OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#46

[bowler]

Do we have to use only initials on WS? I think i got it but I'd have to flip to page 1 to be sure.
You're saying that possibly Billy (who is G3) and JW went to CRSR's place and to Gary's place. And AW and GW4 went to FR's place and HR's place.
Is that the 4 crime scenes? Sorry. Life in general is preventing me from keeping up.

I think all at one place (CRSR) then going to FR's would be risky. But what the heck do I know LOL

KR's, I would like more info re blood. If shot in bed then it wouldn't be all over.

Gary was at CRSR's place. Did he really arrive previous day at CSSR's?

Life does get in the way of this! I hadn't paid much attention to this case till the arrest, so still try to catch up.

 

[Tiff23fr]

I've a sib who has been with the same s/o for 20 years. No paper. The paper comes in handy for certain legal things though, especially if you live in a state, like mine, that doesn't recognize cohabitation rights.

Agree, that HMR was likely JW's first GF. I do think JW and HMR were crazy over each other in the first few years, just by reading their SM. I think the two families were good friends at one point too. Then, it seems that something happened in 2014, because that appears to be when everything started to change for the W4. They'd left the FWF where they'd lived for decades, jumped into the Peterson home in early 2014, G4's relationship starts to peter out in late 2014, and so does JW's, and by early 2015, both boys have no wife or fiance. It seems 2014 was not a banner year at the W4's.

In OH, a single mother has sole custodial rights, and HMR & JW had worked out a pretty good arrangement. Much better than many crazy arrangements I've seen. Who watched S while JW worked during his weeks? My bet is on AW. HMR had to know this, and be okay with her watching S. That lends me to think, that things appeared, on the surface, to be going okay. Who would send their child, with whom they enjoyed sole custodial rights, off to stay with the father who they were in a bitter custody dispute with? HMR didn't have to let the child go anywhere with him, see him, or even talk to him, unless a court ordered it, but JW enjoyed very liberal visitation. The Rs/HHG didn't see this coming, imo.

For so long I have felt something happened in 2014. I'm just not sure what it was. So many things started changing and that is the year the hacking, etc. began.
Could 2014 have been when CSR and BW's friendship started going sideways? If so why?

Was it just something inside the W family? I'm not sure...

 

[Tiff23fr]

Maybe she had something to do with HR and CG getting together. It could have been seen that DR and HG were the instigators of the relationship falling apart. JMO

It appears JW and HR first split up just a couple months after FR and HG began a relationship in late 2014. JMO

 

[Dudly]

I've a sib who has been with the same s/o for 20 years. No paper. The paper comes in handy for certain legal things though, especially if you live in a state, like mine, that doesn't recognize cohabitation rights.

Agree, that HMR was likely JW's first GF. I do think JW and HMR were crazy over each other in the first few years, just by reading their SM. I think the two families were good friends at one point too. Then, it seems that something happened in 2014, because that appears to be when everything started to change for the W4. They'd left the FWF where they'd lived for decades, jumped into the Peterson home in early 2014, G4's relationship starts to peter out in late 2014, and so does JW's, and by early 2015, both boys have no wife or fiance. It seems 2014 was not a banner year at the W4's.

In OH, a single mother has sole custodial rights, and HMR & JW had worked out a pretty good arrangement. Much better than many crazy arrangements I've seen. Who watched S while JW worked during his weeks? My bet is on AW. HMR had to know this, and be okay with her watching S. That lends me to think, that things appeared, on the surface, to be going okay. Who would send their child, with whom they enjoyed sole custodial rights, off to stay with the father who they were in a bitter custody dispute with? HMR didn't have to let the child go anywhere with him, see him, or even talk to him, unless a court ordered it, but JW enjoyed very liberal visitation. The Rs/HHG didn't see this coming, imo.

Besides the very liberal visitation, there was no court ordered support, either. JW had it made... It is beyond me how he was not satisfied with the status quo. There are millions of men who'd love that arrangement. Instead of being happy with things the way they were, he and his family kill eight people to get it their way. Unimaginable... The more you think about it, the more the total absurdity of it is revealed...

 

[Tiff23fr]

I asked the Moderators about discussing names in discovery and was informed names that have been in the media are Ok. So I'm going to offer this one. Know I do it respectfully, I realize he is now deceased, and I'm guessing his part of the discovery may be because they were all close friends.

"Burns came home from a job in Pennsylvania when he heard the news about the death of his friends in the Rhoden family to make sure his family was safe. Chad went to school and was friends with members of the family."

I think this guy was a close family friend and was aware of whatever struggles there may have been between the W's and R's. A couple months after JW and HR split he mentioned on her social media to "kick it in the butt, because things are looking up for you now."

