GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[AgeofAquaruis]

We heard earlier that apparently CW is passing the hours away reading the Bible.

That's funny. I was thinking I bet He 'finds'Jesus in there.

 

[NuttMegg]

omg just the still of this shot is priceless.
this is by far my favourite.
I thought nothing would beat I like these shirts a lot lol
but man this baby is so good you have to watch it a few times because I wanna see the neighbour eye balling him but I wanna see chris *advertiser censored* himself lmao

hopefully @PommyMommy has it archived into media thread?!!! for our viewing pleasure

I wanted that guy to just haul off and punch CW. I wonder what the conversation was when he returned to his house and spoke with his wife.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

She'll never see her kid again, he has morphed into something else, something evil, you can see it in his last mug shot.

He looks like Pee-Wee Herman in his last mug shot.
jmo

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I think they were able to retrieve all the deleted texts.

I hope so. Wonder when they'll pounce.

 

[NuttMegg]

The civil case against CW.

Shan’ann’s estate is suing CW for the wrongful death of SW, Bella, CeCe and the early termination of the pregnancy with Nico. The family will probably never receive any money. If however CW came into any money, they would be able to claim all of it. The family want to add exemplary or punitive allegations after the appropriate time in which they can do that so basically give them treble damages, 3 times what they would normally get.

The family say they are doing this to ensure CW never receives a penny as a result of the deaths. His life in prison would be more comfortable if he had money in his commissary account to spend on food items, use it to buy favours from other inmates or pay inmates for protection.

The court imposed restitution. In CO if you’re in the Dept. of Corrections and have a restitution order against you, the Dept. of Corrections will take roughly 50% of whatever you have on your books every month. Without money you are unable to even buy toothpaste, or a toothbrush and would have to wait until someone was leaving prison gave you his. Eeww.

I only wish to add that I hope someone in the Watts family reads this board. Little sis probably does. What an eye opener she's in for. The family and NK all need to change their names and move somewhere, anywhere, out of sight and out of mind.

I wish that guy would spring a little $$ and pay some teenager to come in and fix his audio.

 

[Tortoise]

From November 19:

“His motive was simple, your honor,” Rourke said in Weld County District Court, as Chris sat behind him, looking down and noticeably shaking his leg during most of the hearing.

“He had a desire for a fresh start: to begin a relationship with a new love that overpowered all decency and feelings for his wife, his daughters and his unborn son,” Rourke said.
Wanting 'Fresh Start,' Chris Watts Murdered Family — Then Asked Realtor About Selling Their Home

The thing is though, IMO, that is a very simplified explanation for what he wanted to achieve but it doesn't begin to explain why he chose this route over another, or how a human father could detach or never form attachment in the first place. I think these kinds of cold-blooded plotted murders that leave the families and friends stunned in disbelief need more explanation than the standard motives of sex or money. Those things don't cause one to be able to kill the children you bathed, fed and kissed goodnight only a few hours earlier. That is why we need to be able to look at the creation of the monster without being criticized for blaming the parents or the family dynamics.

It was so much more than the affair - that was like a mere pinprick in this case - IMO. Family finances too. That doesn't cause people to kill children they love, and stuff their bodies into trash bags and oil tanks. I think the answer is they are removed from already - or have the ability to remove themselves with a triggering event from - feelings of love and horror. They can flip a switch inside.

There is only one person that I would say he does have a feeling that might resemble love for and that is his dad. Even that might not be love in the accepted sense, but a feeling of responsibility towards ensuring his father is maintained. Maintained is the closest I can get to describing it, as opposed to being destroyed. Perhaps he, CW, was annihilated as a child and his father's annihilation by his mother (and others, including Shanann rejecting RW after nutgate) was an ongoing struggle that had to be prevented. I don't know, I'm going off my feelings and not education in the matter. I feel nutgate was more instrumental in what happened than any of us realize. That was the dagger he talked of. Maybe he turned the dagger around on the family that rejected his father. Maybe he wanted to protect his dad, psychologically and not even knowingly. I said before I think that was the turning point and he demonized them all following that incident, already having the experience of being able to break attachments - as he did long ago with his mother. Nutgate happened in Shanann's second week away, not the last week that CW went out there.

MOO

 

[Bothsides]

Thank Goodness for the closing of the thread.. I was able to finally make it here.


The neighbor's vid is GOLD! Thanks everyone for posting it.

I feel like the community may overall be on high alert because so much has happened in Co.

I watched and read so much with my jaw dropped, because I have never seen anything like all of their willingness to call BS!
In a time of such robotic people.. each of them used human gut and emotion to contribute to bringing that killer down.
The neighbor's narration, reenactments, and precision with his remote were GLORIOUS!

