GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[mrjitty]

Usually I wait hours in the morning for the thread to open. Now it's open and nobody is here.
Does anyone know if Watts location will be revealed or will it be kept secret?

For those of us in the northern hemisphere we basically miss most of the open time!

 

[Mercedes]

The thing is though, IMO, that is a very simplified explanation for what he wanted to achieve but it doesn't begin to explain why he chose this route over another, or how a human father could detach or never form attachment in the first place. I think these kinds of cold-blooded plotted murders that leave the families and friends stunned in disbelief need more explanation than the standard motives of sex or money. Those things don't cause one to be able to kill the children you bathed, fed and kissed goodnight only a few hours earlier. That is why we need to be able to look at the creation of the monster without being criticized for blaming the parents or the family dynamics.

It was so much more than the affair - that was like a mere pinprick in this case - IMO. Family finances too. That doesn't cause people to kill children they love, and stuff their bodies into trash bags and oil tanks. I think the answer is they are removed from already - or have the ability to remove themselves with a triggering event from - feelings of love and horror. They can flip a switch inside.

There is only one person that I would say he does have a feeling that might resemble love for and that is his dad. Even that might not be love in the accepted sense, but a feeling of responsibility towards ensuring his father is maintained. Maintained is the closest I can get to describing it, as opposed to being destroyed. Perhaps he, CW, was annihilated as a child and his father's annihilation by his mother (and others, including Shanann rejecting RW after nutgate) was an ongoing struggle that had to be prevented. I don't know, I'm going off my feelings and not education in the matter. I feel nutgate was more instrumental in what happened than any of us realize. That was the dagger he talked of. Maybe he turned the dagger around on the family that rejected his father. Maybe he wanted to protect his dad, psychologically and not even knowingly. I said before I think that was the turning point and he demonized them all following that incident, already having the experience of being able to break attachments - as he did long ago with his mother. Nutgate happened in Shanann's second week away, not the last week that CW went out there.

MOO

Well said, Tortoise!

 

[mtnlites]

Re:the whole idea that SW said something to CW that "triggered" him or "pushed a button", etc. I can't engage in that kind of conversation because no matter how it's worded, it always sounds like SHE was somehow at fault. And I don't believe that. She could have quietly come home and went to bed and he'd have still killed her. I firmly believe he had this planned out before she ever left NC. There were no buttons being pushed, no triggers being flipped, etc. I agree with the idea that he'd made his mind up right about the time that he had a personality flip and assured her that things were going to change. THAT was the lightbulb moment.

 

[MsBetsy]

Just wow

I would love to know what he did when he was inside the house by himself.

Hid the phone underneath the pillows on the couch.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Moving the phone is a real problem because it was left on, so had ping.

Ditto I think he can't drive the car somewhere.

The time for her to go "missing" has to be Monday morning

I agree he would have trashed the other items and ideally packed away bags

Yea, he would have not got away with it even if Nikole had not gone over there but thank goodness she did. If it had taken longer to recover the bodies COD might have been difficult to establish.

 

[Madison418]

Also, Bella always woke up in the morning and got in bed with them. She had already gotten out of bed twice earlier to ask if her mom was home yet. I would think he would not want to take the risk. I don't think she knew he had killed them, however. I think one of her friends had said she probably wouldn't have gone in the girls room because she wouldn't have wanted to disturb them or wake them. Imo

And also there was mention that when she went away she didn't Facetime with the girls because they would get too upset so I'm sure she wouldn't want to go in there and rile them up at 2am.

 

[Madison418]

As horrible as this case is and as horrible as CW and his family are it's pretty amazing to see how many good kind people there are. They far outweigh the bad people in this case. Friends, neighbors, SWs family, NUA, the Thayers. These are good, thoughtful, compassionate people. They do exist

 

[IAMWAN]

Moving the phone is a real problem because it was left on, so had ping.

Ditto I think he can't drive the car somewhere.

The time for her to go "missing" has to be Monday morning

I agree he would have trashed the other items and ideally packed away bags

I just watched the body cam footage from when CW first arrives at the home. When they found the phone, it was turned off, so it would have been impossible to find if he had had an opportunity to dispose of it. (Again, THANK GOD for NUA and her son!)

 

[wilsodh]

You still don't have an idea for a motive? He didn't want to be married with children anymore.

