CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[nwmouse]

Reporters were in the courtroom listening to the DA's argument and the Judge's response.

JMO

Yes they were listening and there are no mentions of SF being advised by her attorney to plead the 5th simply because she was afraid of implicating herself about a law you stated in your quote below. Which is why some of us were puzzled and asked for clarification and an actual link. Thank you for responding that you were just speculating with a JMO, as I read your post as if you were stating a fact.

BBM. It's really quite simple. The DA wanted to ask SF about an alleged fire on her property. Open burning of waste (such as plastic) has been illegal in Colorado for years. SF is the owner of the property which is why her attorney told the judge she would invoke the 5th.

JMO

IMHO SF invoking the 5th due to her attorney's advice had little to do with her being worried about the open burning of waste and plastic being illegal in Colorado, and more to do with her having information about evidence in a homicide being destroyed on her property, in which her son PF is the main suspect.

Because imho, knowledge of someone burning a dead body on one's property is far more serious than pleading the 5th in case one gets into trouble for the open burning of waste or plastic on a property.

moo.

 

[ab01]

Yes they were listening and there are no mentions of SF being advised by her attorney to plead the 5th simply because she was afraid of implicating herself about a law you stated in your quote below. Which is why some of us were puzzled and asked for clarification and an actual link. Thank you for responding that you were just speculating with a JMO, as I read your post as if you were stating a fact.



IMHO SF invoking the 5th due to her attorney's advice had little to do with her being worried about the open burning of waste and plastic being illegal in Colorado, and more to do with her having information about evidence in a homicide being destroyed on her property, in which her son PF is the main suspect.

Because imho, knowledge of burning a dead body on one's property is far more serious than pleading the 5th in case one gets into trouble for the open burning of waste or plastic on a property.

moo.

Yah I doubt SF was thinking dang it they are trying to pin some Illegal burning charges on me ....lol

 

[24Brix]

Something came to mind regarding PF and KB’s trip to tend to some cattle the night before KB was murdered. A number of years ago, my sister’s FiL was attending a horse who was having a problem (I don’t recall what it was now). He was kicked once in the head when the horse startled and it put him in the ICU for weeks. The kick broke every bone in his face and jaw, knocked out many teeth, etc. He almost lost his sight. The doctor actually said, getting kicked in the head is like letting a major league batter take a swing at you. Had the kick been higher or his head been turned to the side it probably would have killed him.

This is all my speculation only, of course, but perhaps the plan was to use the bat that evening and blame a horse or cow for the accident. (Do cattle kick like horses?) But he chickened out or KB never got out of the vehicle or was holding l’il K the entire time. So he delayed the game until the next afternoon.

Who knows? It’s still a poor plan since he’d only get one chance but it seems more logical than what he ultimately went with. Not that logic is his strong suit...

 

[ab01]

Something came to mind regarding PF and KB’s trip to tend to some cattle the night before KB was murdered. A number of years ago, my sister’s FiL was attending a horse who was having a problem (I don’t recall what it was now). He was kicked once in the head when the horse startled and it put him in the ICU for weeks. The kick broke every bone in his face and jaw, knocked out many teeth, etc. He almost lost his sight. The doctor actually said, getting kicked in the head is like letting a major league batter take a swing at you. Had the kick been higher or his head been turned to the side it probably would have killed him.

This is all my speculation only, of course, but perhaps the plan was to use the bat that evening and blame a horse or cow for the accident. (Do cattle kick like horses?) But he chickened out or KB never got out of the vehicle or was holding l’il K the entire time. So he delayed the game until the next afternoon.

Who knows? It’s still a poor plan since he’d only get one chance but it seems more logical than what he ultimately went with. Not that logic is his strong suit...

I hate to speculate and give PF that much credit TBH ...

 

[MyBelle]

Yes they were listening and there are no mentions of SF being advised by her attorney to plead the 5th simply because she was afraid of implicating herself about a law you stated in your quote below. Which is why some of us were puzzled and asked for clarification and an actual link. Thank you for responding that you were just speculating with a JMO, as I read your post as if you were stating a fact.



IMHO SF invoking the 5th due to her attorney's advice had little to do with her being worried about the open burning of waste and plastic being illegal in Colorado, and more to do with her having information about evidence in a homicide being destroyed on her property, in which her son PF is the main suspect.

Because imho, knowledge of someone burning a dead body on one's property is far more serious than pleading the 5th in case one gets into trouble for the open burning of waste or plastic on a property.

moo.

It is your SPECULATION that SF knew a dead body was being burned on her property. She hasn't been named a POI or a suspect and I seriously doubt PF told her he was burning a dead human being.

The open-burning of toxic materials has been law in Colorado for quite some time. Didn't realize a link would be demanded. Here ya go:

What materials are not allowed to be burned?Tree stumps, tires, chemicals, plastic, cut lumber, construction debris , trash. Burning of these materials produces pollution that is harmful to the environment and the health of you and your neighbors

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/default/files/AP_OB_Open-Burning-Fact-Sheet.pdf

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Nothing has changed as far as we know.

Body and remains, are being used interchangeably.