I share it with an opinion that something was going on and even family friends were seeing it.

Statement above is in the image caption of this article.
Town of Piketon comes together in tragedy that took eight of its own

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The witness may have similar baggage to JW. Who knows? They may have none at all. My comment was with regard to smearing their record; "if the witness has juvenile, and possibly even adult, charges and jail time, they've smeared their own record. If the prosecution is relying on testimony of those who have been, or are, incarcerated, that may prove to be a problem."

The Wags already have records themselves. That is worth noting. I don't think your concerns will come to fruition. Besides, imo, the state has a mountain of digital evidence and other forensics.

 

[Dudly]

I think Tiff23 is correct, I think she facilitated the relationship in the opinion of the W's. I also think there may be a small chance that JW thought Hanna's child was his initially. I've seen some conflicting reports about the autopsy's, as in was DR shot in chin or neck? Most say chin, also CRSr had more decomposition than the others, but by how much? Another detail is bruising, some sources indicate that this is a sign that 2 were beaten. Which 2? And were they beaten or did they struggle/fight? We know CRSr is one, I say DR is the other. Some had skull fractures which mean nothing until we see specifics of the bullet trajectory. I worked for Neurosurgery in a Level 1 trauma center (where I still work). A single GSW to the head can cause a skull to fracture, not to mention 5 at close range. I initially thought these were fairly quick, in and out murders but the more I dig the more I get a sense that's not the case for all 8. It's sad enough in it's own right but to think they suffered is worse. Whoever did this or had part in it lost their humanity some time ago.

I haven't given the "beaten" theory much credence. As many times as these people were shot, I'm sure there was bruising from that.
There were supposed to have several of the Rhodens in fights shortly before, too...
I have also thought that DR and maybe HG were awakened so they could see who was shooting them. Kind of like a "look what happens if you mess with us" sort of thing. Just my opinions...

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Thanks, in looking at it again I can see you're correct about the F-150. Someone else mentions that the F-150 Garmin GPS is a Ford truck with yhat GPS installed. The second listed F-150 though, the Samsung one, is a tablet. All a little confusing about those two. Why I mentioned it was I was guessing that those two GPSs, CRSR and the F-150 Garmin, are the only two vehicle GPS that the prosecution are using in trial?

All cellphones are GPS enabled. There may be numerous GPS devices in evidence, but they may not be all labeled GPS.

 

[Dudly]

I asked the Moderators about discussing names in discovery and was informed names that have been in the media are Ok. So I'm going to offer this one. Know I do it respectfully, I realize he is now deceased, and I'm guessing his part of the discovery may be because they were all close friends.

"Burns came home from a job in Pennsylvania when he heard the news about the death of his friends in the Rhoden family to make sure his family was safe. Chad went to school and was friends with members of the family."

I think this guy was a close family friend and was aware of whatever struggles there may have been between the W's and R's. A couple months after JW and HR split he mentioned on her social media to "kick it in the butt, because things are looking up for you now."

I share it with an opinion that something was going on and even family friends were seeing it.

Statement above is in the image caption of this article.
Town of Piketon comes together in tragedy that took eight of its own

Could he be the witness that can not testify?

 

[Tiff23fr]

Could he be the witness that can not testify?

It is one I have considered. He passed away March 2018.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Yes, but in forum discussions it can become a slippery slope.

Yes, and I am pretty sure several times mods have requested to be notified of anything questionable so that they can determine if something needs addressed. In short, we sleuth and the mods, mod.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

How could someone that old. meaning GWSR, pay for those policies and for it to pay off?

Are you certain they weren't whole life policies? In that case, they could have been paid in full years ago.

 

[rsd1200]

I think Tiff23 is correct, I think she facilitated the relationship in the opinion of the W's. I also think there may be a small chance that JW thought Hanna's child was his initially. I've seen some conflicting reports about the autopsy's, as in was DR shot in chin or neck? Most say chin, also CRSr had more decomposition than the others, but by how much? Another detail is bruising, some sources indicate that this is a sign that 2 were beaten. Which 2? And were they beaten or did they struggle/fight? We know CRSr is one, I say DR is the other. Some had skull fractures which mean nothing until we see specifics of the bullet trajectory. I worked for Neurosurgery in a Level 1 trauma center (where I still work). A single GSW to the head can cause a skull to fracture, not to mention 5 at close range. I initially thought these were fairly quick, in and out murders but the more I dig the more I get a sense that's not the case for all 8. It's sad enough in it's own right but to think they suffered is worse. Whoever did this or had part in it lost their humanity some time ago.