Inmate Watts told LE he had slept down there a couple of times. I'm wondering if his "sleeping in the basement" merely consisted of him going down there to call NK (maybe a pretend work-out for Shanann's benefit?) and then sleeping in the master bedroom as usual. That corresponds to what Shanann described - that everything was normal before the trip to NC.

Disclaimer: Yes, I know we can't believe everything he says.

MOO

BBM +1 on this.
They did the SD trip mid June & then she left for NC. Iirc.. He made that makeshift batcave to prove his story to his mistress and have privacy for his FT dates. I'm sure the girls had free reign all upstairs so it was easier.

I don't think CW went into a rage when he killed SW because I believe she was asleep when he killed her. I don't think there was a big fight and he lunged at her and strangled her. Neither had defense wounds. It was a calm quiet kill. IMO he kept saying "rage" because he thought that made it sound better as in "I was just so angry at seeing her killing the kids I went into a rage and lashed out at her. I didn't know what I was doing" Blah blah blah. Lies.

BBM

There was nothing in discovery to indicate that she went home "pissed". In fact she just wanted to get home to lovingly hold him. And really, SW said something "button pushingly nasty"? That's a gross thing to say. MOO.

BBM I hate the term pushing buttons. Idk if it was said to be gross or mean in this context though.

I hope SW got the chance to tell him what she thought, he deserved it! Of course, the children didn’t, but wish they could have, too. Anyway, strangulation just seems so anger filled and violent to me. Like you have to be out of your mind, psycho to actually go through with it. But, maybe I’ve seen too many movies.

And none of us know if she said something nasty to him to trigger him. This feels like victim blaming to me. Like she did or said something to set him off.

I don’t get why in order for this monster to kill his whole family he either had to be on drugs or SW provoked him into a rage. Chris Watts is not special. He’s just one of many FA’s. None of them have a good “reason” for what they did. So why does there have to be a reason for Chris? We are normal people so we are never going to understand these men.

The reason is there. I forgot to quote the post with his attorney stating he wanted a new life. And it is there for most of them. Even if it isn't reasonable.




To all of the quoted.
He HAD something to kill his family over although we may not like it.
I too would love if SW got to tell him a piece of her mind.. but it does not mean she caused the deaths of herself and children in anyway or could do anything to avoid it. He had his mind made up.



I am trying to look at it all from the perspective of everyone only knowing bits and pieces like myself because I haven't combed over every piece of the case.
The lifers here(people who have been here since the case started) are who I tend to "listen" to.
However, I still do enough digging to validate or discredit my own thoughts &with what I do know from reading threads and docs is that CW had motive and the motive was a new life.

I would almost wager he was sobbing when he did it. Not raging. (I need to go back to that vid when he mentioned it to his dad and when I do, I can better describe my thoughts on the whole rage topic) Not crying because of the what he was doing but sobbing because he's what I call a punk. He probably had his mom, dad and NKs voices in his head while committing those horrible acts.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I want to ask about an important post by Thinker Belle in Thread#63 pg 36, post #718 .

She notes on NK’s Verizon Phone Bill in Discovery #1 that

NK made a phone call FROM Frederick at 6:16 am the morning of the murders, August 13.

That’s right. NK was in Frederick not long after
CW left his home in Frederick at 5:37 am with the bodies in his truck.

It was a one minute call to Mystery Couch Surfer Jim’s out of state phone number. Which means she was not with Jim in her rental home in Thornton.

What the heck was she doing in Frederick at 6:16 am the morning of the murders?
Anadarko is not in Frederick.
NK does not live in Frederick.
Mystery Couch Surfer Jim’s mobile number has an area code from Millwaukee, Wisconsin area. He is not local. He most likely does not live in Frederick.

PommyMommy can you verify this was not mentioned anywhere else in Discovery nor in NK’s interviews? I don’t remember seeing it or hearing it anywhere.

Tortoise, how does this fit the event timeline?

Um, guys, this is bizarre.


ETA: I don’t know how to link to Thinker Belle, PommyMommy And Tortoise.

This.
Holy Mole. Good sleuthing. That. Blows a huge hole in the lies.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

This is why I don't understand Trisha saying that with more staging time, Watt's might have got away with this crime

SW's body was always going to be found in the shallow grave at CERVI 319

There is simply no way to deal with all the mistakes he made in the staging.

And this is overall the problem with staging the crime scene in the first place.

