Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[sunshineray]

“Guys” could have been used because he didn’t know their names (agree).

If the girls had noticed him before during their hike and then saw him coming their way, they could have started walking the path away from the bridge. BG's "Guys" could have been said to stop them, get their attention, get them to turn around and face him. He probably had some type of weapon out to intimidate them and then motioned them, "Down the hill". God so chilling, those poor kids.

 

[ab01]

Agree. I also believe it was random and that he was an opportunist. There's not been anything to suggest that the girls knew that they were going to be there ahead of time. However, the families HAVE stated that they decided to go at kind of the last minute. We can speculate that others knew they were going earlier but, so far, there's nothing to back that up. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it's not taking into account the facts that we know.

I think the use of the word "guys" in this case is a red herring. I don't think it will have any bearing on the case, other than the fact that hopefully someone in his life will recognize the tone in which he said it. Without much new info to go on, IMO it's going to become like the red shirt in Mollie Tibbet's case.

Guys I hope not, I don’t have the energy to relive that red shirt fiasco again.

I use guys all the time, women, men,kids, pets, animals.......it’s easy and comfortable for me to say.

I’m not sure I use it any more or less frequently with those I don’t know than with those I do.

If this is the case we can probably use it to expand our suspect list rather than shrink it.

Cody22 going to need a bigger tablet lol

Jmo

 

[Tiger Stripes]

(snipped for brevity by Tiger Stripes)

BTW. About those clothes BG is wearing. Can I just ask: What grown man wears jeans or pants six inches too long for their body? Those jeans IMO were not originally purchased when new for BG. Don't all mens jeans and pants come in waist size x inseam? And those holes under the knees? BG either stole or borrowed those pants, or bought from a thrift store because someone donated them because of those big a## holes in the knees.

BBM

Good thought there, @SeattleStew! While it's possible that the suspect may have dropped by a well-known local thrift shop in Delphi (see link; mods, please delete if list is not okay to post), I'm thinking it more likely he went to one not so local -- but that's entirely MO. Were he to go to a Delphi thrift store, that would have increased the likelihood of workers there being interviewed by LE ("Do you recall having a customer who bought...?", etc.). Of course, am still thinking in terms of the suspect's being highly organized (note how carefully he managed to "cover" for himself; note how carefully he actually covered up himself with respect to tons of clothing) -- though I understand that each of us has a variety of opinions as to the suspect's MO. My amateur speculation only regarding the suspect's being an organized killer.

https://www.yellowpages.com/delphi-in/goodwill

(not just Goodwill stores, either, btw)

 

[Jabarn]

If the girls had noticed him before during their hike and then saw him coming their way, they could have started walking the path away from the bridge. BG's "Guys" could have been said to stop them, get their attention, get them to turn around and face him. He probably had some type of weapon out to intimidate them and then motioned them, "Down the hill". God so chilling, those poor kids.

It may have very well gone down like that... the girls had seen him and he saw them. He waited until they were alone.

I get sort of tangled in whether he knew where he was going with them, though. It’s part of the organized versus disorganized pattern of behavior studied by criminologists and profilers.

If he was organized, he knew he was going to hurt someone and had a spot in mind to lead them. He may have even known they were going to be there, if he was very organized.

If he was disorganized, something hair triggered his behavior to track them and force them off the bridge.

This is such a bizarre, sad crime.

 

[mtnlites]

BBM

Good thought there, @SeattleStew! While it's possible that the suspect may have dropped by a well-known local thrift shop in Delphi (see link; mods, please delete if list is not okay to post), I'm thinking it more likely he went to one not so local -- but that's entirely MO. Were he to go to a Delphi thrift store, that would have increased the likelihood of workers there being interviewed by LE ("Do you recall having a customer who bought...?", etc.). Of course, am still thinking in terms of the suspect's being highly organized (note how carefully he managed to "cover" for himself; note how carefully he actually covered up himself with respect to tons of clothing) -- though I understand that each of us has a variety of opinions as to the suspect's MO. My amateur speculation only regarding the suspect's being an organized killer.