The man being interviewed, was discussing his experience searching for bodies at landfills.

No distinction was made as to the condition they were in.

I understand that, MG, but he surely made it sound like they were searching for more than ash and bone fragments that we have been led to believe. IMHO

 

[MemPat]

Like many here, I'm convinced PF had a deadly surprise planned for KB that night.

Your speculation seems reasonable since he seemed obsessed with her head getting bashed.

I've wondered if someone saw him out there and that made him abort the plan.

 

[MassGuy]

It is your SPECULATION that SF knew a dead body was being burned on her property. She hasn't been named a POI or a suspect and I seriously doubt PF told her he was burning a dead human being.

The open-burning of toxic materials has been law in Colorado for quite some time. Didn't realize a link would be demanded. Here ya go:

What materials are not allowed to be burned?Tree stumps, tires, chemicals, plastic, cut lumber, construction debris , trash. Burning of these materials produces pollution that is harmful to the environment and the health of you and your neighbors

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/default/files/AP_OB_Open-Burning-Fact-Sheet.pdf

The point wasn’t that the law doesn’t exist, merely that it would be a ridiculous concern on her part, given the nature of the crime in which she was being called to provide testimony for.

Murder pales in comparison to trash burning, and pleading the Fifth because someone else was burning trash on your property, doesn’t hold water.

The concerns were much larger than that.

 

[ajaylee]

Like many here, I'm convinced PF had a deadly surprise planned for KB that night.

Your speculation seems reasonable since he seemed obsessed with her head getting bashed.

I've wondered if someone saw him out there and that made him abort the plan.

Perhaps a dog was barking.

KK said that's what scared her off of one attempt.

 

[nwmouse]

It is your SPECULATION that SF knew a dead body was being burned on her property. She hasn't been named a POI or a suspect and I seriously doubt PF told her he was burning a dead human being.

Snipped by me for brevity.

I didn't have time to find the link which is why I clearly added JMO to my posting.

Yes, I am speculating that SF may have information about evidence being destroyed on her property involving a homicide her son is suspected in, and the DA wanted to ask her about it to which she invoked the 5th. Which is why my post above that you quoted was ended with MOO which stands for my opinion only.
I also preceded each paragraph with IMHO, which is an abbreviation for "in my humble opinion."

From what I have read in the WS forum rules we are allowed to speculate as long as we add a MOO, IMHO, JMO.

Let's agree to disagree.

Edited by me for grammar and to clear up any confusion:

I never asked you for a link to the CO waste burning law.

You were asked for a link to find out how you concluded that SF refused to testify because of the "burning waste law" that you posted below per the quote: No court documents alluded to it so I thought I may have missed something until you replied that you were merely speculating.

BBM. It's really quite simple. The DA wanted to ask SF about an alleged fire on her property. Open burning of waste (such as plastic) has been illegal in Colorado for years. SF is the owner of the property which is why her attorney told the judge she would invoke the 5th.

JMO

Hopefully this will clarify.
IMHO and MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

I understand that, MG, but he surely made it sound like they were searching for more than ash and bone fragments that we have been led to believe. IMHO

I think that’s simply a reflection of how the questions were posed.

Personally, I do believe they are in fact searching for more than ash and bone fragments, as I don’t believe the fire was burning long enough to achieve that level of destruction.

I just don’t take his answers as necessarily being a reflection of that.

 

[MemPat]

It is your SPECULATION that SF knew a dead body was being burned on her property. She hasn't been named a POI or a suspect and I seriously doubt PF told her he was burning a dead human being.

The open-burning of toxic materials has been law in Colorado for quite some time. Didn't realize a link would be demanded. Here ya go:

What materials are not allowed to be burned?Tree stumps, tires, chemicals, plastic, cut lumber, construction debris , trash. Burning of these materials produces pollution that is harmful to the environment and the health of you and your neighbors

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/default/files/AP_OB_Open-Burning-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Did I miss something? I don't think this was the requested link.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I think that’s simply a reflection of how the questions were posed.

Personally, I do believe they are in fact searching for more than ash and bone fragments, as I don’t believe the fire was burning long enough to achieve that level of destruction.

I just don’t take his answers as necessarily being a reflection of that.

Perhaps I am just hoping he couldnt get that fire hot enough, long enough and there will be more of her remains that will be "findable". Honestly, MG, I also have to think of PFs patience level to complete the task at hand and I can't imagine him stirring and stoking that fire long enough to get a body completely gone. This is PF remember.....the special one.
MOO, MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Like many here, I'm convinced PF had a deadly surprise planned for KB that night.

Your speculation seems reasonable since he seemed obsessed with her head getting bashed.

I've wondered if someone saw him out there and that made him abort the plan.

Sam’s tweet from the hearing talked about PF reaching out to KK on 11/21. KK believed something was in the works for sometime soon after that, and her presence would be needed.