I agree, he would not have got away with it but I do agree with more time he would have disposed of her phone , purse, moved her car while being videoed by the neighbors camera, moved Shananns body to a more secure location while taking selfies to prove his love to NK.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Wasn't it great that his father tried to demonstrate how crazy Shanann was by sending that pic and it turned out that his disgusting son sent it from his phone.
We know where CW got his stupid from.

Every chance they get they bash Shannan,every time it comes back at them. Like spit in the wind.

 

[Madison418]

That poor neighbor was so freaked out at the way CW was acting! I think he realized right then and there what CW had done. I would have passed right out from the stress...imagine having that in your living room!

Yeah, I cannot imagine how he was feeling. So conflicted! It's like the guy is standing in your living room and you don't want to believe it but it couldn't be more obvious

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree - it's a very important shift in behavior. There was a lot going on August 9th. CW took the day off and Shanann went to Arizona.

Pg 1914 (Discovery pg 2109) - August 9th

• Shanann told Sara that CW agreed "to go away next weekend, just us."
• Shanann asked CW why he canceled his FB account. He didn't answer.
• CW searched for prices on an Audi Q7.
• Shanann told Utoft and Cassie that CW wants to move to Brighton. CW wants to wait until Monday, but the baby will be named "Niko Lee Watts." Talk with Chris she just had "Has been the best talk yet."
• CW kissed her and told her he loved her.
• Shanann told Sara that CW agreed to counseling, agreed to read the book she ordered, and that he would write her a letter.

On the next page in the discovery is the photo of the doll that CW sent to Shanann and the letter that she wrote to him.

Pg 14 (Discovery pg 59)

• Shanann told her friend Christina on Friday 8/10 that she was having a baby boy and was super excited. Shanann said Chris was willing to go into therapy with her and they had planned to go to Aspen.

I think that was when he didn't seem very interested in going to look for an apartment the following week. He probably figured there would be no rush since his wife and kids would have "left" him at that point. Or he figured Nickol would let him move in with her. Imo

 

[mrjitty]

I agree, he would not have got away with it but I do agree with more time he would have disposed of her phone , purse, moved her car while being videoed by the neighbors camera, moved Shananns body to a more secure location while taking selfies to prove his love to NK.

Moving the phone is a real problem because it was left on, so had ping.

Ditto I think he can't drive the car somewhere.

The time for her to go "missing" has to be Monday morning

I agree he would have trashed the other items and ideally packed away bags

 

[mrjitty]

This is the first police cam video ever recorded in the Watts case. Officer Coonrod arrives at the home and speaks with NUA.

Just wow

I would love to know what he did when he was inside the house by himself.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

They are both manipulators.

It was certainly enough to hold her interest though! Yet another form of manipulation by Chris Watts.

They a both master manipulators.

 

[Sallyo’malley]

This.
Holy Mole. Good sleuthing. That. Blows a huge hole in the lies.

Wow! Where can we find this in Discovery? I haven’t been able to download it

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Usually I wait hours in the morning for the thread to open. Now it's open and nobody is here.
Does anyone know if Watts location will be revealed or will it be kept secret?

I think it will get out somehow.

 

[NuttMegg]

This is the first police cam video ever recorded in the Watts case. Officer Coonrod arrives at the home and speaks with NUA.

Anyone remember the long discussion about whether or not there is a door on the side that goes into the garage? Apparently not. Those 2 below grade large windows probably provide light to the basement (?) But there is no normal door to the garage on the side.

ETA that seems like a bizarre construction technique, IMO. Those metal-clad dugouts are going to collect snow like crazy, and the lip of the window is only a couple of inches above the base level of that dugout. (cavity, hole, whatever they call it these days)

 

[mrjitty]

I want to ask about an important post by Thinker Belle in Thread#63 pg 36, post #718 .

She notes on NK’s Verizon Phone Bill in Discovery #1 that

NK made a phone call FROM Frederick at 6:16 am the morning of the murders, August 13.

Does anyone have the page ref for this?

 

[MsBetsy]

I also think he killed the girls first, because, if even one of them woke up while he was strangling SW, it would have startled him, giving him a moment to release SW and it wouldn't have taken SW long to scream, waking the other girl, and now with both kids awake crying, and SW screaming and calling 911. No way CW was risking that. He had to have smothered the girls first..

Also, Bella always woke up in the morning and got in bed with them. She had already gotten out of bed twice earlier to ask if her mom was home yet. I would think he would not want to take the risk. I don't think she knew he had killed them, however. I think one of her friends had said she probably wouldn't have gone in the girls room because she wouldn't have wanted to disturb them or wake them. Imo