GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #4

[webnut]

I don't believe all body parts were found in one place, also a vital part was missing but was eventually found and id could take place. Pretty sure dental records would be used to id Becky rather than her father doing it in that situation. All MOO


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[Beesknees]

I'm not sure. When the police first said they had found body parts I assumed not, but don't have any real reason for assuming that at the time.
When I thought about it, I decided they probably had found all of her, just based on there not being reports in the media of ongoing searches.
I've seen that there has been ongoing forensic type work at the particular addresses, but not seen any mention at all of other searches.
I'm assuming police would continue to try to find all of her, if it was the case they hadn't recovered all of her.

I too thought the same. What led us to believe that was the word 'parts', I think. Body parts. The police had stated that the body was cut. So, after, had they found ALL, I think they would say 'we found BW body' or words to that effect, knowing all of us that unfortunatelly it was cut, but saying 'we found the body' we would assume it was all the body. Saying 'parts' as they said, I still have doubts if this lovely girl was totally found. ahhh arrrrrgh.

 

[Beesknees]

Perhaps less 'special' and more desperate.

A bunch of people lacking resources, imagination and perhaps intelligence painted themselves into a corner and froze there crippled by panic and paranoia.

Oh good they did. If not they could, who knows, get away with it and that would be awful...

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm trying to figure out something...well, lots of things, really, but I'll start with this one...

If we go with the idea that all of the body parts were found at one house (BC), where was Becky dismembered? At that same house? At a different house then moved to the BC house?

Or, was she dismembered and brought to multiple houses?

I was just thinking that, if she was dismembered at the same house she was found at, the charges against the four would be viewed differently. Gone would be the, "Dude, can you hold my stuff until I'm out of the hot seat?" line of explanation. In would be a more intimate involvement in the gruesome crime itself.

I believe the charge of Assisting an Offender could include dismembering a body, too. In the US, we have a specific charge for something like this: abuse of a corpse. Does the UK?



Thoughts?

BINGO!!!!! Exactly what I have been struggling with for some time now. I was waiting to hear the charge "abuse of a corpse" in connection with the other 4 arrestees. I don't know if that exists in British Law.

I have guessed that it happened at SH's residence. I was surmising that he brought Becky there after death because, I am again surmising that Becky died in her own home, did what he did and then called his buddies to help him with the disposal.

I think he had to get Becky out of the house before his mother came home and I'm not sure that he even had a plan to dismember her at that point. Perhaps SH had the plan? Maybe that could be part of her helping him to evade LE.

All guesswork, nothing more nothing less.

 

[jigzy]

The headline facts known about this are:

BW is dead.

NM, SH etc have been arrested and charged with various crimes connected to that death.

The timings of those arrests and the timings of the charges.

The locations searched.

That body parts were found AT the Barton Court Property.

That the Black Zafira was found outside a property approximately 6 miles from NM's home. That the Police appeared to be struggling to establish the ownership of the Zafira and it's movements over the days following BW's disappearance.

That the Police have estimated they have approximately 1200 items of evidence to process. They include two large bin or drum like objects.

What we definitely don't know:

Who was where and when at any point on the timeline from the night before BW apparently disappeared up until each of the arrests.

Regarding the emboldened above: Gosh, was this really so? I thought it was easy for the LE to trace ownership of vehicles.
Also, as an aside, I had assumed that the reason LE wanted the previous owners to contact them (apart from the obvious DNA elimination thing) was so that any significant marks in the vehicle might be explained. If, for example, there were scratch/kick marks within the vehicle, then the previous owners might explain this happened during their ownership. Also, if perhaps cadaverine was sniffed by the dogs in the car, then the LE would need to eliminate a person having expired in the vehicle by questioning previous owners. Just some of my own thoughts of the matter.

 

[epiphany]

I'm trying to figure out something...well, lots of things, really, but I'll start with this one...

If we go with the idea that all of the body parts were found at one house (BC), where was Becky dismembered? At that same house? At a different house then moved to the BC house?

Or, was she dismembered and brought to multiple houses?

I was just thinking that, if she was dismembered at the same house she was found at, the charges against the four would be viewed differently. Gone would be the, "Dude, can you hold my stuff until I'm out of the hot seat?" line of explanation. In would be a more intimate involvement in the gruesome crime itself.

I believe the charge of Assisting an Offender could include dismembering a body, too. In the US, we have a specific charge for something like this: abuse of a corpse. Does the UK?



Thoughts?

BBM

Ohh, so glad you asked this question. I've been wondering also. Have no knowledge of UK laws, but I don't think so. At least I hope not!

The four aren't members of a cartel, nor an organized crime group. Could he have gotten one or even more than one of them to perform such a heinous act without payment? I don't think so. Doesn't have that kind of money anyway.

IF one is depraved enough to murder a family member, a teen, your Mother's stepchild who's living with your Mom, whom your Mom prob considers as close to her as her own...might you be capable of performing the dismemberment yourself in order to make it more difficult to discover her body, to hinder DNA analysis, to delay ID, to make it more difficult to find cause of death, to hinder discovery of poss sexual assault prior to the murder, you've got your own partner, your own young child, etc etc>yeah, you might just do it yourself.

 

[skibaboo]

Bees knees that is a great post. If you haven't already can I suggest you copy it over to the media thread? I think a lot will find it very useful and there it will be easy to find. Great work!

 

[Wallace]

Regarding the emboldened above: Gosh, was this really so? I thought it was easy for the LE to trace ownership of vehicles.
Also, as an aside, I had assumed that the reason LE wanted the previous owners to contact them (apart from the obvious DNA elimination thing) was so that any significant marks in the vehicle might be explained. If, for example, there were scratch/kick marks within the vehicle, then the previous owners might explain this happened during their ownership. Also, if perhaps cadaverine was sniffed by the dogs in the car, then the LE would need to eliminate a person having expired in the vehicle by questioning previous owners. Just some of my own thoughts of the matter.

