CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #36 *ARREST*

[jaspermac]

Fair enough but please help me out, here, as I've twice asked about this with no responses:

Had the prosecution combed through the Colorado criminal code, don't you think there's a good chance that she could have been charged with several (maybe four or five) crimes, assuring she wouldn't get off so lightly in a deal? I realize things have to be given up in a plea deal but if she'd been charged with more, they could have still offered a reduction in charges & punishment while still assuring she did some real time.

I don't know what the statutes are. I'm not a lawyer. However, I see a few things that might be very illegal that she might have been charged with. Some things that come to mind, in addition to the tampering charge:

Accessory after the fact.
Obstruction of justice.
Destruction of evidence.
Stealing evidence.
Taking evidence across state lines.
Impersonating KB for nefarious purposes.
Wire or telecom fraud for the texts.
Etc.

Any of that stuff in the criminal code or anything along those lines or similar? My point being, you've got this accomplice that you need to dish on Frazee, in order to get him but you want her punished, too, so you pile on everything you legitimately can in order to be able to drop some of those charges for a "deal", she faces reduced time and is still motivated to testify but still goes to prison. IOW, in some deal she may get her potential prison time reduced by half but still goes away for at least five years (or along those lines).

Why would you assume they didn't put together the worst collection of charges possible? Of course they did because that gives them the most leverage to get her to talk.

Prosecution isn't out there to let people off the hook, if anything they want the piper paid. (based on my experience with youth at juvenile court)

 

[nwmouse]

Makes you wonder about her comment about her thinking that PF might have killed before- did she squeak that out by accident? Who's to say that they both haven't conspired before to harm or kill someone else?

For some reason, I am truly stuck on that comment of hers.

I don't know if PF's killed before.
IMO she let that comment out just to emphasize that she's soooo scared of him, "shaking like a Chihuahua" (as Jodi Arias famously said in TA's trial). That she did his bidding under extreme terror and duress. Hard to know what's truthful when we have two people involved in a heinous murder. Both lack moral turpitude, both are liars.

Maybe PF has killed before and maybe he hasn't. Hopefully the details will emerge at trial.

These two are peas in a pod.

MOO

 

[Artis]

Boohoo. She's probably upset about her mugshot going viral.

I just have to butt in and say I find the issue of her looks to be petty. I think she's a good looking woman and didn't look inappropriate for court. Yeah, she could lose 50LBS but so what? It's her character and her dirty deeds I care about. Book/cover, you know?

 

[Steelslady]

Thanks for making my point, which is that things are rarely “simple”. And yet how many people out there shake their heads at a story of someone who stays with an abuser and they say, “I myself would never have stayed if I were in that situation.”

I’ve had situations in my life where I judged others and didn’t think I could possibly fall into the traps they did. Then life happened, and poor choices were made, and I was humbled. A lot of us don’t realize that we are just one or two choices away from devastation, until those choices have already been made.

Hey listen- just want to give you a shout out, to say I respect the hell out of you for standing strong on your feelings, even if you and I don't agree. Many cases in the past, we have agreed, and you're always respectful in your posts, which is much appreciated in this case here.

Props to you for standing strong in your convictions on this- while many of us clearly don't agree with you, I think we can all agree that you've been nothing but classy in your posts and you haven't attacked anyone, no matter how strong your opinion is.

I just felt the need to say this, as I admire you for fighting pretty much alone tonight.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

I completely agree!

Why do you think others believe KK was the "instigator," "mastermind," and that PF killed for her? I don't think PF does for anybody but himself -- he even deprived his daughter of her own mother.

Seattle....The question that I keep coming back to is why? If it had been a crime of passion, PF killed KB in the heat of the moment, I wouldn't have a doubt about motive, but with the facts that we are currently aware of, I see no logical motive for PF to want KB dead. I do however see a huge reason for KK to want KB dead. I see motive plain as day for KK. That is why I think that KK may be way more involved than is being acknowledged.

 

[susiQ]

I personally think that KK meant absolutely nothing to PF, except as a useful tool to do his bidding.

I don't think he had any intention of getting serious with KK.

If he had gotten away with the murder of KB he'd be riding off into the sunset with somebody else. I don't believe PF is capable of loving anyone except himself.