BBM
Agree.

The link below is one report on the shot numbers, and the shot locations, from WLWT5 Ohio.

I am not comparing human life to that of a farm animal, (although being that I did hand raise this particular one, I was fond of this one, and saddened to lose him), but, I had to help put the animal out of its misery (a firearm was used). While I was not traumatized from the experience, and it was absolutely necessary, it is not something I ever wish to have to repeat. Very unsettling. Based on that experience, with an animal, that I'd raised and cared about, I could not see how anyone could kill another human being (who was of no immediate threat to them).

These murders weren't done in the heat of passion, but, were premeditated, so that they could be there, up close and personal, in the moment, to watch them die, otherwise there were other ways, that didn't risk the four defendants getting the death penalty, if caught. If it was solely about the control of children, it's been stated many times that the Senior W's, not only have vast wealth but have connections, if true, the custody issue could probably have been settled in an entirely different way.

It was theorized at one time that hired assassins had been brought in to do the job. The plan was made, by the killers, I believe, b/c they had a personal score to settle and they wanted to not only kill their victims, themselves, to settle it, but be up close and personal to watch them die, and hated them enough to risk everything. Heinous. To be able to have killed the first person, and go on to kill the other seven, in such a fashion, I've often wondered if it's possible, that they were responsible for the murders, of a local mother and daughter, as a sort of trial run.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Could he be the witness that can not testify?

I think this is a reference to him. JMO

"His four-man team was gonna be in it, he said, but Frankie’s cousin had to work today. The other guy’s motor was messed up. And James’ friend, he died recently. Car wreck."

Eight unsolved murders in Pike County, Ohio

 

[rsd1200]

For so long I have felt something happened in 2014. I'm just not sure what it was. So many things started changing and that is the year the hacking, etc. began.
Could 2014 have been when CSR and BW's friendship started going sideways? If so why?

Was it just something inside the W family? I'm not sure...

I've been cross researching that year between the families for awhile. I've not come to a definite conclusion yet, but I do believe that 2014 may have been the beginnings of the end. With the SM accounts shuttered, for the most part now, it's a bit more difficult to study. I believe that HMR & CG started a friendship kind of relationship as early as mid 2014, and it progressed. I also think that JW might have cheated on HMR, and she left him. The friendship between the Ws/Rs, possibly came from a business relationship or vice versa, and the business relationship soured, taking the friendship with it (or, again, vice versa). Just a thought.

I've no concrete conclusions to any of the above, just ponderings.

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM
She'd moved on. He wasn't going to be in the picture as daddy. HMR made very clear that there was new daddy in town. CH. Until CH there was no man ever posted on her main FB. No other "In A Relationship" status updates. No pics of another man playing with S. I think that if JW was insanely jealous of anyone, CH would be the one. I've thought for awhile that he could've been the straw.

Yes. A lot of us have read the Facebook feud that was going on about the "baby daddy"of Kylie. We know Jake read it. Jake knew the lay of the land.

The Oxygen Show quoted a former Wagner in-law who said basically there was bad blood between Angie and Hanna after the break up.
What that indicates to me is that Hanna was fine but Angie wasn't.

I imagine Angie being livid and ranting: "How could she do that to you/US Jake? After everything we've done for her, I treated her like a daughter then she gets pregnant by that low life---you/WE should have custody! etc........"

Actually, I'm putting it mildly because I believe the Wagner's started bad mouthing her, then her family, then that morphs into talking about how much better things would be if they would all just "disappear." Billy: "I can make that happen!" GW4: "I know how we could do it." A family affair. (2 Cents)

I used to think the number of shots to each victim wasn't related to the level of hate, but instead to just bad shooting..ie.. locals doing it not professionals. But with Hannah Gilley I think she was shot 5 times, including in the eye, because of her brother CG. But I agree with you, CH was the straw because Hanna was suppose to go back to Jake , not get with CH instead.

The combination of----
HR moving on to CH instead of Jake and also carrying CG's baby was the explosion behind the murders... Only My opinion...2 Cents....

HG was likely blamed for getting HR & CG together--- even if she didn't do that. Truth never gets in the way of what the Wagner's want to believe.

 

[rsd1200]

I asked the Moderators about discussing names in discovery and was informed names that have been in the media are Ok. So I'm going to offer this one. Know I do it respectfully, I realize he is now deceased, and I'm guessing his part of the discovery may be because they were all close friends.

"Burns came home from a job in Pennsylvania when he heard the news about the death of his friends in the Rhoden family to make sure his family was safe. Chad went to school and was friends with members of the family."

