Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #38

[Sjm_qc]

IMO, the only help Ring would have been in this situation would be to give us a pic/video of the suspect and possibly then aid in identification. Possibly, we could have been sure that he took Jayme alive, if the camera was still functioning during their departure.

True, except that given how he was dressed (balaclava/mask etc) - see criminal complaint - I’m not sure it would have helped.

I speculate that LE had something to believe that JC was still alive, they just didn’t say exactly what. IMO, possibly drag marks (again, I’m basing this on the criminal complaint).

 

[Waterdog]

Even if someone in your family expresses some characteristics of mental illness, what do you suggest they should do? There is no help for uninsured people in the US. He tried to get into the military, he likely is not disabled enough to file for SSI. If a 21 year old family member can't hold down a job and seems "off" - there is almost nothing you can do. You can't even legally take their firearms. They have done nothing wrong - yet. The only thing you can do is wait for them to break the law so you can get the police involved. That's it.

Exactly. This isn’t Minority Report.

 

[Mistermagoo]

I tend to agree with this. I'd rather have police officers focused on helping people. Vehicle license plate/registration issues are pretty low on the list of things police officers should worry about IMO. Obviously it would have made a difference in this case, but that's not the norm.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that they should have investigated that car on the way to the crime scene. If it was noticeable enough that the responding officer puts it IN THE CRIMINAL COMPLAINT that he seen a maroon Taurus then why was that not made public 3 months ago? THAT ONE TIP that they drained into our heads for three months could have come much, much sooner. Who knows what horrors that man did to her that could have possibly been stopped so much sooner. Thank God Jayme was able to save herself.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don’t know what they’d plea down to..
I’ve always thought most of what he’s doing is to gloat or seek insanity defense...

If he’s playing monopoly by himself while jayme is locked under his bed... I would be fine with insanity if there was 0 chance he ever leaves the facility... or is outside bars...
Most his actions seem insane... talking about pool of blood like it’s spit juice....

Military 4 weeks
2 jobs in lasted only day

Clearly most people thought insane..wasn’t just 30 min late to work ...so we know why 2 jobs were terminated?

The only way the DA would even consider a plea is if he agreed to the maximum punishment of LWOP.

I really dont see him wanting to plea. Look at how many cases which have detailed confessions that are supported by an overwhelming about of solid evidence? Yet these kind of suspects seem to want the limelight and will plead NG.

He is very diabolical and evil but the insanity defense just wont pass judicial muster since its painfully obvious he took great steps to not be caught. This shows clearly he has met the judicial threshold standard of knowing right from wrong.

Imo so he doesnt have a leg to stand on if he claims he is mentally insane.

Being a sociopath which I believe he is... is not recognized as a mental illness by the courts when it comes to being mentally insane.

In fact if his IQ is tested I believe he will have a higher IQ than average. These kind of criminals often do.

Imo

 

[Karinna]

Can't help but wonder about the upbringing. And if true- the foster care experience. Something went wrong somewhere apparently.

BBM,Yes it did. Here is an article by a Criminal forensic psychologist about why young people kill.
(quote)
For all of the theory and speculation about why kids commit murder, the answers do not differ greatly from what we have learned about adults who kill. With few exceptions, adolescents are just as capable of knowing that what they did was wrong.

As with adults, some adolescents kill because they are chronically aggressive, cold and unfeeling. Some will kill because they "explode" in response to a history of "over-controlled hostility." Some will lash out after wallowing in feelings of victimization and after nurturing longstanding resentments. Others kill because they have been traumatized and are unable to tolerate their existence. Some who are immature and narcissistic become “obsessed.” Deprived of love or gratification, they feel justified while escalating to violence. Less common, but often more dramatic are the killings committed by the psychotic, those with disturbed and disordered thoughts and only a tenuous grasp on reality.
Everyday Psychology: Why do kids commit murder?

 

[Sjm_qc]

Studies on young males committing homicides show they all
came from homes where parents or caretakers were rejecting
of the male, showed deprivation (emotional and physical)
and generally negligent of the child's needs.
In most cases it is faulty upbringing that causes these crimes.

I’m not saying you are wrong, but could you add some links/sources for these studies?

