Gun Control Debate #3

[EuTuCroquet?]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...4-innocent-people-die/?utm_term=.2c7678cd10e8

From that article

Sigh. That’s beyond depressing.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I wonder how many of those suicides and accidental shootings were with 'assault weapons'. Probably not very many.

I'm beginning to think 'assault weapon' is some scapegoat category to demonize.

 

[bluedivergirl]

So what's the magic number? How many justifiable homicides by homeowners does it take to erase all the suicides, toddler shootings, and homeowners murdering loved ones?

IMO, there is no magic number. Toddler shootings are appalling. Incredibly negligent parenting.

Suicides ~ like so many others, I struggle with PTSD, anxiety and depression. I agree, the suicidal will find a way. It is a bad day when bridge abutments look good. Improvements in mental health care, and destigmatizing mental health care.

Homeowners murdering loved one because of mis-identification? Don't know. I don't know the back story. Perhaps they'd been stalked, perhaps they were stupid. I don't know.

 

[bobcat]

So what's the magic number? How many justifiable homicides by homeowners does it take to erase all the suicides, toddler shootings, and homeowners murdering loved ones?

You're never going to stop all those things unless all guns are banned, and all guns are successfully confiscated from all citizens.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

You're never going to stop all those things unless all guns are banned, and all guns are successfully confiscated from all citizens.

Banning and confiscating all firearms won’t stop ALL domestic violence, toddler injury, etc.

But restricting access to firearms for violent offenders, abusers, rapists, stalkers, criminals will certainly make it less deadly.

I *hope* most of us can agree on that.

 

[rsd1200]

For many of us, shooting is fun. It is quite rewarding to develop the skill to finally conquer the majestic clay pigeon. Then you can start on skeet.

Hunting is fulfilling. It is satisfying to fill you freezer for the winter through your own efforts. An animal killed in the woods has a great life with a quick bad ending. An animal you buy in the store on a piece of foam has had a horrid life, unless you are someone who goes out of their way (and pocket) to get humanely raised protein.

Hunting is not easy. It is a skill learned over time. I never deer hunted ~ it is to darn much work. I would scout and help hang stands. I would hunt birds, mostly grouse and quail.

BBM
I agree. I enjoy shooting. I have never hunted but have always enjoyed target shooting. I'm no Annie Oakly though, not gonna lie (I can still dream!). I do want to own what I need, to be able to hunt, should I need to hunt. I am decent at raising my own food.

However, to me, enjoying target shooting w/firearms, is no different than folks who enjoy target shooting, in archery. There are folks in both, who don't hunt. B ecoming a good marksman, increases your likelihood of hitting your target, should one want/need to hunt. My father was an avid hunter and fisherman in his earlier years. I also appreciate the workmanship in many firearms.

They currently have archery teams in many schools now. A sib's child enjoyed archery in school. One of mine took gun safety in Conservation Camp. They also offer archery and firearm safety/target shooting, in our state 4-H program. NC was on the school's Junior Reserve Officer Training Corp, where it is said, that he excelled on the varsity marksmanship team. Should he have been on that team? Idk, but it's worth being looked at, since he excelled in marksmanship, and folks had expressed concerns about his "dark" writing assignments.
.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I wonder how many of those suicides and accidental shootings were with 'assault weapons'. Probably not very many.

I'm beginning to think 'assault weapon' is some scapegoat category to demonize.

I respectfully disagree, but I can still see your point.

Personally, I appreciate the wide-ranging discussion on all firearms, related impacts of gun violence on society, and learning more about how people inside and outside the US think about gun regulation and reform.

Having a discussion about gun violence and ignoring suicide isn’t intellectually honest — in my opinion — and it’s great that it’s talked about here.

And I agree, the handful of people I knew who completed suicide with a firearm fatally blew their heads off with a rifle/shotgun or family owned handgun. (Another used a rope. Another, their parents did not share the cause.) But definitely no AR-15.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Yes, it is. Hospital admissions, autopsies, law enforcement calls, injuries, incomplete attempts, family reports, death records, suicide help-line referrals, crisis care admissions and referrals, interviews,, surveys, mandatory reporters, etc., etc., etc.

In fact, if anything, I agree instances might be under-reported. Unless they use a gun. That's mostly fatal.

???

Your link is from an organization who doesn't even pretend to be middle of the road, or scientifically based. Everytown is a heavily anti-gun activism site, starting with their logo. As such, their comments and conclusions are opinions, not scientifically based.

It's not possible to measure how many people are suicidal, and how many have attempted suicide. All we know is the number of those who completed what are determined to be suicides, using a gun. We don't know the whole population of those with suicidal ideation, and it cannot be known with any certainty. We only know those who report to an agent that is required to keep and report those statistics.

It's absurdly easy for biased agencies to produce junk science to support predetermined conclusions. And even easier to persuade people with little scientific background that opinions in these articles and studies are somehow "real facts".