The current keeper of a vehicle is registered with the DVLA (central body responsible for driver and vehicle licencing).

The current keeper is not necessarily the person who owns it or the person that is driving it. It's simply a person responsible for the vehicle.

In the vast majority of cases a simple enquiry to the DVLA computer (the Police have direct access) would give the details needed.

It appears in this case that the current keeper record didn't reconcile with their expectation.

Also unless the vehicle is owned by a finance company the records do not show who actually owns the car.

For example I could buy a car for cash, it would be my car but I could allow an employee to use that car (as a perk). They would be responsible for the car so I would register them as the current keeper at the DVLA. That way speeding/parking tickets etc would go straight to them.

I will not expand on the reasons why someone might not use the correct details when registering a current keeper of a vehicle. Let's just say it's possible to muddy the waters with either false or misleading information.

 

[opalsqueak63]

Hi there. There is no "abuse of a corpse" law in England like the one in some US States. I believe the only offence would be if a particular sexual offence was committed on the deceased person, in which case it would count as a sexual offence. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Beesknees]

This thought of mine is hellish, but we can do nothing but speculate some times. We have so few facts, our mind tends to leap a bit and we have been proved that everything is possible. Could AG have known more than we think'

 

[MamaJoJo]

This thought of mine is hellish, but we can do nothing but we have so few facts, our mind tends to leap sometimes and we have been proved that everything is possible. Could AG have known more than we think'

At what point do you mean, Bees? The day Becky went missing? That weekend? After the arrests?

I believe AG knew absolutely nothing about her son's involvement in her step-daughter's disappearance/murder until after NM's arrest.

 

[Beesknees]

Bees knees that is a great post. If you haven't already can I suggest you copy it over to the media thread? I think a lot will find it very useful and there it will be easy to find. Great work!

Oh good it might be helpful, skibaboo, thank you.
No, I haven't. Didn't think about it because I don't know the forum very well :blushing: as always I am here I dive in this 'room' - lol - and was never in any other place of the 'house'. I will try to find it and will post there then

 

[epiphany]

Hi there. There is no "abuse of a corpse" law in England like the one in some US States. I believe the only offence would be if a particular sexual offence was committed on the deceased person, in which case it would count as a sexual offence. I hope that makes sense.

So the individual or individuals who performed the dismemberment...are you saying that such an act would be "incorporated" so to speak under either of the charges (the murder charges--that I can understand, OR the assisting the offender charges)?

 

[MamaJoJo]

Oh good it might be helpful, skibaboo, thank you.
No, I haven't. Didn't think about it because I don't know the forum very well :blushing: as always I am here I dive in this 'room' - lol - and was never in any other place of the 'house'. I will try to find it and will post there then

Here's the link to the "room" down the hall...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-19-February-2015-*Media-Maps-amp-Timelines*

 

[epiphany]

This thought of mine is hellish, but we can do nothing but speculate some times. We have so few facts, our mind tends to leap a bit and we have been proved that everything is possible. Could AG have known more than we think'

No way IMO. He was about 18 yo when his Mom was on the scene from what we have gleaned. Nothing indicates BW lived with him, was raised with him, spent time with him, etc. BW's own blood relatives appear to stand united around AG.

 

[Beesknees]

At what point do you mean, Bees? The day Becky went missing? That weekend? After the arrests?

I believe AG knew absolutely nothing about her son's involvement in her step-daughter's disappearance/murder until after NM's arrest.

You are right and believe me, I too always thought the same. I said it was an hellish thing that crossed my mind. This is all so unbelievable... I have been mad with Rebecca's fate. Since MM's case in my country, which drove me crazy I never posted in forums again. But this RW case has been affecting me deeply. Well, has affected all of us.
And to add to AG integrity we have all DG family always supporting her. Sometimes we had better not to write some thoughts...

 

[Wallace]

So the individual or individuals who performed the dismemberment...are you saying that such an act would be "incorporated" so to speak under either of the charges (the murder charges--that I can understand, OR the assisting the offender charges)?

If there was no intent to assist an offender there are other charges such as preventing a lawful and decent burial but those are generally fairly minor offences. With a good lawyer you would most likely get a suspended sentence.

 

[Beesknees]

No way IMO. He was about 18 yo when his Mom was on the scene from what we have gleaned. Nothing indicates BW lived with him, was raised with him, spent time with him, etc. BW's own blood relatives appear to stand united around AG.

Indeed. All the family is supporting her. And it is a good thought to feel that this girl wasn't bettrayed by anyone else. Thank you.

 

[epiphany]

If there was no intent to assist an offender there are other charges such as preventing a lawful and decent burial but those are generally fairly minor offences. With a good lawyer you would most likely get a suspended sentence.

I simply can't wrap my mind around it.

So do you mean that one or more of the other four charged MAY have carried out the actual dismemberment?

Intending to assist a defendant with the disposal of body parts>that's one thing. Actual dismemberment, quite another.

 

[pukasonqo2]

Indeed. All the family is supporting her. And it is a good thought to feel that this girl wasn't bettrayed by anyone else. Thank you.

i am glad AG has the family support, she is as much of a victim as becky and becky's dad are.
both her and becky's dad have lost children, and must be terrible for her to now know that the source of this devastation is her own son
my heart is torn for this family and this child and i admire their resilience and strenght, they wil need each other once the trial starts and details of the murder are disclosed