 

[NervousNellie]

I agree w/ you.
There were many, many red flags that were overlooked by
numerous people who had been in his life. IMO.
His parents, first off, probably knew about his many dysfunctional characteristics. But we don't know his parents
and maybe they 'excused' them or covered them up or ignored
them. My guess is the parents just didn't care enough to get
their son on the right path. So many parents think that once
the child turns 18 or so, the parent no longer feels responsible
for them.
As for the schools, first, High School kids are usually too young
or inexperienced in life to really see red flags. If he caused
no disturbances in school, teachers won't see them either.
Military record- Huge red flag here. Again nobody bothered
to take this seriously.
Most of the serious crime perps we can study, all had some red flags but no one took notice or cared to intervene. And most
definitely came from dysfunctional families.
moo.

Respectfully, please tell me how you think his parents could have gotten him "on the right path"? And why would you think they "just didn't care enough" to do it? Please enlighten us; I'm sure all parents of troubled children would be ecstatic if you'd share your ideas on how to set their kids on the right path.

Why is his military record a "huge red flag"? I know that many people "wash out" of military training and they do not all become homicidal, kidnapping crazies. Heck, you can complete the training and still be a Homicidal Crazy (lots of evidence here at WS).

More concerning that washing out of military training, IMO, is his work history (or lack of). I don't understand starting several jobs and only lasting one or two days. I'm guessing he didn't like being told what to do, or didn't like working? Or didn't like feeling stupid (because we can all feel stupid on day one of a new job)?

 

[1&2&3]

What did he mean by casing out the place - really just driving by slowly to get a good visual of the home and surroundings?

Wouldn’t he want to know such things as:
*an alarm system
*location of exits in house
*layout of house (looking in windows during day when parents worked)
*checking/watching house to see number of occupants
*getting an idea of family’s habits and movements
*number of regular cars at house

You all may have more to add. These are basic things I would want to know if my plan was to break into a house, let alone plan on kidnapping a person out of the home.

 

[Evinrude]

Obviously a disturbed person JP is.
Think about this, going to work, new job, first or second day. Assuming he wanted to get along with his life.
Then on one of those first few days of work he sees Jayme. Talk about a turn of events.

“Let’s see here, money, freedom, a future.
You know what, screw this working for a living. I think I will abduct this child I just seen boarding a bus and kill whoever is in my way. “
Are you kidding me?
Hollywood couldn’t even come up with that script as it is too senseless.
Moo

 

[Jordan10]

I just listened to the entire 30 minutes of the 911 call. Pretty amazing, and heroic group of people. Sounds like Jayme encountered some good people upon her rescue, and was able to reacclimate to life a bit with caring adults, some kids and two dogs.

 

[WanderingGypsy]

I may have missed some things because I haven't had time to read every single post in this thread, and I know most on here aren't really bashing LE but as far as not releasing the information on the Taurus, it is a pretty common car. They didn't have a license plate number to go on and likely didn't see well enough to get a description of the driver. There's a probability that they followed that lead privately as far as they could go with it. To examine every dark maroon or red Taurus would be a lengthy task. And putting it in the public could lead to thousands of unfounded tips. They also I believe thought the perp was someone more local. I don't know that they would have tracked him down any sooner even with that information. Hindsight is 20/20 and they may really be beating themselves up about it now behind the scenes there's probably a lot we will never know. MOO
Even looking at registered owners for it, it was registered to his sister so it probably wouldn't have raised many alarms. Again MOO. Its

 

[gregjrichards]

Kidnapped teenager Jayme Closs, whose parents were murdered during her abduction, will not have to testify in court, prosecutors said today.

Kidnapped teenager Jayme Closs will not have to give evidence in court against her abductor | Daily Mail Online

I’m really glad about this.

 

[Tim Constas]

It isn't always that something went wrong. It could very well just be that something is wrong with him. Monsters are sometimes just born.

Agreed. JTP is the one to place blame on.

 

[Falcon500]

It’s easy to sit back now and second guess the police for what they didn’t do on the way to the scene. Second guessers have the luxury of knowing what happened in the house and the eventual outcome. The officers responding to the house knew almost nothing except for a 911 hang up call with the sound of screaming. Believe it or not in real police work this kind of call is nothing to get excited about because it happens from time to time.