It is hard for normal folks with a conscience to fathom his actions, which is in part what sucked me into this case. There is still a lot I haven't explored, but I'm starting to get a better picture, and it makes more sense. I think Chris was finding a new side of himself, catalyzed by his girlfriend. This new side was one of physical bearing, attractiveness, sexuality. Some of the texts and communications with NK highlight an intense, sexually-oriented affair (eg. NK was searching for info on anal sex and watching 3-some videos in addition to searching for wedding dresses). Having engaged in an intense affair in my 30's that cost me my marriage, I can relate to the incredibly strong feelings CW was experiencing. He likely became increasingly dissociated from his previous life with SW, and was finding it difficult to relate to that life any more. He was feeling powerful and was increasingly narcissistic. Look at those police photos of his bad-*advertiser censored*, tatooed, and lean body. This was a man feeling his oats. He wanted a new life with NK that represented a different lifestyle, one of exploration, fitness, sexuality, etc. For her part, NK fed this thirst, and he obsessed over propagating and advancing his relationship with her, even if it meant lying in a totally unsustainable way. He looked at the options, and a divorce from SW would have left him a financial cripple and probably less attractive to NK as a result. He may have felt insecure with his relationship with NK, and wanted to feed his attractiveness to her in every way. The cleanest way to achieve this new life would be to simply eliminate his family. Maybe he would even be able to keep that nice house. Fitting the profile of family annihilators, Chris fantasized about 'removing' his family from his life, but was a piss poor planner. When cornered, he rapidly confessed, which is typical of this class of sociopath.

Affairs happen all the time, but family annihilation does not. Clearly Chris was a sociopath and narcissist, and under the influence of some powerful feelings. That is my take at the moment!

What would be fascinating would be to listen in on his final pre-murder conversation with NK. They were apparently on the phone from 9-11 PM just prior to the murders. This phone call must have been influential for Chris to spring into action that night!

Dave

 

[scdiv]

omg just the still of this shot is priceless.
this is by far my favourite.
I thought nothing would beat I like these shirts a lot lol
but man this baby is so good you have to watch it a few times because I wanna see the neighbour eye balling him but I wanna see chris *advertiser censored* himself lmao

hopefully @PommyMommy has it archived into media thread?!!! for our viewing pleasure

I love it at about 3:50 where he can't even deal and realizes he's screwed.

 

[Tortoise]

In the k9 video (can't link because it wasn't an approved youtube source) the dog reacted at something underneath one of the girl's beds. I believe it might have been a book that was kicked underneath the bed.

I have to agree with the person that said Dieter seemed to be trying to tell them what happened. That was very unusual and very traumatized barking IMO.

 

[mtnlites]

I agree with NK's phone records looking suspect, but I still feel that if there was something to it then the DA would've gone after her as well. It's like the sexual assault speculations. If there had been signs of that, those charges would've been added. Rourke didn't act like he messed around.

 

[Trudie]

I think it will get out somehow.

Anyone that knows his location can reveal it, should they wish. Where ever he lands he’s allowed the same privileges as other inmates at his custody level. Library, commissary, mail, exercise & phone. Right now he’s not listed as a BOP inmate.
After the debacle with a guard allowing another inmate to scuffle with James Holmes, one can assume CO DOC orchestrated out of state housing early on for CW.
Iirc, JH did not go straight to BOP after he was assaulted. He had a few layovers along the way.
We can also assume he flew to his new location on a private craft since no video has surfaced of him on a plane, in the airport, etc. with airport security being what it is these days, it’s not so easy to sneak an inmate thru to a commercial flight. Not to mention what LE endures to board a flight with a weapon. Ask any officer you know that has traveled (by plane) to pick up an inmate arrested in a dif’ State.
Maybe CW will have a new bestie in James Holmes.

 

[scmom]

I love it at about 3:50 where he can't even deal and realizes he's screwed.

He certainly seemed to be having a Calgon moment.

 

[mtnlites]

It is hard for normal folks with a conscience to fathom his actions, which is in part what sucked me into this case. There is still a lot I haven't explored, but I'm starting to get a better picture, and it makes more sense. I think Chris was finding a new side of himself, catalyzed by his girlfriend. This new side was one of physical bearing, attractiveness, sexuality. Some of the texts and communications with NK highlight an intense, sexually-oriented affair (eg. NK was searching for info on anal sex and watching 3-some videos in addition to searching for wedding dresses). Having engaged in an intense affair in my 30's that cost me my marriage, I can relate to the incredibly strong feelings CW was experiencing. He likely became increasingly dissociated from his previous life with SW, and was finding it difficult to relate to that life any more. He was feeling powerful and was increasingly narcissistic. Look at those police photos of his bad-*advertiser censored*, tatooed, and lean body. This was a man feeling his oats. He wanted a new life with NK that represented a different lifestyle, one of exploration, fitness, sexuality, etc. For her part, NK fed this thirst, and he obsessed over propagating and advancing his relationship with her, even if it meant lying in a totally unsustainable way. He looked at the options, and a divorce from SW would have left him a financial cripple and probably less attractive to NK as a result. He may have felt insecure with his relationship with NK, and wanted to feed his attractiveness to her in every way. The cleanest way to achieve this new life would be to simply eliminate his family. Maybe he would even be able to keep that nice house. Fitting the profile of family annihilators, Chris fantasized about 'removing' his family from his life, but was a piss poor planner. When cornered, he rapidly confessed, which is typical of this class of sociopath.

Affairs happen all the time, but family annihilation does not. Clearly Chris was a sociopath and narcissist, and under the influence of some powerful feelings. That is my take at the moment!

