Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[NuttMegg]

I'd place money that LE already knows whose writing was on that note.

Where did it come up about the note? I missed that.

 

[Ultra Violet]

That written note posted on the inside of the Watts front door that said lock me. Do we think that was an innicent thing they put up to remind themselves to lock the door? Or is it something else?

IIRC, the note on the door was determined to be a 200k Level Thrive logo sticker or sticky note. Likely placed there by SW as motivation because it was a goal she was striving to meet.

 

[borndem]

Ah, yes, that's kind of what I was getting at. Thanks! In any case I was replying to the poster who said they trusted CW because his PD trusted him. Paraphrased. The PD is not asking CW if he is guilty.....

bbm
Absolutely -- it's something they don't/won't ask. It avoids the possibility of the attorney crossing the line and suborning perjury from the client or other witnesses. That way the defense atty can defend the client legally and do his/her best to see that the client gets a fair trial. That's what the law requires. The law doesn't require that the def. atty geta a NG verdict, as we all know.
IMO CW will present his attorney with some challenges...

 

[Deleted member 230544]

I'd place money that LE already knows whose writing was on that note.

@cailleach, I believe the note was there well before the murders because someone posted the photo and SW was standing in front of the door with the note behind her.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

No. I was referencing a poster who defends C.W. at every turn. There’s nothing wrong with needing more evidence, I just disagree with the idea that there is not enough there to reach a conclusion, if one so chooses.

A large portion of posters opinion is that CW's claims are false or even, ridiculous, if one believes CW, offence could be taken, imo. Maybe some view this thread as a mock trial?

Attorneys preparing for a real trial might use a mock trial consisting of volunteers as role players to test theories or experiment with each other.

 

[ReckoningDay]

I disagree. I've listed those facts. There are even more. I think they constitute powerful evidence that he is guilty of three first degree murders beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think I know something about evidence and reasonable doubt and burdens of proof. Reasonable minds may differ. That's understandable. My word isn't law.

But for someone to say it's a fact (as opposed to opinion), that we don't have enough facts to convict him, I think is incorrect and unreasonable.

That's your opinion. It's not fact.[/QUOTE
So true!

 

[Shekkiec]

He left a sheet from his bed, blowing in the wind at the burial site.....DOH...not too bright.

actually great point! If he had killed the girls the day before, he would have had time to clean, get rid of evidence, dump computer, reset factory settings on phone to do hard delete, and stage a scene to implicate her before she got home. He could do it all as he listened to the dog howl in distress hours bc the bodies would be there and upset the dog. IMO that makes it hard for me personally think it was planned. If it happened after an emotional conversation, jmo. Which leads me to consider her as well. Considering her for kids death still makes him guilty of murder. He confessed to that.

 

[Tigerlily75]

I believe his high school shop teacher claims that CW has a photographic memory. That may be the case, but as far as social or emotional intelligence go, the guy is a dunce. JMO

Shanann also said he had a photographic memory in her 30 minute long video, that he could read a book really quickly and remember it all, while she struggled at school.

And I agree, people can be book smart but also really inept in other areas of life. I know lots of people like this!

 

[molly1255]

I believe his high school shop teacher claims that CW has a photographic memory. That may be the case, but as far as social or emotional intelligence go, the guy is a dunce. JMO

I think he may have memorized a lot what he said in his media interviews.

 

[cailleach]

@cailleach, I believe the note was there well before the murders because someone posted the photo and SW was standing in front of the door with the note behind her.

I hadn't heard that before. It could have been a note she left there as a reminder for whoever went to bed last to make sure the door was locked. I'll still bet they know who wrote it and it's general purpose.

 

[Mosaic]

One reason I think it's possible CW's story is true is because he used the words "surreal" and "nightmare" in his interview. It would be surreal for any parent to wake up, have a tense conversation and then see shocking images on a baby monitor.

I viewed the SM and videos through the lens of Medea Complex because I don't believe CW wanted another baby and was tired of her constant SM Thrive portrayal as the perfect family. CW wanted out and without him, SW's perfect life would crumble.

I think it possible SW knew about her husband's affair in May and was trying to compete with his new love. And on that fateful morning, CW told her he had made his choice and it was not SW. If that's the case I can see SW flying into a rage and killing his daughters out of revenge. Until I see conclusive evidence that CW killed the girls, I'll consider it a possibility. JMO

@MyBelle this is why I respectfully disagree with that scenario..
Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

EBM: to add user name

 

[MyBelle]

The ME’s office is an autonomous agency. LE nor the presiding judge in this case can tell the ME how to investigate the cause and manner of death.

Doesn't LE tell the ME what DNA evidence to collect so it can be sent for testing? I've seen cases where a rape kit was never done because LE didn't request it. The PD in this case filed the motion because he believed nobody was telling the ME to collect DNA from the girls' necks.

Didn't the Judge deny the motion because he said the ME was capable of collecting the DNA without needing an expert to observe? To me, that's a signal to the ME that they better collect and preserve the evidence. JMO

 

[ReckoningDay]

Exactly. I mean we know of cases where parents covered up a death but those ALL involve complicity by the parent in abuse or neglect. Like the kid was tortured for weeks or months and they find him dead in his bed and cover it up.