Goodwill Locations & Hours Near Delphi, IN - YP.com

(not just Goodwill stores, either, btw)

Why couldn't the pants just have been his all along? I guess I'm not understanding why he had to have bought them from a thrift store just because they had holes in the knees...Lots of men prefer wearing jeans that are too big for them and "sag" on them. And it's not uncommon to wear holes through the knees-especially if they're a comfortable pair that you like to wear a lot.

 

[tresir2012]

To me, those sounds in between the words almost sound hollow. An almost echoing sound.

They sound creepy to me.

If the girls had noticed him before during their hike and then saw him coming their way, they could have started walking the path away from the bridge. BG's "Guys" could have been said to stop them, get their attention, get them to turn around and face him. He probably had some type of weapon out to intimidate them and then motioned them, "Down the hill". God so chilling, those poor kids.

So he could have said "Guys, see this gun? Now get down the hill. "

Why did LE leave those sounds in there like that. They should have just cut it to Guys, down the hill. What was/is the purpose of leaving that in?

 

[sunshineray]

It may have very well gone down like that... the girls had seen him and he saw them. He waited until they were alone.

I get sort of tangled in whether he knew where he was going with them, though. It’s part of the organized versus disorganized pattern of behavior studied by criminologists and profilers.

If he was organized, he knew he was going to hurt someone and had a spot in mind to lead them. He may have even known they were going to be there, if he was very organized.

If he was disorganized, something hair triggered his behavior to track them and force them off the bridge.

This is such a bizarre, sad crime.

I think it was as simple, in his mind, as getting diwn below the trail and going towards a water source to aid in removing trace evidence on him and on them. I think he may have had less time with them than he'd planned on though and hopefully that led to good DNA recovery.

 

[ab01]

If the girls had noticed him before during their hike and then saw him coming their way, they could have started walking the path away from the bridge. BG's "Guys" could have been said to stop them, get their attention, get them to turn around and face him. He probably had some type of weapon out to intimidate them and then motioned them, "Down the hill". God so chilling, those poor kids.

This I absolutely agree with, I think its highly likely this is the context of the situation

JMO

 

[tresir2012]

Has it ever been confirmed by LE or MSM that the property down the hill was actually empty that day? i.e. the one that the private road and the bridge lead to?

Did BG know this? And how did he know, if so?

 

[sunshineray]

They sound creepy to me.



So he could have said "Guys, see this gun? Now get down the hill. "

Why did LE leave those sounds in there like that. They should have just cut it to Guys, down the hill. What was/is the purpose of leaving that in?

I'm thin it was their reactions to him that were cut out.

 

[MistyWaters]

Why did LE leave those sounds in there like that. They should have just cut it to Guys, down the hill. What was/is the purpose of leaving that in?

I don’t know just guessing but maybe by leaving the background scratchy noise while amplifying the voice enables people to understand the audio quality is most likely not exact?

 

[pepper 34]

I like how you think, MistyWaters. It leads me to ask (again) about the icon on the upper right hand side of the picture of Abby 2:07pm on the bridge. Is that a Snapchat icon? I have an iphone6 as well, and I don't have Snapchat, it's not an icon I recognize. Is that battery life?

edited to change "upper left hand" to "upper right hand" d'oh.

*ET Remove: question already answered.

 

[ab01]

I don’t know just guessing but maybe by leaving the background scratchy noise while amplifying the voice enables people to understand the audio quality is most likely not exact?

I think its possible there could also be some psychology involved?

Maybe investigators have studies to show that people are more likely to listen more closely?

Or maybe its just as simple as they didn't think it was necessary to take it out

jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

Has it ever been confirmed by LE or MSM that the property down the hill was actually empty that day? i.e. the one that the private road and the bridge lead to?

Did BG know this? And how did he know, if so?

No, LE hasn’t revealed any investigative information about neighbouring properties other than clearing RL, the land owner, from involvement. That the owners of that other property were believed to be snowbirds and absent at the time iirc came from local people who posted here initially but it’s not been officially verified.

But that road, which ended in a private driveway, almost directly “down the hill” has always piqued my what-ifs.

 

[cody22]

Guys I hope not, I don’t have the energy to relive that red shirt fiasco again.

I use guys all the time, women, men,kids, pets, animals.......it’s easy and comfortable for me to say.

I’m not sure I use it any more or less frequently with those I don’t know than with those I do.

