NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #7

[gitana1]

Yes indeed.
not sure its DNA, could be learned behaviour, traits.. absent father syndrome or nothing at all..
People have choices.
If every behaviour has a positive intention (NLP) what did Paddock hope to achieve by a mass killing?
What did he want from it?
What aspect of himself did he think would benefit from carrying it out?

Was it ego, infamy, revenge for the State taking his father and imprisoning him?
We have no clue at all..
It was said to be meticulously planned.
It probably was in that housekeeping were in his suite several times acc to NYT article, but saw nothing.
Generally they clean room, bathrooms dust and vacuum.. where was the gun stash during their visits?

I had assumed he had them assembled for a few days.. it was reported he had a 'do not disturb' sign on his door.

Was the hard drive an after thought or part of his evil creation which would contribute to the 'enigma status' he so clearly craved?

wheels within wheels.. we will be dizzy if not stir crazy by the time we get to understand his thought process..

Indeed we almost all have choice - except those with brain damage or true mental illness that renders them incapable of controlling their actions.

Psychopaths are all around us and control their behavior all the time. As to guns not being noticed, there were a few gun shows going on at the time, so the appearance of guns being brought in or stacked in the closet may not be that out of place. Further, who is to say his guns were not noticed? Do we have all the statements off all housekeepers or other staff that have been made public? And what about the possibility that some of those housekeepers may not be documented and may not have wanted to say much about what they might have seen just simply out of fear?

Then of course there's the possibility that he just had a stack of guns and cases and there would be no good reason for housekeeping to open up those cases and see what was inside. This is Vegas. There are a lot of tradeshows and other events going on there all the time.

I just simply don't understand the skepticism about this tragedy.

 

[JaneEyre]

They are finding "proof" of psychiatric illnesses through MRIs now. But that, of course, is based on the brain being alive while they are looking. So what we are learning about these illnesses and issues in the brain have less to do with structure and more to do with how everything in there is or is not "firing."

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I just want to note why I put "proof" in quotes. I personally believe we have enough proof without imaging that depression and other mental illnesses are real. To me, it's a proven fact that it affects us biologically. But I realized after posting that my use of quotes could be seen as me thinking the opposite, and I don't want to offend anyone.

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[x_files]

Yes indeed.
not sure its DNA, could be learned behaviour, traits.. absent father syndrome or nothing at all..
People have choices.
If every behaviour has a positive intention (NLP) what did Paddock hope to achieve by a mass killing?
What did he want from it?
What aspect of himself did he think would benefit from carrying it out?

Was it ego, infamy, revenge for the State taking his father and imprisoning him?
We have no clue at all..
It was said to be meticulously planned.
It probably was in that housekeeping were in his suite several times acc to NYT article, but saw nothing.
Generally they clean room, bathrooms dust and vacuum.. where was the gun stash during their visits?

I had assumed he had them assembled for a few days.. it was reported he had a 'do not disturb' sign on his door.

Was the hard drive an after thought or part of his evil creation which would contribute to the 'enigma status' he so clearly craved?

wheels within wheels.. we will be dizzy if not stir crazy by the time we get to understand his thought process..

Pyschopathy runs in DNA. Lots of studies about inherited behavior through DNA. In this case Nurture + Nature an unfortunate combo. Learned disdain of authority and the law by dear old Dad.

 

[gitana1]

Pyschopathy runs in DNA. Lots of studies about inherited behavior through DNA. In this case Nurture + Nature an unfortunate combo. Learned disdain of authority and the law by dear old Dad.

I remember a strange comment by the other brother about being proud of their bank robber father. I don't know if he was being facetious or not.

 

[x_files]

I remember a strange comment by the other brother about being proud of their bank robber father. I don't know if he was being facetious or not.

I believe he was telling the truth.

 

[human]

I am just asking the questions based on what they said and they said it almost looked like a gun store. But the real question is why would he have so many weapons in a hotel room? He didn't need anywhere near that amount to do what he did. In fact, the chances of being caught would have been significantly greater. More chances for someone to get suspicious, harder to hide his armoury from housekeeping etc...