Or the child has an accident because the parents or guardians are busy getting high as kites and not wanting to get in trouble or stop getting money for the kid, they hide the body.

But a case like this? Where the parent is totally innocent of harming the child or allowing the child to be harmed due to neglect? And the parent isn't a total addict or previously abusive or horrifically neglectful parent?

Not one case.

It's fine to say we never know how we would react to something. But that's not how logic and critical thinking and weighing evidence works.

Instead, we look at patterns of human behavior. We look at human nature. We look at the primal, visceral power of the bond between a parent who loves their child, and that kid.

We look at behavior surrounding sudden deaths of children. And patterns involving grief and despair when a parent thinks they've lost their child. Desperation to reverse it. To fix it. To turn back time.

None of his behaviors fit the patterns of human behavior involving sudden shock and fear and grief involving one's child. Try to find a case. Any case.

It doesn't exist.

What does exist though are parents refusing to let go of their child's corpse. Parents like the dad who ran after the nurse as she took his dead baby away, (as one poster described), making sure the dead baby would be "safe".

It's parents who scream and beg the paramedics and doctors to continue trying to revive a child long past any hope.

It's parents like the McMath's who go to incredible lengths, involving courts and money and research and leaving their entire life behind to keep their child's corpse on life support indefinitely.

That we have plenty of examples of.

This we just don't.

But something else we've seen over and over again? How guilty people behave. What people do who have committed atrocities and seek to escape the consequences.

We've seen that for all of recorded history. Heck, thousands of years of history as to what consciousness of guilt looks like:

9. And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10. And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Genesis 4:9-10

Yeah. That we know about. That we have millions upon millions of examples throughout recorded history of what it looks like when someone commits murder- like Cain- and tries to cover it up to escape justice.

And THAT is the exact pattern of human behavior we are seeing here.

For me it's not rocket science. It's just logic.

EXCELLENT analysis. I'd love to hear you give closing arguments in the courtroom!

 

[Allabouttrial]

Haha yep, definitely an amateur move for sure - but seriously, I bet if I had tried to cover up a murder I would probably take care of the tiny little details (that nobody notices) and make some ridiculously obvious mistakes! Might as well leave my business card at the scene

I don't believe that for a second.....

 

[ReckoningDay]

I wouldn’t be surprised if CW is already getting fan mail from sympathizers, commissary money, marriage proposals like Menedez brothers, Scott Peterson, Richard Ramirez, Ted Bundy, Jodi Arias and yes, even James Holmes (Batman killer) received mail from female admirers.

We really live in a sick world. It’s baffling

It is so disheartening

 

[ReckoningDay]

I wouldn’t be surprised if CW is already getting fan mail from sympathizers, commissary money, marriage proposals like Menedez brothers, Scott Peterson, Richard Ramirez, Ted Bundy, Jodi Arias and yes, even James Holmes (Batman killer) received mail from female admirers.

We really live in a sick world. It’s baffling

It is so disheartening

 

[cailleach]

One reason I think it's possible CW's story is true is because he used the words "surreal" and "nightmare" in his interview. It would be surreal for any parent to wake up, have a tense conversation and then see shocking images on a baby monitor.

Yes, but those are words everyone knows are associated with traumatic events and anyone trying not to look guilty would be likely to use them.

 

[sun16]

One reason I think it's possible CW's story is true is because he used the words "surreal" and "nightmare" in his interview. It would be surreal for any parent to wake up, have a tense conversation and then see shocking images on a baby monitor.

I viewed the SM and videos through the lens of Medea Complex because I don't believe CW wanted another baby and was tired of her constant SM Thrive portrayal as the perfect family. CW wanted out and without him, SW's perfect life would crumble.

I think it possible SW knew about her husband's affair in May and was trying to compete with his new love. And on that fateful morning, CW told her he had made his choice and it was not SW. If that's the case I can see SW flying into a rage and killing his daughters out of revenge. Until I see conclusive evidence that CW killed the girls, I'll consider it a possibility. JMO

But wasn’t the AP at work married too? Was she planning to also leave her spouse? What a mess.

 

[DexterMorgan]

One reason I think it's possible CW's story is true is because he used the words "surreal" and "nightmare" in his interview.

 

[MassGuy]

One reason I think it's possible CW's story is true is because he used the words "surreal" and "nightmare" in his interview. It would be surreal for any parent to wake up, have a tense conversation and then see shocking images on a baby monitor.

I viewed the SM and videos through the lens of Medea Complex because I don't believe CW wanted another baby and was tired of her constant SM Thrive portrayal as the perfect family. CW wanted out and without him, SW's perfect life would crumble.

I think it possible SW knew about her husband's affair in May and was trying to compete with his new love. And on that fateful morning, CW told her he had made his choice and it was not SW. If that's the case I can see SW flying into a rage and killing his daughters out of revenge. Until I see conclusive evidence that CW killed the girls, I'll consider it a possibility. JMO

So for clarification. Which do you think is more likely. C.W. doing this, or SW?

 

[esayer]

He makes it sound like they had discussions at the dinner table about strangling being the best way to off someone. No one I have talked to would immediatly reach for someone's throat to get them off of a child or an adult for that matter. You just push, shove, knock them, especially when you are so much larger.

That is a very good point.