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

War of words at DuPage County Fairgrounds between pro-gun and anti-gun groups gets heated

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...-gun-show-protest-st-0307-20180306-story.html

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

People from countries with strict gun control explain how life is different compared to the US

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-control-in-other-countries-outside-the-us-2018-3

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Seattle Police Become First to Confiscate Man's Gun Under New 'Extreme Risk' Law

https://ijr.com/2018/03/1072390-sea...nfiscate-mans-gun-under-new-extreme-risk-law/

Sgt. Eric Pisconski said the extreme risk protection orders give police the option to disarm citizens when mental illness is suspected or when people are “exhibiting violent behavior.” It’s now the police’s job to determine whether or not those individuals should have access to guns.

The gun confiscation orders reportedly lasts for one year, but they are eligible for renewal.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

If you carry a gun, are you morally obligated to use it when confronted with a mass shooting?

https://www.deseretnews.com/article...-it-when-confronted-with-a-mass-shooting.html

There are deeper questions, too, that challenge gun enthusiasts like Pappalardo, as calls for stricter gun laws grow louder. Some ethicists talk about the importance of bridge building and compromise, while defenders of current policies say personal freedom and the right to defend oneself and one's family in a fallen world supercede other virtues. (Even robots, after all, have a right to self-defense, some people say.)

Responsible gun ownership is about education, safes and trigger locks, among other things. What does ethical gun ownership look like? And what should people thoughtfully consider before making the decision to buy — or keep — a gun?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Vigil for Parkland school shooting victims gives voice to frustration

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ng-victims-gives-voice-frustration/393721002/

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Armed teachers in schools? N.Y. lawmakers want to ban it

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...hers-schools-ny-lawmakers-want-ban/394013002/

The bill would change the language to "stipulate that no educational institution shall issue such written authorization to any teacher, professor, administrator, or other person who is not primarily employed as a school resource officer, law enforcement officer or security guard."

Senate Democrats said the bill would add protections in New York law if the federal restrictions on guns in school zones were to be lifted.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Florida Senate rejects ban on assault weapons as it advances school safety proposals

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article203302109.html

The so-called “school marshal program” would allow school districts to work with county law enforcement to deputize trained school personnel to carry concealed weapons during school hours.

Gov. Rick Scott has said he opposes arming school teachers, and the program is opposed by most of the members of the 28-member Florida Conference of Black State Legislators, who fear that black students could become disproportionately discriminated against by school officials carrying firearms.

The four-part package focuses on mental health, firearms safety, school safety and communication and includes what Galvano said was “the most frequent request” — to raise the age for buying a rifle or shotgun from 18 to 21.

He failed to note that many of the parents and thousands of activists who rallied at the Capitol also wanted lawmakers to ban assault weapons.

 

[human]

For many of us, shooting is fun. It is quite rewarding to develop the skill to finally conquer the majestic clay pigeon. Then you can start on skeet.

Hunting is fulfilling. It is satisfying to fill your freezer for the winter through your own efforts. An animal killed in the woods has a great life with a quick bad ending. An animal you buy in the store on a piece of foam has had a horrid life, unless you are someone who goes out of their way (and pocket) to get humanely raised protein.

Hunting is not easy. It is a skill learned over time. I never deer hunted ~ it is too darn much work. I would scout and help hang stands. I would hunt birds, mostly grouse and quail.

Actually, deer huntng is incredibly easy. They are creatures of habit that do not roam far. And they are not smart. They are predictable.

When my husband hunted deer, his famliy felt it was like a harvest. Like getting broccoli to eat. No one thought they were some kind of tough guy.

It was no different than having to get food from :he garden. .

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

It's Time to Close the "Boyfriend Loophole" to Help Stop Gun Violence

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/its-time-to-close-the-boyfriend-loophole-to-help-stop-gun-violence

 

[human]

People from countries with strict gun control explain how life is different compared to the US

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-control-in-other-countries-outside-the-us-2018-3

Retired American living in a foreign country with no guns.

America’s gun culture is absurd. I truly wonder why Americans are so addicted that they choose guns over the lives of Sandy Hook and now Parkland.

Australia and England as nations rose up,and said they do not accept these deaths.

America is psychopathic in that these deaths of children mean nothing.

 

[human]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...wpisrc=al_trending_now__alert-national&wpmk=1


A detective later discovered that Jesse, then a 6-foot-tall, 147-pound wispy-haired blond with a voice that tended to crack, had used his phone to Google these terms: "deadliest US mass shootings," "top 10 mass shooters," "youngest mass murderer," "10 youngest murderers in history."

Seven hours after he was pinned to the ground outside Townville Elementary by a volunteer firefighter, Jesse acknowledged in an interview with investigators that he'd shot far fewer kids than he'd intended. The problem, he explained, was the weapon. He'd only had access to the .40 caliber pistol his father kept in a dresser drawer. It had jammed on the playground, just 12 seconds after he first pulled the trigger.

The weapon Jesse really wanted, the one he'd tried desperately to get, was, the teenager believed, locked in his father's gun safe: the Ruger Mini-14, a semiautomatic rifle much like the gun that, 17 months later, was fired again and again at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High, during one of the deadliest school shootings in American history.

 

[Elley Mae]

The only reasons I can think of for owning a gun, in order are:

1. To harm humans.
2. To harm animals.
3. Target shooting.
4. Collecting with no intention of shooting.

To “harm” a human? To “harm” animals?