It just doesn't add up for me.

I can’t find the reference, but I believe it is noted that he had done computer searches on LE breaching a room.

He had cameras set up to see who is in the hall. I think he thought he was ina fine position to mow down any LE that came to get him.

But JC thwarted that plan. If he is very organized and focused which he must ve to have all of his skill in making money, I imagine he planned for issues. Gun getting hot. Jammed.

I think he planned on shooting for a long long time.

 

[Cryptic]

BBM
Wait. WHAT???

Please tell me more!

The case is over twenty years old, and I cant find details on it. It was out of Orange County. Anyways, it involved an individual who shared SP's intelligence, perpertual shallow jerk personality, and desire never to be poor again.

After taking some JC classes on computers, he improved some existing software, then started a data recovery company that mixed his real ability with a certain dose of self promotion. His success, intelligence, and dominate personality made him a super hero to his family. Like SP, he was “the Man”.

The money flowed in for a few years. He also moved into real estate at a smaller level then SP. Started buying and selling multiple higher end homes, then created some sort of real estate holding company with family and others as investors. Things went well until distractions (exotic car stable etc.) and competition impacted the software side of the empire. Soon, the real estate side was being impacted as well.

“The Man” was relatively young and had demonstrated business skills needed to solve challenges. Instead, he orders two mafia style hits for a mix of relatively minor financial and “I deem these two to be annoying” type motives.

 

[kittythehare]

Pyschopathy runs in DNA. Lots of studies about inherited behavior through DNA. In this case Nurture + Nature an unfortunate combo. Learned disdain of authority and the law by dear old Dad.

I was just researching this just now.. theres absolutely tons and tons of peer reviewed and cited info online. I could not choose a single piece of research...
Google under 'heritability of psychopathy' any who are interested..
it is strange that there are no c/o domestic or any other violence in relation to this perpetrator..
I could see, at a stretch OCD.. fear of germs, worsening allergic states..I think his 'sloppy dress' was more about needing to wear loose fitting clothes as his allergies seemed to have been exacerbated by heat..
I wonder again what medications he had been prescribed and whether he took unprescribed drugs as well. It has a big cocaine flavour.

 

[kittythehare]

I can’t find the reference, but I believe it is noted that he had done computer searches on LE breaching a room.

He had cameras set up to see who is in the hall. I think he thought he was ina fine position to mow down any LE that came to get him.

But JC thwarted that plan. If he is very organized and focused which he must ve to have all of his skill in making money, I imagine he planned for issues. Gun getting hot. Jammed.

I think he planned on shooting for a long long time.

I do as well, think he had planned on shooting for a long time but had to escalate his plan and the security guard appearance thwarted much of it..

But its possible that he had a 'ritual' planned in relation to his own death as well. Something that involved several minutes..I wonder at what it might have been?
I wonder when he shot himself and how much time had elapsed from when he ceased shooting the crowd?

 

[Cryptic]

We wondered why SP chose LV for his massacre when he could have chosen another place/geographical location with similar access to a large crowd of people..

He explored other venues, including one in Chicago. I think LV was decided on for convenience (close to his home), as Nevada is a western state there is a lower risk of extensive inquiries if stopped travelling with alot of weapons, and SP was able to book a room over looking the event.

 

[PrairieWind]

Why do psychos do anything they do? It never "adds up".

Logic works though. He had how many guns in there? Yet the sounds that can be clearly heard during the concert evidence only one gun being fired (with a richochet echo perhaps), out of one hole in one of two windows, at a time, so what does that mean? A hoard of government agents or political terrorists got into the room unseen by anyone but each other and then stood around while one guy shot off one weapon?

Or in order to satisfy those who don't understand basic science and how sound travels, so let's say two guys were simultaneously firing out of two windows. Why do they need more than two or three guns? There was a still a "gun store" in that room with far more than was necessary for two people for those who don't understand basic science.

