CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #19

[Bernina]

<modsnip> ... as evidenced by Joey's very friendly and excited New Year greeting to Chase, they were happily starting a luscious Saudi business deal that would likely make them millions. It defies logic that Chase would murder Joey and his entire family at such a time, not to mention he has zero violent crime history.

Like the New Year's greeting he sent to DK? Or who knows how many other people?
An individual doesn't need a history of violent crime to commit one.

 

[la2cabo]

Like the New Year's greeting he sent to DK? Or who knows how many other people?
An individual doesn't need a history of violent crime to commit one.

Wasn't that generic message sent out prior to Joey finding out that Merritt was ripping him off?

 

[la2cabo]

Except that, as evidenced by Joey's very friendly and excited New Year greeting to Chase, they were happily starting a luscious Saudi business deal that would likely make them millions. It defies logic that Chase would murder Joey and his entire family at such a time, not to mention he has zero violent crime history.

He does in fact have a violent history he just hadn't been charged. I'm sure we'll hear more about it during the sentencing phase of the trial.

Edit to add: people said they were afraid of Merritt. His victims may have feared the repercussions if they called the police.

 

[Bernina]

Wasn't that generic message sent out prior to Joey finding out that Merritt was ripping him off?

Yes.

 

[Force Ten]

Except that, as evidenced by Joey's very friendly and excited New Year greeting to Chase, they were happily starting a luscious Saudi business deal that would likely make them millions. It defies logic that Chase would murder Joey and his entire family at such a time, not to mention he has zero violent crime history.

No, SA was one fountain with no future prospects there.

 

[Bernina]

No, SA was one fountain with no future prospects there.

No doubt. I didn't see any evidence of future orders for SA fountains, it was just a flash in the pan.

 

[Karinna]

No doubt. I didn't see any evidence of future orders for SA fountains, it was just a flash in the pan.

The SA deal intrigues me actually. I wonder how that came about? Don't they have any good talented people in SA which i think is a wealthy oil and gold rich country. Why would they have got someone in the U.S. involved in such a project i wonder?

 

[lms]

He does in fact have a violent history he just hadn't been charged. I'm sure we'll hear more about it during the sentencing phase of the trial.

Edit to add: people said they were afraid of Merritt. His victims may have feared the repercussions if they called the police.

Can you elaborate on your assertion that Chase had a violent history? Facts?

 

[Karinna]

Can you elaborate on your assertion that Chase had a violent history? Facts?

Well for starters he punished his 4 year old son over a 2 hour period and if that's not violent then i don't know what is? Just horrid IMO.

 

[Tortoise]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> ... as evidenced by Joey's very friendly and excited New Year greeting to Chase, they were happily starting a luscious Saudi business deal that would likely make them millions. It defies logic that Chase would murder Joey and his entire family at such a time, not to mention he has zero violent crime history.

I don't see the logic in this at all.

Get rid of Joey and there is no split of the millions of $ with Joey.

From Merritt's point of view, exactly why is Joey's great salesmanship needed after the deals have been struck?

Also from Merritt's point of view we've seen Joey was no longer giving him the work, MSM had replaced him virtually as soon as they moved into the MSM workshop in the summer of 2009. Merritt was now only plumbing and crating. He had proven himself to be a liability to Joey with his poor work ethic and standards, and was not a good bet for Joey to take with him into the future, as evidenced by the chargebacks and disasters Joey was seeking to recover from him.

We can forget the lies the defense has spun, it's in his and Cathy's own words -

Merritt, Feb 3rd 2019:

"Well I was supposed to, I was supposed to give him back $19000 over a period of time."

"tell Raj you just need to lead me, and he will."


Cathy Jarvis, Oct 11th 2014:

"Well who haven’t you pissed off?"