IMO he's a narcissistic sociopath who is used to manipulating people into doing his bidding.

This certainly doesn't let KK off in the least. She went along with it willingly, imo, and only squealed when she was nailed and realized that PF would leave her dangling out to dry. Then she turned. Quickly. Birds of a feather etc.

The match made in hell is burning.

MOO

YES, YES and YES!! She only helped when she got NAILED. There is NO indication that she willingly offered her help to LE in the initial investigation into KB's disappearance although she KNEW KB was dead. Take that for what it is. She hoped PF would get away with it, and she assisted him in trying to make that happen, and thought they would live "happily ever after." I referred to PF as a dirt bag in an earlier post. Make that two dirt bags.

 

[Artis]

I think some people truly believe that the prosecution is getting the raw end of the deal with this plea agreement, but I really do not believe this to be the case.

I think the fact that KK was quickly located and taken in shows that they've had her from the get go; I think they laid out for her exactly what they could and would do to her if she didn't cooperate, and I think that's why she did. I do not believe this woman has a moral compass or a heart, I don't think she talked because she felt bad. She only talked because she knew what the alternative was.

I also believe they have the phone and purse. I think KK has been pinpointing where the body could be, as I believe that is the only reason they would search a landfill; landfill searches can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and usually are not done for things like a purse or phone.

This broad has been talking since the first day LE approached her. Whatever she gave them made them certain enough of KK's death and PF's involvement that they were able to arrest him on 12/21 without a body. They've been hanging onto her since then, weeks and weeks and weeks of negotiations...she gives them a bit, they verify it, then move on to the next.

This is not a blind plea deal where KK said, yeah well I know some things, and I'll tell you what they are at trial if you give me a deal. LE and the DA already know absolutely everything they need, and it's all been verified, and only then was she allowed to actually plea to the charge they gave her.

DA May sounds like an ultra ethical, super on-top-of-it DA; I am excited to see what he delivers on 2/19. Hopefully people will be a tad less upset, but I do understand why the outrage today. She's disgusting.

Do you have any thoughts on why she wasn't arrested at the outset?

Because she plead to the tampering charge, does that absolutely mean she was given immunity on any others?

 

[Love Never Fails]

Fair enough but please help me out, here, as I've twice asked about this with no responses:

Had the prosecution combed through the Colorado criminal code, don't you think there's a good chance that she could have been charged with several (maybe four or five) crimes, assuring she wouldn't get off so lightly in a deal? I realize things have to be given up in a plea deal but if she'd been charged with more, they could have still offered a reduction in charges & punishment while still assuring she did some real time.

I don't know what the statutes are. I'm not a lawyer. However, I see a few things that might be very illegal that she might have been charged with. Some things that come to mind, in addition to the tampering charge:

Accessory after the fact.
Obstruction of justice.
Destruction of evidence.
Stealing evidence.
Taking evidence across state lines.
Impersonating KB for nefarious purposes.
Wire or telecom fraud for the texts.
Etc.

Any of that stuff in the criminal code or anything along those lines or similar? My point being, you've got this accomplice that you need to dish on Frazee, in order to get him but you want her punished, too, so you pile on everything you legitimately can in order to be able to drop some of those charges for a "deal", she faces reduced time and is still motivated to testify but still goes to prison. IOW, in some deal she may get her potential prison time reduced by half but still goes away for at least five years (or along those lines).

Agree with you. I think this is all having a great lawyer. Sad really.

 

[MassGuy]

Seattle....The question that I keep coming back to is why? If it had been a crime of passion, PF killed KB in the heat of the moment, I wouldn't have a doubt about motive, but with the facts that we are currently aware of, I see no logical motive for PF to want KB dead. I do however see a huge reason for KK to want KB dead. I see motive plain as day for KK. That is why I think that KK may be way more involved than is being acknowledged.

We are looking at this blind.

On its face, we can easily come up with a potential motive for KK, and not for PF.

The thing is, we know absolutely nothing about this investigation, and what it has turned up.

A couple weeks from now, we might have an answer, then again, we might never have one.

Not every murder has a clear motive, and fortunately, that’s not required in order for a jury to deliver a guilty verdict.

Sometimes it just isn’t as simple as finances, custody, jealousy, or anger.