Guns are a symbol in our country. A symbol of manliness power. Machismo. Control. Rage. Bravery. Strength. The more guns the more of all of that. Clearly this creep was sending a message to the world. His amount of guns was a nice FU to all of us. See what he could amass? See how powerful he could be and how much death he could cause?

This coward was a sociopath like his father with chronic feelings of emptiness, IMO.

Despite gambling large sums at big casinos and having a girlfriend who liked him, he had little, was little and didn't matter much. Quiet and unassuming, he had almost no recognition.

He achieved in death and horror that which he could not achieve in life.

I agree with some of this Gitana, and disagree with some. I agree that he was likely trying to achieve something to overcome his perhaps perception that he was inadequate. Sure, he had money, but he didn't really have any accomplishments in life that were noteworthy. He bragged of being the greatest poker player, but I think most people would think that is actually a bit pathetic, and maybe he was starting to realize that. And he certainly was a coward.

I disagree with your perception of gun ownership and what they symbolize. Of course guns can mean different things to different people, but I don't believe that the majority of gun owners in the US would agree with what you believe they stand for. I am a shooting enthusiast, I don't perceive guns that way. Certainly not "rage" and "manliness" or "machismo." Most of the women in my circle of friends and most of the women in my office enjoy shooting activities. And would never want to hurt anyone. The small percentage of gun owners that commit crimes and atrocities with them are despised by the firearm community.

Why did he have that many firearms in the suite? I suspect he believed he needed them. It could be that he thought that since he had them, he might as well take them all since this would be his only chance. But I think there may have been a more practical reason. SP only fired for 10 minutes, yet when the police got to the room they found that 4-5 of the weapons were jammed. That will happen when bump firing, and especially the way he was doing it: long sustained bursts. That is very hard on a rifle and its not the way the military trains to shoot automatic weapons. He knew his weapons would occasionally jam. Sometimes those jams are easy to clear, but sometimes it takes time, time he would not want to waste. If a weapon jammed, he wanted to be able to just toss it aside and grab the next one. I suspect he intended to shoot down on the crowd for far longer than he actually did. He probably thought he would need most of those guns to pull it off.

 

[Cryptic]

As to guns not being noticed, there were a few gun shows going on at the time, so the appearance of guns being brought in or stacked in the closet may not be that out of place. Further, who is to say his guns were not noticed? Do we have all the statements off all housekeepers or other staff that have been made public? And what about the possibility that some of those housekeepers may not be documented and may not have wanted to say much about what they might have seen just simply out of fear?

The police related that the weapons not directly used in the attack were all "pretty well hidden". In addition, SP apparently kept the 'do not disturb' notice up for most, if not all of his stay.

As for the legal status of the house cleaners, my bet is that they are all legal. In all probability, MGM employees work directly for MGM, not say, sub sub contractors with motives to overlook papers. In addition, luxury resorts often pay a little better and offer better working conditions to attract more capable employees. Thus, MGM could well have more than enough legal and native born applicants for their positions.

 

[kittythehare]

He explored other venues, including one in Chicago. I think LV was decided on for convenience (close to his home), as Nevada is a western state there is a lower risk of extensive inquiries if stopped travelling with alot of weapons, and SP was able to book a room over looking the event.

Possibly.
I wondered whether it had something to do with being the state where his father was arrested for the bank robberies? Thus depriving him of a father..
Speculating wildly here..
I wonder why he choose shooting as opposed to a vbied or ied? And involves far less planning once one has the ingredients assembled.
He would never have arisen suspicion had he entered the concert venue as a hotel guest wearing a vest or a belt..
And the casualty figures would have been much higher.

This is a bit of a paradox.. over equipped with guns, but if the objective was solely to kill many people he chose a less efficient methodology.

This suggests he had another motive as well.
Iwonder what it was?

 

[Cryptic]

I wondered whether it had something to do with being the state where his father was arrested for the bank robberies? Thus depriving him of a father..