"Chase, like everybody! Like everybody I can think that you’ve come into contact with. Customers, business associates, you piss everybody off, because you, you end up walking away, you don’t follow through, you don’t finish, you piss a lot of people off. Sighs. And that’s what I told the detectives, I said that’s what I couldn’t, I couldn’t take that chance with my family because you were, you’re too reckless, you don’t think about the consequences of things and I, I, I thought you were going to piss off the wrong person and they were going to come after you and/or us. I said if anything it would be Chase would be the one that ends up dead. He’s going to piss off the wrong person one day, he’s going to end up dead. But for him to, to take somebody else out that’s just doesn’t make sense. He just doesn’t care that much about anything or anyone…"

"You don’t stop doing the bad things that you do"

Feb 1st Joey formalized the debt he was seeking to recover from Merritt in an email signed "Sincerely" - $42,845.

The $19,000 is in there.



Why did Merritt need to open a bank account on Feb 3rd? He'd had no problem cashing Joey's cheques. Cash was how the Merritt/Jarvis clan survived.

Cathy Jarvis testimony Day 29 Part 4 -

RM: Did, are you familiar with whether or not Chase sometimes used cash to pay for materials?

CJ: Yes.

RM: Was there a reason for that?

CJ: I, if there was I don’t know, uh, we, we tended as a family to use cash more often at that point um, I already had a bankruptcy, we didn’t have a lot of credit so we paid cash for practically everything.

RM: Is that also something that you did when you worked with Chase, is back in the, when you were in Pomona his other shop that you talked about, was cash often used as a means to conduct business?

CJ: Yes.

RM: But Chase in 2010, in the beginning of 2010, he continued using that method as far as you knew, of paying cash to various suppliers and so forth?

CJ: Yes.

 

[Tortoise]

But it is way biased. Very pro defense, Missy, from the very beginning.

They're not even factual. This from their piece dated May 10th -

"there is evidence to suggest that Kavanaugh’s credit card was in the possession of his then-girlfriend, Lauren Knowles, who was in Hawaii."

Defense Stressing Kavanaugh As McStay Family Murder Trial Winds Down | SBCSentinel

 

[mrjitty]

The SA deal intrigues me actually. I wonder how that came about? Don't they have any good talented people in SA which i think is a wealthy oil and gold rich country. Why would they have got someone in the U.S. involved in such a project i wonder?

SEO is my guess.

They googled for a supplier and EIP was no 1

 

[mrjitty]

No, SA was one fountain with no future prospects there.

This is why SEO was the entire value in the business.

You are not going to see much repeat custom or word of mouth in this business - except where you sell to a chain that has multiple locations.

 

[mrjitty]

They're not even factual. This from their piece dated May 10th -

"there is evidence to suggest that Kavanaugh’s credit card was in the possession of his then-girlfriend, Lauren Knowles, who was in Hawaii."

Defense Stressing Kavanaugh As McStay Family Murder Trial Winds Down | SBCSentinel

I was going to do a critique on the article but the writing/formatting was so bad i felt it doesn't deserve the effort.

I am still waiting for anyone, including the defence to address the big question below.

I find it fascinating and revealing that Forensic Man didn't address it, and since then the defence studiously ignored the matter.

RSBM

I am wondering how you believe the backdated cheques created by Chase on the 5th and afterwards have been challenged by the witnesses?

The heart of the prosecution case is that the backdating indicates guilty knowledge that Joey was missing

As I am yet to hear any defence witness give an explanation for this key plank of evidence, I would genuinely be interested in how you weigh it?

Are you simply saying it's mysterious but could just be a quirk?

 

[Tortoise]

Since the first poll has now expired I've set up a new one.

Cast your vote here -

POLL - Did Chase Merritt murder the McStay family?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I was going to do a critique on the article but the writing/formatting was so bad i felt it doesn't deserve the effort.

I am still waiting for anyone, including the defence to address the big question below.

I find it fascinating and revealing that Forensic Man didn't address it, and since then the defence studiously ignored the matter.

I find it odd that very important question is never answered.

Why? Imo, because there is no other reasonable conclusion or answer that can explain it any other way than exactly what it shows.