What would be fascinating would be to listen in on his final pre-murder conversation with NK. They were apparently on the phone from 9-11 PM just prior to the murders. This phone call must have been influential for Chris to spring into action that night!

Dave

Honestly, I am not even sure he put that much thought into it. He was ready for a new start, ready for a new life. I don't think he was faking his love and affection for them in those videos and pictures, he probably really DID feel something for them at the time. And then he stopped. It's almost like compartmentalizing to the extreme. Dissocociative is right. He'd disassociated from his family so much that they probably barely even registered as people anymore-they were simply things that he not only no longer needed, but things that were in his way. When you're finished with something, you dispose of it (IMO, in his mind). So he did.

Christian Longo's interviews on being a FA have been really interesting.

 

[MsBetsy]

As horrible as this case is and as horrible as CW and his family are it's pretty amazing to see how many good kind people there are. They far outweigh the bad people in this case. Friends, neighbors, SWs family, NUA, the Thayers. These are good, thoughtful, compassionate people. They do exist

It gives us a great feeling watching those videos and seeing all the people who contributed to the investigation. It's like watching a movie when the heroes come in and save the day and you just want to jump up and clap. Imo

 

[Seenit]

I know others have pointed this out before, but I just around got to watching this video where the tracking dog lady officer is there and they are going around the house trying to find items that would have the girls' scent or Shanann's scent on them. They needed items that CW had not touched at all. About midway through the video Dieter (the family dog) starts howling and whimpering as if he is in pain. At first I thought he was smelling the scent of the tracking dog on the lady officer. Then I watched it again and noticed that Dieter really started barking when CW went near the room where Dieter was crated. At one point the lady officer does talk to Dieter and says "it's okay" and Dieter barks and howls more at that. This may sound crazy but I feel like Dieter was trying to tell her what happened. I think Dieter knew what CW did.

Another thing I had not seen mentioned yet is at about 9 minutes in the officer asked CW about friends who have reached out to him about the disappearance. And CW says he has heard from people he had not talked to in years and "they all know, Facebook's a machine." The female officer in the background says "that's good" and CW keeps talking like he doesn't hear her and says how FB reaches all parts of the world. Then it sounds like CW says "It's a great machine, most days, Except for this type of stuff." He seems to be really contorting his face and holding back his anger as he says that. It's so dumbfounding to me to see these glimpses of the real CW slipping through.

Interesting observation.

Also, honestly....the fact he mentions multiple times about missing having chicken nuggets thrown at him. Who's kids do that. I wouldn't find that funny. Seems strange and boundary-less.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Re:the whole idea that SW said something to CW that "triggered" him or "pushed a button", etc. I can't engage in that kind of conversation because no matter how it's worded, it always sounds like SHE was somehow at fault. And I don't believe that. She could have quietly come home and went to bed and he'd have still killed her. I firmly believe he had this planned out before she ever left NC. There were no buttons being pushed, no triggers being flipped, etc. I agree with the idea that he'd made his mind up right about the time that he had a personality flip and assured her that things were going to change. THAT was the lightbulb moment.

Agree, his decision to murder was not a decision made because of her perceived treatment of him that others went so crazy discussing. Normal people don’t have that button to push or switch to flip. IDK how those people who still argue that can look at all these videos and his total lack of grief for his children and think this was about the dynamics between him and Shanann

 

[mtnlites]

Interesting observation.

Also, honestly....the fact he mentions multiple times about missing having chicken nuggets thrown at him. Who's kids do that. I wouldn't find that funny. Seems strange and boundary-less.

I think it's weird that a lot of the things he said in reference to his kids were things that aren't necessarily positive. Calling one a "rampage", talking about them not finishing dinner, having nuggets thrown at him, etc. I've been in the situation where I've been super worried about my kids, or I've been talking about my dead child, and almost by instinct I go straight to the GOOD stuff: their laughs, the cute things they say, the way they snuggle when they sleep, etc. It was odd, to me, that he went straight into the disciplinary memories.

 

[scdiv]

This is the first police cam video ever recorded in the Watts case. Officer Coonrod arrives at the home and speaks with NUA.

Poor NUA. My chest was actually tightening up watching this. You can just see it in her demeanor that she was grasping more and more the reality of what had happened. It's like a live time glimpse as she was reconciling that CW likely killed his family. Just horrible. And good for her, she did not back down. She was calling him out in front of the police on his inconsistent remarks, what he had told different friends, remarking loudly that the neighbor said NO ONE left the house but Chris, that Shanann would never leave without her phone. And had to stand there and look at that monster knowing he was a murderer.

And listen to Dieter's snarling barking. He effing hates CW. He knows.

Interesting that CW made a point to say the blankies were gone and "they don't go anywhere without them." I feel like that was seriously his big mastermind plan. That's probably why he took them that morning so he could claim that they don't go anywhere without them. Forget phones, wallets, license, meds, shoes. Thank goodness he didn't have time to do more staging, even though it means we don't get the pleasure of seeing his total incompetence and discomfort and freak outs as it all unravels in front of him.