If this is the case we can probably use it to expand our suspect list rather than shrink it.

Cody22 going to need a bigger tablet lol

Jmo

I just messed up my top suspect page ( on top of a big pile of my own writing that I cannot hardly read)) with spilled coffee.....That will "teach him/her " to be possibly bad......LOL !.....moo

 

[tresir2012]

No, LE hasn’t revealed any investigative information about neighbouring properties other than clearing RL, the land owner, from involvement. That the owners of that other property were believed to be snowbirds and absent at the time iirc came from local people who posted here initially but it’s not been officially verified.

But that road, which ended in a private driveway, almost directly “down the hill” has always piqued my what-ifs.

Yes. For example everyone knew that RL was out that day and not back till 6:30 p.m. when the searcher knocked at his door to ask permission to search. So why don't we know that about the property on the other side of the creek, which actually is more important as that was closer to where the girls were last seen and where the girls apparently went missing from. MOO

 

[Cutiekitty]

Well, it looks like Mr. Hickman sold his business to a Financial Services Company, but that's okay. I found this from 2017:

How to retrieve deleted Snapchat photos from iphone6:

Run iPhone Data Recovery on computer and plug iPhone into computer with USB cable, and select the first recovery mode, “Recover from iOS Device” to scan your iPhone. Click “App Photos” to find Snapchat photos, to view all Snapchat photos that are deleted automatically (include sent Snapchat photos), then click “Next”.May 22, 2017

Pretty sure LE already figured that out. I promise to move on from Snapchat talk.

Can you link the article? I bet they’ve made a patch for that since I don’t see many recent articles on it. Lots of links that claim they can recover info, but they are scams. I’ve got a prolific snap chatter and if SC saves everything seen the phone is probably going to blow up.

 

[x_files]

I don't see a beer belly or a definitive age when I look at it. I see someone wearing a baggie jacket, loose fit jeans, hat obstructing his hair, a possible fanny pack around his waist, possible knife sheath on his left side hip, hands not visable, chin tucked down. All in all, kind of hard to distinguish features let along age. AJMO

I did two years ago when the Sketch looked more like a chubby middle-aged man, with the new sketch not so much. Now I see a young adult wearing dad's clothes with bad hat hair no hat.

 

[Charlot123]

Yeah, a challenge is coming.

Maryland lawmakers are currently trying to ban public databases being used for this purpose.

Hopefully it fails, as this is too important.

We’ve seen dozens of cases solved this way already, many of them decades old.

Most of these guys were never on law enforcement’s radar.

Golden State was just the beginning.

I remember the time when 23@me was illegal in NY (I think), so users from NY would order it at the address of their CT friends, drive there, spit, and send the box via CT mail. (Not sure about the state, I assume it was NY as it was darn close to CT). With time, this idiocy stopped, of course, so the same will, hopefully, hold true for MD.

 

[rosesfromangels]

If the victims were targeted, the source of the compliance might be hybrid:

-Perpetrator does have an authority position and knows how how to handle children (teacher, youth sports coach, clergy, pool life guard, camp leader etc)

- The girls don't know him from his authority position. Rather, they know him distantly as the boyfriend of 'c', the friend of 'f'', or the argumentative guy who used to call relative 'r'.

So, the victims could have responded compliantly due to a combination of a command voice from somebody used to handling juveniles, and being some what familiar with him. They would not even need to know his name to have some degree of familiarity and be willing to comply initially. Rather, he could be known as "the guy" that knows "K".

Cryptic - I wholeheartedly agree with your speculation. I think you nailed it.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Thanks for the insight.

I don't think the girls knew BG.

I use the phrase "hey guys" all the time, its just generic language.

I don't think the hike on the bridge was purposeful or arranged so the killer knew the girls were going on a hike.

IMHO I think BG is an opportunist, saw these two girls and decided to strike. Random.

I think he is older than 16-19 yrs old and tried to appear harmless by using the term "hey guys".

We can use as much sage smudging as we like here but the facts remain the facts.

This is moo and speculation.

You could very well be right nwmouse; time will tell.
Or perhaps somewhere in-between our speculations.
BTW, that's not what the virtual sage smudging is used for. ; )

Amateur opinion and speculation only