· Feb 19, 2019
Replying to @SamKraemerTV
Frazee didn’t reach out to Kenney again until Nov. 21. Frazee asked what she was doing for Thanksgiving. Kenney, in hindsight, interpreted this as Frazee finding a way to make sure she couldn’t get out of it this time. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

Around 4:30 p.m. on Nov. 22, Frazee texted Kenney asking for her to call him. Frazee eventually called, saying, “You need to get out here now. You’ve got a mess to clean up.” Kenney interpreted that as Kelsey Berreth was dead. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

 

[kath4557]

I know circumstantial evidence always make people nervous bc there is no csi smoking gun in this case. That we know of anyways, although I believe it’s there and it will be damming.

But there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence in this case.

Surveillance video, damning lie by PF

Cell pings

Lies to LE

Lies to CB

Lies to Doss

Medical documents with no KB or even CB listed.

Lies about KB medical treatment to individuals before and after the murder.

Cadaver dogs hit at Nash ranch where kB body was

Statements by bank about pf and RS odd behavior.

The odd behavior about the package.

PF had baby K for ten days and nobody could get ahold of KB. Pf shows no concern.

Not one of these specific things makes a conviction necessarily, but the all stack up.

And they all combined paint a clear picture of his guilt IMO

And these are all things that are in addition to KK incriminating statements about PFs involvement.

Exactly! PF is doomed. Yeah!!!

 

[MassGuy]

Perhaps I am just hoping he couldnt get that fire hot enough, long enough and there will be more of her remains that will be "findable". Honestly, MG, I also have to think of PFs patience level to complete the task at hand and I can't imagine him stirring and stoking that fire long enough to get a body completely gone. This is PF remember.....the special one.
MOO, MOO

Yeah. We are all hoping for the same thing, that Kelsey’s family can recover as much of her body as possible.

Looking at this logically, I think the reality here, is something along the lines of what we hope for.

It’s always dangerous to conflate hope with reality, but I don’t think we’re doing that.

As you say, he is impatient and “special,” and coupled with the time it would have taken, I don’t think he was able to achieve what he hoped to achieve.

There may be a lot to recover.

 

[ab01]

Did I miss something? I don't think this was the requested link.

Nah apparently some believe that May only wanted to have SF testify to bring up charges of Illegal burning against SF based on evidence and witness testimony of what PF had done on his own accord. Apparently the DA was unethical bc he has no intentions of trying to prove a timeline of events and or possible crimes against PF. And apparently some have the opinion that they know that the judge was thinking it was unethical, Even though the judge stated in his own words that "now was not the time". Apparently we are suppose to believe that PF preliminary hearing was a scheme by May to bring charges against SF for Illegal burning.

MOO is that May was merely trying to prove that PF had lied about his whereabouts on thanksgiving and that he wanted SF to say that there was a fire at the Franch......

The judge said ahh thats not necessary Mr. May you have plenty of evidence and witness testimony to hold PF over for trial....MOO

 

[susiQ]

It seems to me that if I had been in PF's shoes (which I wasn't, thankfully) I wouldn't dispose of the remains at any of the places I tell KK about. Why take the potential extra risk?

I think LE has corroborating evidence of some sort that it is the landfill.

My best two guesses with respect to the landfill search are:
1) PF disposed of the "blob" of black plastic at the transfer station BEFORE anyone realized KB was even missing. Perhaps his phone pinged close to the transfer station within days of the bonfire. Transfer stations record vehicle plates, at least where I live. I have no doubt they have searched his and those of any of his little "helpers" to see if they frequented a transfer station immediately after the 24th. The transfer station would know when the "bin" went to the landfill. The landfill would know where it was emptied.
2) Possible video footage of PF discarding said blob of plastic into a dumpster locally. The dump would know in exactly what area of the landfill the dumpster was emptied.

I still remain confident they will find KB's remains if that's where they ended up.

 

[MassGuy]

My best two guesses with respect to the landfill search are:
1) PF disposed of the "blob" of black plastic at the transfer station BEFORE anyone realized KB was even missing. Perhaps his phone pinged close to the transfer station within days of the bonfire. Transfer stations record vehicle plates, at least where I live. I have no doubt they have searched his and those of any of his little "helpers" to see if they frequented a transfer station immediately after the 24th. The transfer station would know when the "bin" went to the landfill. The landfill would know where it was emptied.
2) Possible video footage of PF discarding said blob of plastic into a dumpster locally. The dump would know in exactly what area of the landfill the dumpster was emptied.

I'm still remain confident they will find KB's remains if that's where they ended up.

Yeah, they just have some solid indication that KB’s remains are at that landfill.

Video footage or location data, are certainly plausible explanations for that.

After reading that interview today, I am more optimistic than ever, that KB’s body will be found.

 

[Teche]

BBM:

Excellent article chock full of useful, fascinating information.
As always and ever, thank you for providing it, PommyMommy!!

NecroSearch is certainly a remarkably impressive group of professionals.
I've always been confident that KB's remains will be found at that landfill.
I'm now more convinced than ever.
40/51 success rate is stunning.

Thanks again for sharing what can only be described as an encouraging word!

Extremely interesting information. Prior to WS, I never knew there was a pattern used to unload garbage at a landfill. With this company’s knowledge, this is LEs best chance at recovery.