AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #18

[MassGuy]

How do we know that?

Common sense.

Evidence, logic, and reason.

Someone targeted that house, blew two people away, and a child is missing.

Police say that she was in the house at the time of the incident. She is now gone.

That part isn’t complicated.

 

[MsBetsy]

I wonder if they were even able to discern voices at all. Early reports said a lot of yelling. I think that’s also what The dispatch log says too but I’d have to check to be sure and I don’t have it handy just now. So I wonder what does the tape hold? What’s confusing about it? :/

Probably what is confusing them is that the sounds on the tape don't really tell them what's going on. Maybe they can hear sounds of furniture being moved as if someone stumbled over it. Maybe the yelling isn't even words, just crying out or moaning or something. I do think they can hear the sound of Jayme's voice, and that's how they know she was there. Jmo

 

[BIC]

Pondering the idea that the tape is confusing. Hmm. What is it they hear? Dragging sounds? Furniture being moved? Objects being thrown? Voices? Tv? Radio? Many things at once? A machine? What machine? Hm... Walkie talkie? Cell phone being used by someone else (buttons being pressed and being? Other far away voices on speaker phone maybe)

Just wondering out loud.

Too many possible options.

I’m not going to say whether they should release the call or not, but I for one, would like to hear it for myself.

 

[MsBetsy]

I looked into some of the stories mentioned and that’s some truly bizarre stuff.

Yes, I did too. Like the guy who passed out while ordering a burger. Some of those people look pretty scary. Jmo

 

[photographer4]

This makes sense SausagePizza. If she was running scared and crying, if one of those cars they're looking for saw a kid on the highway and stopped to "help" her...

Hm so she went from a house of horrors into the street all upset and crying and someone “helped” her so it went from bad to worse maybe depending on how they “helped”?

 

[MsBetsy]

I’m not going to say whether they should release the call or not, but I for one, would like to hear it for myself.

Many of us would, just out of curiosity. But if LE can't make too much of it, it probably is just a bunch of weird muffled sounds. Jmo

 

[MyBelle]

You know... they do use temps, because they mentioned that the panty guy was a temp. I wonder if they even have records of who their temps were? In my experience the company just pays the temp agency, and the temp agency pays the workers... so the company won't even have employment records for the individuals.

They have to have labor records because they were on their payroll or a temp agency payroll. Plants do this so they don't have to pay employee benefits.

There is a food processing plant not far from us and they use a temp agency to do the screening and hiring. The plant does the training and they do require company applications. I think the feds/state probably do require employment records be retained. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Hm so she went from a house of horrors into the street all upset and crying and someone “helped” her so it went from bad to worse maybe depending on how they “helped”?

I don't think she left that house alone. She would have been spotted by LE, since they were there within minutes. She must have been forced into a vehicle. Imo

 

[doktor57]

How sure can LE be, based on surveillance video, that the car in question was a Dodge Challenger? Note the Red Monte Carlo pulled out of the water in Oshkosh on the 26th. Car Found in Lake Butte des Morts

 

[Wrenny]

Common sense. Evidence, logic, and reason.

Those don't seem to be working. It certainly does seem logical that they were the same person. But while high probability it isn't certain, and LE hasn't said so. When we're not getting anywhere considering the likely answers, might it be worth considering less likely? Example, person or persons unknown (to us) killed James & Denise. Jayme the track student, RAN, in blind terror. Person or persons unknown (maybe the same, maybe different) picked her up.

 

[Wrenny]

They have to have labor records because they were on their payroll or a temp agency payroll.

The temp agency should have the records, but the company may not.

 

[MsBetsy]

If this was just about an obsession with Jayme, there would've been infinite other scenarios that a perp could've gotten her without also killing two people. Makes me think that he/she/they felt they were "rescuing" her by waiting until a time of evening where the presence of both parents would not have been in doubt.

JMO.

But if someone really wanted to rescue her, wouldn't they do it when the parents were not around? When there are no obstacles in the way?

 

[MyBelle]

Oh, I agree, as long as the local reporting is good and stays current, I will believe them over what comes off the wire. (Though where I'm located I get the best local news from what you call a big news machine. The more local one usually being several days behind, on local news!)
Anyway I was just sharing why I said, that LE had said that they were waiting to notify family. Cus that's what the majhttps://nocable.org/availability-report/zip/54812-barron-wiority of news sources said.

Actually, Barron WI is in the Minneapolis viewing area so their media are going to be following this case closely. We have several Mpls/St Paul friends who own vacation cabins in NW Wisconsin.

