in Africa)?
I don't think it's possible. So I don't think they were sprayed upon exiting the room.

Not sure if this has been addessed but.....

Read somewhere today that most hospitals do not even HAVE rooms to accommodate spraying/disinfecting the suits before removal. They can't spray themselves down unlike the CDC folks because typically there is nothing set up for that (i.e. can't step out into the hall and do it, or run down the hall to user another room's shower etc... without tracking germs everywhere).

Then someone else was saying they work in construction and some jobs (i.e. asbestos removal) require full PPE suites with respirators etc....and the workers ARE decontaminated and sprayed down in a special temporary "shower rooms" before removing their gear. Construction companies bring in PORTABLE showers and use tons of plastic to create temporary and secure shower rooms in whatever building they happen to be working in.

Yet the hospitals can't or won't do this??? Another note if you read the CDC guidelines (that do NOT specify suit disinfection probably because it isn't happening in most hospitals) the instructions DO say to keep disinfecting your gloves every step of the way (i.e. remove first set of gloves, disinfect hands, remove outer suit, disinfect hands, remove mask and disinfect hands, etc....) which is not at all what we saw on the EMT instruction video yesterday.

 

[faw720]

I do not have a link - the ranking came from the article in the post I was responding to which is here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...g-treated-at-the-15th-best-hospital-in-texas/

This article has a further link: http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/tx/texas-health-presbyterian-hospital-6741050

That article contains this:

Thanks! It was only my 'nosey self' being curious.

 

[popsicle]

A local clinic is evaluating whether a patient who had recently traveled to West Africa and appeared at clinic offices in Richmond Monday is at risk of Ebola infection.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/richmo...cle_cb28d73a-5320-11e4-97f5-0017a43b2370.html

 

[SCHMAE]

A local clinic is evaluating whether a patient who had recently traveled to West Africa and appeared at clinic offices in Richmond Monday is at risk of Ebola infection.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/richmo...cle_cb28d73a-5320-11e4-97f5-0017a43b2370.html

Richmond, VA? tia

ETA Never mind. Saw it in tiny print at top of the page, Richmond, VA

 

[jjenny]

Not sure if this has been addessed but.....

Read somewhere today that most hospitals do not even HAVE rooms to accommodate spraying/disinfecting the suits before removal. They can't spray themselves down unlike the CDC folks because typically there is nothing set up for that (i.e. can't step out into the hall and do it, or run down the hall to user another room's shower etc... without tracking germs everywhere).

Then someone else was saying they work in construction and some jobs (i.e. asbestos removal) require full PPE suites with respirators etc....and the workers ARE decontaminated and sprayed down in a special temporary "shower rooms" before removing their gear. Construction companies bring in PORTABLE showers and use tons of plastic to create temporary and secure shower rooms in whatever building they happen to be working in.

Yet the hospitals can't or won't do this??? Another note if you read the CDC guidelines (that do NOT specify suit disinfection probably because it isn't happening in most hospitals) the instructions DO say to keep disinfecting your gloves every step of the way (i.e. remove first set of gloves, disinfect hands, remove outer suit, disinfect hands, remove mask and disinfect hands, etc....) which is not at all what we saw on the EMT instruction video yesterday.

That explains a lot, doesn't it? I think cdc set out these guidelines because regular hospitals can follow them. But our regular hospitals are clearly not equipped to handle Ebola patients.
First patient was in the regular hospital and right from the start we have a problem.
And CDC thinks more nurses/doctors could have been infected (since they all followed the same protocols).

 

[beach]

Is there a blog?

I removed the link in question.

Mod Note:
Guys, particularly re. this discussion, please DO NOT post blog links unless they have been mod approved. I did review the blog link in the post I removed. Not only the blog linked, but reviewed the site as a whole. Much of it was not substantiated by fact or supporting links. This situation is serious enough without spreading any rumors that could incite mass hysteria.

Thanks for keeping this in mind and cooperating.