Just because someone has a more obvious motive to commit murder, doesn’t necessarily mean a hell of a lot.

Not if the evidence points in a clear direction. I think it will.

 

[Lhughessk]

Hey listen- just want to give you a shout out, to say I respect the hell out of you for standing strong on your feelings, even if you and I don't agree. Many cases in the past, we have agreed, and you're always respectful in your posts, which is much appreciated in this case here.

Props to you for standing strong in your convictions on this- while many of us clearly don't agree with you, I think we can all agree that you've been nothing but classy in your posts and you haven't attacked anyone, no matter how strong your opinion is.

I just felt the need to say this, as I admire you for fighting pretty much alone tonight.

Appreciate that. I do wish for a bit more diversity of opinion and a little less majority shouting down the minority. But regardless, we should each continue sharing thoughts about the case and figuring it all out.

 

[Kapua]

I personally think that KK meant absolutely nothing to PF, except as a useful tool to do his bidding.

I don't think he had any intention of getting serious with KK.

If he had gotten away with the murder of KB he'd be riding off into the sunset with somebody else. I don't believe PF is capable of loving anyone except himself.

IMO he's a narcissistic sociopath who is used to manipulating people into doing his bidding.

This certainly doesn't let KK off in the least. She went along with it willingly, imo, and only squealed when she was nailed and realized that PF would leave her dangling out to dry. Then she turned. Quickly. Birds of a feather etc.

The match made in hell is burning.

MOO

Spot on. KK was 800 miles away. PF liked it that way, IMO.

KK was an idiot (among other things) to 1. not turn him into police and inform KB the first time PF solicited her, and 2. cover up the crime by transporting KB's phone, thus committing a serious felony herself and forever screwing up her own life. Def a match made in hell. It amazes me that these two nefarious morons found each other. MOO

 

[Love Never Fails]

I am seriously guessing that the solicitations were in writing such as texts/email or verbal phone calls/voice mail, etc because law enforcement knows about them. A solicitation is not the same as a friendly "I may kill my girlfriend tonight." The prosecution cannot have it both ways. They cannot charge solicitations involving KK but say she knows nothing about his plans plus participate in evidence tampering.

So am I understanding you to say that when KKL was solicited by text she couldn’t have reached out to LE? She sure could. DA didn’t charge her. They charged PF. What I was referring to was KKL keeping her mouth shut and KB being murdered. Maybe I misunderstood what you are trying to say.

 

[katydid23]

And I hope you would agree that I am also being respectful in my own comments as well. And I am not “defending her”. I’m saying there are possible scenarios that make this a little more gray than the black and white many believe. I’ve said before, she could actually turn out to be evil and horrible when we know more of the facts. She could also turn out to be someone who made very poor decisions with tragic consequences, mitigated by certain factors we don’t know about now, but might learn about later. All I do is state a case for wait-and-see rather than crucify-and-bury. JMO

'Wait and See' is a great attitude to have in these cases. But at this point , we have 'waited' and we have 'seen' quite a bit of damning information against KK.

We have confirmed that she did know back in September, that PF had plans to kill the mother of his latest child.

And even though she knew that, not only didn't she warn that young woman, but she continued to see the man who was planning to kill her.

And we waited long enough to see that she did indeed know that he had killed her on the 22nd, and she still continued to help him cover up the cold blooded murder.

So I am not sure what we are supposed to 'wait and see.' I took up for KK back at the start. I surmised that she may have been intimidated and bullied and coerced into going along with it, due to threats, etc.

But that was before I found out that she knew about his murder plans, and that she still traveled out of state to see him for Thanksgiving. If she was truly afraid of him, and afraid he'd harm her kids, she wouldn't have done that.

The same goes with her reaction to finding out he did kill her that day. Her kids were out of state, with their father. If she was so frightened of this guy hurting her or her kids, she had the perfect opportunity to have him arrested for murder, while her kids were in a safe place, far away from him. But she didnt do that. She aligned herself with him.

 

[srg]

Hey listen- just want to give you a shout out, to say I respect the hell out of you for standing strong on your feelings, even if you and I don't agree. Many cases in the past, we have agreed, and you're always respectful in your posts, which is much appreciated in this case here.