I think this guy was a close family friend and was aware of whatever struggles there may have been between the W's and R's. A couple months after JW and HR split he mentioned on her social media to "kick it in the butt, because things are looking up for you now."

I share it with an opinion that something was going on and even family friends were seeing it.

Statement above is in the image caption of this article.
Town of Piketon comes together in tragedy that took eight of its own

Just adding onto your post;

I was just on HMR's sm and was reading through the comments again. It was on May 21, of 2015. On May 4th, 2015, CG had updated his FB to "In A Relationship" w/ HMR's pic beneath it.

Chad's comment on HMR's post was;

You have to smile things are starting to go good for you keep your head up and kick it in the but

She'd posted a pic of herself, looking sad, that read; I don't want to fake smile anymore.

 

[rsd1200]

The Wags already have records themselves. That is worth noting. I don't think your concerns will come to fruition. Besides, imo, the state has a mountain of digital evidence and other forensics.

I didn't realize my comment would cause such a disturbance. There is a 16 y.o. juvie here who is serving time for killing someone. I'm not talking about stealing a candy bar, or knocking over some mailboxes. We have juvies who have extensive criminal histories before the age of 18. Theft, drug dealing, b &e, beating up their granny for her pills. I'd not want them testifying against me. They lie fast as dog can trot. But, we all have diff opinions, if you'd be okay if they were called to testify against you, then that's all cool. It's a death penalty case though, not a stolen car case. One's life would be on the line.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes. A lot of us have read the Facebook feud that was going on about the "baby daddy"of Kylie. We know Jake read it. Jake knew the lay of the land.

The Oxygen Show quoted a former Wagner in-law who said basically there was bad blood between Angie and Hanna after the break up.
What that indicates to me is that Hanna was fine but Angie wasn't.

I imagine Angie being livid and ranting: "How could she do that to you/US Jake? After everything we've done for her, I treated her like a daughter then she gets pregnant by that low life---you/WE should have custody! etc........"

Actually, I'm putting it mildly because I believe the Wagner's started bad mouthing her, then her family, then that morphs into talking about how much better things would be if they would all just "disappear." Billy: "I can make that happen!" GW4: "I know how we could do it." A family affair. (2 Cents)

I used to think the number of shots to each victim wasn't related to the level of hate, but instead to just bad shooting..ie.. locals doing it not professionals. But with Hannah Gilley I think she was shot 5 times, including in the eye, because of her brother CG. But I agree with you, CH was the straw because Hanna was suppose to go back to Jake , not get with CH instead.

HR moving on to CH instead of Jake and also carrying CG's baby was the explosion behind the murders... Only My opinion...2 Cents....

HG was likely blamed for getting HR & CG together--- even if she didn't do that. Truth never gets in the way of what the Wagner's want to believe.

Agree! Especially since AW babysat while JW worked. S was the little girl she never had (and possibly really wanted?). I had thought like you, one of the shooters was not as experienced as the other, or not as willing to be there, until we learned of DR's shot locations. That was pure hate.

I think that if HMR had come back to him, instead of falling for CH, JW would have gladly raised K as his own, just to have HMR back. If CG had interfered, who knows, he may have gone missing. However, you can only make so many BFs go missing... If there's no HMR, there's no new men in S's life (and I do think that there was a possibility that he thought K might be his too). I too think HHG and FR were blamed for bringing CG into the picture.

 

[Cool Cats]

Agree! Especially since AW babysat while JW worked. S was the little girl she never had (and possibly really wanted?). I had thought like you, one of the shooters was not as experienced as the other, or not as willing to be there, until we learned of DR's shot locations. That was pure hate.

I think that if HMR had come back to him, instead of falling for CH, JW would have gladly raised K as his own, just to have HMR back. If CG had interfered, who knows, he may have gone missing. However, you can only make so many BFs go missing... If there's no HMR, there's no new men in S's life (and I do think that there was a possibility that he thought K might be his too). I too think HHG and FR were blamed for bringing CG into the picture.

Good points. I forgot about Frankie. It is likely he too was blamed for HR/CH.

And yes your right, it wouldn't only be about men in Hanna's life, but also getting the men OUT of S' life.

Chilling thought you brought up. If Hanna had gone back to Jake and Jake was trying to raise Kylie as his own, then yes, I do think (2 Cents Only) CG would have gone "missing".

Controversial statement I know, but, if the Wagner's are guilty of 8 murders it means we do know they are very capable of making their problems "disappear". And CG would most definitely have been a problem because Jake is obsessed with the control of children.

Remember what he said? If Kylie wasn't his...Quote: "I will want mandatory visitation."