Some posters are of the opinion that the police should have stopped or recorded the tag number of the red Ford. Let’s examine the option of recording the tag number. Since this car didn’t have a front tag it would have meant that police car #1, traveling at 60-70 mph, meeting the getaway car traveling at 40-50 mph, would have a closing distance of about 110 mph. Think about that. It would have taken police car #1 a minute to turn around and then maybe 2 minutes to catch up with the red Ford. Complete waste of time because 9999 times out of 10,000 the occupants of the Ford would have been Aunt Sally and her neighbor returning from church.

What about the other cars on the road going in the opposite direction? Should they all be stopped? Of course not.

Then you run the chance of a 4th Anendment issue. Let’s say the Ford is stopped with Jayme in the trunk with absolutely no probable cause. None except for the fact that it was traveling in the opposite direction of a house where (in the minds of the police) no crime had been committed. Had that been the case the entire case could have been thrown out of court due to a 4th Amendment violation. No probable cause to stop the car and as a result everything that flows from the traffic stop is inadmissible and you would have a guy walk from two murder charges and a Kidnapping charge.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

I hope he's impotent.

I was considering that as well.

 

[human]

This call brought tears many a time. Such heroes and heroines.

Somewhere around 15 to 17 minutes in, there was a remark that when he had people or friends to the home, they did not appear to recognize her or know who she was (paraphrasing). I think there is much we do not know yet. Was he on his own in this.... And did others know? Will we ever know...

Brave girl and awesome people who helped her.

That is weird. Was she visible to some people?

 

[bizzle2]

I don’t think people have an issue with LE not stopping the red car en route to the crime scene as they didn’t know beforehand what the where heading into, but rather them not mentioning a red Taurus with its complete description, as stated by the LE who initially recalled seeing it, along with the other cars of interest.

I think that's a fair question to ask. I could think of a few reasons, but they would just be pure speculation. I hope they are asked at some point.

 

[Quill]

I wonder what made the Dad think it was the police outside?

I have been thinking about this, too. My best guess is being awakened suddenly in the middle of the night to someone banging on the door and then possibly seeing the perp dressed in dark clothing he might have thought it was a drug raid on the wrong house. He probably wasn't thinking, especially in that just awakened state that a lunatic would be banging on the front door. I think most of us think that someone like that is going to forcibly break in instead of bang on the door.

The more I think about it, the crazier it all seems. I am still shaken by all of it. Serious security evaluations are going on at our home right now and we live in a very safe community. We have a home wired for a security system that we don't even use. That is about to change.

 

[Rosiebones]

It’s easy to sit back now and second guess the police for what they didn’t do on the way to the scene. Second guessers have the luxury of knowing what happened in the house and the eventual outcome. The officers responding to the house knew almost nothing except for a 911 hang up call with the sound of screaming. Believe it or not in real police work this kind of call is nothing to get excited about because it happens from time to time.

Some posters are of the opinion that the police should have stopped or recorded the tag number of the red Ford. Let’s examine the option of recording the tag number. Since this car didn’t have a front tag it would have meant that police car #1, traveling at 60-70 mph, meeting the getaway car traveling at 40-50 mph, would have a closing distance of about 110 mph. Think about that. It would have taken police car #1 a minute to turn around and then maybe 2 minutes to catch up with the red Ford. Complete waste of time because 9999 times out of 10,000 the occupants of the Ford would have been Aunt Sally and her neighbor returning from church.

What about the other cars on the road going in the opposite direction? Should they all be stopped? Of course not.

Then you run the chance of a 4th Anendment issue. Let’s say the Ford is stopped with Jayme in the trunk with absolutely no probable cause. None except for the fact that it was traveling in the opposite direction of a house where (in the minds of the police) no crime had been committed. Had that been the case the entire case could have been thrown out of court due to a 4th Amendment violation. No probable cause to stop the car and as a result everything that flows from the traffic stop is inadmissible and you would have a guy walk from two murder charges and a Kidnapping charge.

Well, that is certainly convincing !!!

 

[Karinna]

Kidnapped teenager Jayme Closs, whose parents were murdered during her abduction, will not have to testify in court, prosecutors said today.

Kidnapped teenager Jayme Closs will not have to give evidence in court against her abductor | Daily Mail Online

I’m really glad about this.

That is good, and was hoping she wouldn't have to be put through any of that.
If and when the case does go to Trial it probably won't be for a few years anyway, and at least the perp. is where he belongs.