Props to you for standing strong in your convictions on this- while many of us clearly don't agree with you, I think we can all agree that you've been nothing but classy in your posts and you haven't attacked anyone, no matter how strong your opinion is.

I just felt the need to say this, as I admire you for fighting pretty much alone tonight.

Agree strongly with those sentiments.
@Lhughessk you’ve shared your firm convictions respectfully with so much humility. Well done.

 

[Kapua]

Hey listen- just want to give you a shout out, to say I respect the hell out of you for standing strong on your feelings, even if you and I don't agree. Many cases in the past, we have agreed, and you're always respectful in your posts, which is much appreciated in this case here.

Props to you for standing strong in your convictions on this- while many of us clearly don't agree with you, I think we can all agree that you've been nothing but classy in your posts and you haven't attacked anyone, no matter how strong your opinion is.

I just felt the need to say this, as I admire you for fighting pretty much alone tonight.

I agree completely, everyone here is entitled to his/her opinion and to be respected.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

prison is costly and LE does not seem to think she is currently a danger to anyone else

Until she meets another woman's man.
MOO

 

[gliving]

Agree with you. I think this is all having a great lawyer. Sad really.

I think both of them followed their attorneys' advice and stfu immediately.

Only interviewed with an attorney present.

 

[MassGuy]

'Wait and See' is a great attitude to have in these cases. But at this point , we have 'waited' and we have 'seen' quite a bit of damning information against KK.

We have confirmed that she did know back in September, that PF had plans to kill the mother of his latest child.

And even though she knew that, not only didn't she warn that young woman, but she continued to see the man who was planning to kill her.

And we waited long enough to see that she did indeed know that he had killed her on the 22nd, and she still continued to help him cover up the cold blooded murder.

So I am not sure what we are supposed to 'wait and see.' I took up for KK back at the start. I surmised that she may have been intimidated and bullied and coerced into going along with it, due to threats, etc.

But that was before I found out that she knew about his murder plans, and that she still traveled out of state to see him for Thanksgiving. If she was truly afraid of him, and afraid he'd harm her kids, she wouldn't have done that.

The same goes with her reaction to finding out he did kill her that day. Her kids were out of state, with their father. If she was so frightened of this guy hurting her or her kids, she had the perfect opportunity to have him arrested for murder, while her kids were in a safe place, far away from him. But she didnt do that. She aligned herself with him.

Exactly. “Wait and see” is appropriate when you are talking about someone’s specific involvement in a legal context.

But there is absolutely nothing I could learn that would make me not want to puke, when I look at this on a moral and ethical level.

Nothing is going to change the fact that she didn’t even try to save Kelsey’s life.

There is not an excuse in the world that would work for me in this regard.

I ain’t waiting for nothing.

 

[Love Never Fails]

'Wait and See' is a great attitude to have in these cases. But at this point , we have 'waited' and we have 'seen' quite a bit of damning information against KK.

We have confirmed that she did know back in September, that PF had plans to kill the mother of his latest child.

And even though she knew that, not only didn't she warn that young woman, but she continued to see the man who was planning to kill her.

And we waited long enough to see that she did indeed know that he had killed her on the 22nd, and she still continued to help him cover up the cold blooded murder.

So I am not sure what we are supposed to 'wait and see.' I took up for KK back at the start. I surmised that she may have been intimidated and bullied and coerced into going along with it, due to threats, etc.

But that was before I found out that she knew about his murder plans, and that she still traveled out of state to see him for Thanksgiving. If she was truly afraid of him, and afraid he'd harm her kids, she wouldn't have done that.

The same goes with her reaction to finding out he did kill her that day. Her kids were out of state, with their father. If she was so frightened of this guy hurting her or her kids, she had the perfect opportunity to have him arrested for murder, while her kids were in a safe place, far away from him. But she didnt do that. She aligned herself with him.

Great response for all of us. Thanks so much.

 

[jewelsmac]

I am not LE bashing. I state what is reality - like any profession, there are good ones and there are not so good ones. And you don’t get to pick. I also know and have lived in some very tight-knit communities that would not take kindly to someone they don’t know, making serious accusations against someone they DO know.

Of course , true of all professions. No one said doing the right thing is always easy. She may have met with resistance, even animosity. But she would have given that girl a shot at staying alive. Worth the effort, right?