Imo, this is the very reason the DT has really tried to ignore the huge white elephant in the room.

The same reason they haven't tried to shore up CM non verifiable alibi whereabouts during all of the times in question.

What has been shown to the jury though is DKs whereabouts have been backed up by documentation the jury can hold in their hands, and see for themselves being able to review them.

Since CM seemed so busy, and out, and about a lot where are his own documents showing his whereabouts?

He paid cash because no one would accept anything other than cash, but all cash customers receive invoices marked paid to have for their own accounting records. Who was doing CMs accounting at the time? Surely he would be able to prove even one location he was at during the important timeline paying cash for materials?
But nope, nothing but crickets chirping. Was CJ asked if he brought any paid invoices home during these periods?

All self employed business owners keep all invoices they have paid since all are deductions that will reduce their taxes owed.

So where are CM documents showing his different locations on the days in question like the documentation evidence which has been entered on DKs whereabouts?

Its interesting the state has produced hard evidence of DKs whereabouts, yet the DT has failed to do the same for the accused. Imo, which is a far more important matter for the jury. Imo, the jury wants to see CMs verified documented alibi since he is the man on trial.

Oh btw, where is the credit card receipt showing Joey had paid for their lunch on the 4th as CM has said happened? Nothing this defendant has said is ever backed up with any verifiable proof. Hmmm, coincidence? I think not.

Narcissists believe their lies will simply be believed without question. CM thought the same. He really felt he could trick the police into accepting all of his lies.

After all he had spent his adult life honing his craft as a career conman. He thought he owned the interviews with LE.

CM thought he had this in the bag, easy peasy, thinking his deceitful life would continue with him walking away unscathed.

However, narcissists, and pathological liars often become their own worst enemy in the end, especially when they become cold blooded murderers.

JMHOO

 

[smr]

Like the New Year's greeting he sent to DK? Or who knows how many other people?
An individual doesn't need a history of violent crime to commit one.

Nor does any individual need theft or burglary crimes to commit murder.

 

[mrjitty]

I find it odd that very important question is never answered.

Why? Imo, because there is no other reasonable conclusion or answer that can explain it any other way than exactly what it shows.

Imo, this is the very reason the DT has really tried to ignore the huge white elephant in the room.

RSBM

Yes - and its critical IMO because of the cascading nature of the process of inference.

IMO the conclusion that the deleted Paul Mitchell cheque on the 5th was fraudulent is inevitable, because the defence have not produced any credible evidence to the contrary. Therefore the natural and obvious inference must stand.

If I were a Judge sitting on the case, this would be the central starting point of my inquiry.

My second conclusion, which must follow, is that the backdating was part of the fraud. Otherwise why do it.

But who could the backdating deceive? Certainly not Joey.

And here is where the difference between the first 2 deleted cheques is critical. The first deleted cheque was not backdated. The rest all were.

So what changed? Well Joey went dark on the 4th.

So it's clear the deception is now intended to defeat not Joey but 3rd parties and/or law enforcement.

These key findings colour everything else. e.g when looking at the calls to Quickbooks, we must examine them in light of our cheque fraud finding.

Ditto when examining the deleted Paul Mitchell cheque of the 4th

etc etc

my .02 pence of the queens currency

 

[Mony Mony]

IMO, the backdating and the call to QB pretending to be a dead man is what will convict the two timed felon of quadruple murder. The defense has not offered a reasonable and believable explanation. IMO

 

[mrjitty]

IMO, the backdating and the call to QB pretending to be a dead man is what will convict the two timed felon of quadruple murder. The defense has not offered a reasonable and believable explanation. IMO

Exactly.

A reasonable juror needs to make the obvious and logical inferences here. For me it is critical that the forensic accountant offered no explanation for deleting / backdating.

I cannot take seriously wild speculation about new approaches to Joeys accounting systems vs a multi year course of dealing when he never deleted his cheques and never wrote them from custom.

It's simply too suspicious.