Barron, WI - TV Channels & Antenna Map

 

[kiaatcher]

Those don't seem to be working. It certainly does seem logical that they were the same person. But while high probability it isn't certain, and LE hasn't said so. When we're not getting anywhere considering the likely answers, might it be worth considering less likely? Example, person or persons unknown (to us) killed James & Denise. Jayme the track student, RAN, in blind terror. Person or persons unknown (maybe the same, maybe different) picked her up.

I can see what you're getting at, and it does make sense in theory, but it's unlikely if LE is looking at a more common kidnapping situation (forcing the victim out themselves rather than staging something). Anything is likely at this point though with the lack of evidence.

 

[MassGuy]

How sure can LE be, based on surveillance video, that the car in question was a Dodge Challenger? Note the Red Monte Carlo pulled out of the water in Oshkosh on the 26th. Car Found in Lake Butte des Morts

They have the support of the FBI, who have experts experienced at identifying vehicles.

With the Challenger, they were specific about the years that the car in question could have been manufactured.

It likely has to do with body style, or measurements.

This almost certainly wasn’t a guess.

 

[BIC]

How sure can LE be, based on surveillance video, that the car in question was a Dodge Challenger? Note the Red Monte Carlo pulled out of the water in Oshkosh on the 26th. Car Found in Lake Butte des Morts

They seem to be pretty sure it’s the Challenger, in the model years they posted. They said they wouldn’t look in to any cars reported that weren’t that one.

 

[Gardener1850]

Bringing over some posts from the last thread:

I went searching the newspapers after @charminglane said she had a niece with a stalker (at ten! ugh) as a result of an article written about her. I found a public race result for a 5k in 2017 with video and a cross country meet result with video.

I know the cross country running has been mentioned before, but I am thinking if she entered other races like this it would bring quite a bit of public exposure to the wider community. If someone saw her at one they could easily locate her home from race results with knowing her city and name.

She adorably trips in one of the videos. Seeing her on video is very different than just the pictures we have of her, heartbreaking.

2017 Cumberland Rutabaga Run:
https://www.athlinks.com/event/8055/results/Event/631852/Course/971676/Entry/303745381
2017 Rice Lake Cross Country:
https://www.athlinks.com/event/178701/results/Event/670720/Course/1059790/Entry/305876907

This is really great sleuthing thesnowflakesparkles! Can we figure out these exact course locations and add them to the case map? I think it is possibly relevant that Jayme ran Cross Country events in Rice Lake and Cumberland.

LE has brought in a special canine to try to locate electronics in the Closs home:

Electronic detection canines are a useful tool in uncovering electronic devices as evidence in a variety of crimes, prominently when people try to conceal electronic devices containing child *advertiser censored*. The intensely trained canines are able to sniff for particular chemical compounds, including triphenylphosphine oxide (TPPO) and hydroxycyclohexyl phenyl ketone (HPK), which are found in electronic devices.

New electronics K9 team trained; worked on Jayme Closs case

Very interesting article, thank you for sharing!

More from the article:

This is very interesting info about the electronics sniffing dogs. My first thought was that perhaps they are still looking for Jayme's phone.
My second thoughts were darker, however (warning speculation from seeing too many episodes of SVU ahead). I wondered if perhaps LE had evidence someone was watching the family or Jayme through a camera in their home prior to the murders. These days there are cameras on a lot of devices that can be hacked-- see a recent article here: Google releases new digital home device without a camera so it can’t spy on you
I wonder if Jayme had a school issued i-pad or laptop computer with a camera built in? Did the family have a gaming system with a camera like an x-box 360? There are a lot of devices that are vulnerable to being hacked... but when I read about LE using electronic sniffing dogs it made me wonder if perhaps some video of Jayme in her room at home had been found on the dark net somewhere and perhaps they were searching for a hidden camera. If such a camera existed it would also explain why LE might have set up their own cameras to try to catch someone coming back to retrieve their equipment. But that is all my own speculating... Probably much more likely they have not found her phone and wanted to make doubly sure it was not in the house. If Jayme was somehow able to take her phone with her I hope she kept it hidden and found a way to turn it on when she got to her destination. But chances are good she would not be able to keep it hidden long nor turn it on before the perp discarded it somewhere. MOO.

 

[MyBelle]

The temp agency should have the records, but the company may not.

I think it is required by law for a certain period of time. If a temp is discriminated against, they file the complaint against the employer, not the temp agency. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

But if someone really wanted to rescue her, wouldn't they do it when the parents were not around? When there are no obstacles in the way?

Jayme is a minor. Any "rescuer" would be prosecuted and Jayme returned to her parents. JMO

 

[Wrenny]

With the Challenger, they were specific about the years that the car in question could have been manufactured.

But I'm not sure if they were clear whether it has black hood stripes, white hood stripes, or noone? The pictures they show have different ornamentation and even different scoops. Hm... they do... all have... the same wheels.