SP's brother related that they never really knew their father as even before his bank robbery spree, he went AWOL as a parent. Then factor in that <modsnip> was not in prison that long before he sprung himself.

I wonder why he choose shooting as opposed to a vbied or ied? And involves far less planning once one has the ingredients assembled.

McVeigh was "lucky". Absent expert assembly or instruction, many bombs are almost as dangerous to their makers as their intended victims.

U.S. leftist terrorists in the 1970s learned that the hard way. Al Queda and ISIS don't care about learning curve casualties. After a pattern of explosive errors, the less martyrdom willing IRA and protestant opposites left explosives refining, bomb assembly and arming to a small number of experts selected by Darwinism. Even then, accidents happened.

 

[x_files]

SP's brother related that they never really knew their father as even before his bank robbery spree, he went AWOL as a parent. Then factor in that <modsnip> was not in prison that long before he sprung himself.


McVeigh was "lucky". Absent expert assembly or instruction, many bombs are almost as dangerous to their makers as their intended victims.

U.S. leftist terrorists in the 1970s learned that the hard way. Al Queda and ISIS don't care about learning curve casualties. After a pattern of explosive errors, the less martyrdom willing IRA and protestant opposites left explosives refining, bomb assembly and arming to a small number of experts selected by Darwinism. Even then, accidents happened.

sounds like they grew up idolizing their bank robber dad though.

 

[kittythehare]

SP's brother related that they never really knew their father as even before his bank robbery spree, he went AWOL as a parent. Then factor in that <modsnip> was not in prison that long before he sprung himself.


McVeigh was "lucky". Absent expert assembly or instruction, many bombs are almost as dangerous to their makers as their intended victims.

U.S. leftist terrorists in the 1970s learned that the hard way. Al Queda and ISIS don't care about learning curve casualties. After a pattern of explosive errors, the less martyrdom willing IRA and protestant opposites left explosives refining, bomb assembly and arming to a small number of experts selected by Darwinism. Even then, accidents happened.

The ingredients for IED's are readily available online together with many idiot proof instruction vids courtesy of known terrorist groups.

[FONT=&quot]apparently carried through to Las Vegas. That’s where Patrick was arrested. A description of his car had been given to police following one of his robberies which is what lead cops to Las Vegas. During his arrest, an officer fired at Patrick’s car, shattering the windshield
[/FONT] http://heavy.com/news/2017/10/stephen-paddock-dad-patrick-benjamin-hoskins/

Its possibly coincidental .https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/117790067/
Still in an effort to find a rhythm for his actions.
If I think of it as a giant painting, it becomes Dali-eque..
Music, possibly metal..

well planned, relatively well executed, from his perspective..
The 'why' remains elusive.
Working on there being a zero why with the above..

 

[kittythehare]

sounds like they grew up idolizing their bank robber dad though.

Theres a massive lack of interviews with schoolmates. hotel staff, restaurant staff, hotel staff in this entire case..
The single prostitute lacked credibility, a name and was published by a gutter media source, I think we have to discredit her words..if she even existed..

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/14143054/benjamin_paddock_arizona_republic/

 

[Cryptic]

sounds like they grew up idolizing their bank robber dad though.

It might of been mixed.

SP's brother related that their father had always been AWOL for as long as he could remember before he disappeared and that his life style / crime spree did not influence him, or his brothers while they were growing up.

In other interviews, the brother may have shown more acknowledgement of him, but I get the impression it is more of an acknowledgement of say, "just another assertive dude who lived large and had a wild 'n crazy life" rather than idolization of him and his crimes as an individual.

 

[Cryptic]

The ingredients for IED's are readily available online together with many idiot proof instruction vids courtesy of known terrorist groups.

There apparently is a lot of "idiot proof" instruction on the net about a variety of dangerous activities (homemade fire works, home made weapons modifications, home made bombs, submarines etc.)

At the end of the day, I bet "idiot proof" instructions for home made dangerous things such as explosives are best left to well.... idiots.