Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[susiQ]

Good question. Seems highly risky and I can't think of a good answer unless somehow the suspect thought he'd make a mistake by trying to dispose of it somewhere else. Perhaps he just knew he could at some point later? Does anyone remember someone around the investigation (possibly Leazenby) that talked about the suspect moving around a lot? I can't remember, but I'll look.



Thanks MsBetsy. I wasn't sure how many towers were located around the area and if their positions/equipment would provide data for triangulation or not.

I think Leazenby spoke about the killer being able to "get around quickly," iirc.
eta: I think he meant with respect to how quickly the murders occurred and how quickly he was able to get out of there without being noticed, as far as we know.

 

[MsBetsy]

I always wondered if his family or close friends ever noticed any troubling red flags?

If they did they didn't say so.
I get the feeling BG does not have his own family, lives alone and does not spend much time with parents or siblings if he has them.
I just can't imagine him living with someone day after day and them not noticing a change in him.
Unless they have and they are protecting him. Imo

 

[Cutiekitty]

This looks like it was recorded without her knowledge. If it was so wrong.

It’s actually part of a series. The person did additional interviews of other family members. Pretty sure they all knew and it’s just his recording style.

 

[MsBetsy]

Good question. Seems highly risky and I can't think of a good answer unless somehow the suspect thought he'd make a mistake by trying to dispose of it somewhere else. Perhaps he just knew he could at some point later? Does anyone remember someone around the investigation (possibly Leazenby) that talked about the suspect moving around a lot? I can't remember, but I'll look.



Thanks MsBetsy. I wasn't sure how many towers were located around the area and if their positions/equipment would provide data for triangulation or not.

Yeah, I don't know how that works with pings but I remember a discussion about it and I'm trusting others know more about it than I do!

 

[nearsouth]

I think Leazenby spoke about the killer being able to "get around quickly," iirc.
eta: I think he meant with respect to how quickly the murders occurred and how quickly he was able to get out of there without being noticed, as far as we know.

Yeah that's it - I thought I saw him in a video saying that but I just couldn't remember exactly. So much media out there...

That's what he probably meant (getting away from scene quickly), but I thought there is a possibility that if he knew the phone was somehow moving around after the murders and then was returned near the scene that would explain all of the comments ('twist', 'pinging around town', and 'get around quickly').

 

[nearsouth]

Yeah, I don't know how that works with pings but I remember a discussion about it and I'm trusting others know more about it than I do!

I know a little about it, but not enough to be any kind of authority on it. I know many cases use it as evidence, but I also know it's not always reliable in terms of specific location.

 

[MsBetsy]

I know a little about it, but not enough to be any kind of authority on it. I know many cases use it as evidence, but I also know it's not always reliable in terms of specific location.

Well, one thing I'm pretty sure we don't know is whether or not the killer had a phone with him. Imo

 

[x_files]

Sorry if this a bit random and also if already been discussed. Just was talking this case over with a sleuthing IRL friend!

Libby took classes at Purdue. I have read they were science classes, but that she was also interested in crime scene investigation and forensics. Did she take any classes pertaining to that? Perhaps another student was also *interested* in crime/forensics for different reasons.

Even if she did take just general science classes - I wonder if LE has taken a look at the class list and done any investigating of the students who were in her class? I would assume it was a 101 type class - so mostly freshman and sophomores. Some of those intro classes are huge so someone could have noticed/stalked her without her noticing back. Do we know if she was taking classes that semester? Maybe he overheard her making a plan on the phone or telling another student what she was doing on the day off?

A poster made a comment right after the new sketch came out that said "looks like an arrogant frat boy" and it has stuck with me. With the new age range and sketch I think looking into Purdue and other local colleges is important. College doesn't have such structured 8-3 classes, allowing for an afternoon off and other kids don't keep track of each other's whereabouts quite like parents/wives/coworkers do. Plus coming home to a frat house or dorm room instead of parents/family might be easier to have a change in behavior go unnoticed.

Maybe Libby heard about a creepy guy hanging out at the bridge and went to investigate him? Maybe BG haunted this place prior? Maybe Abby mentioned him to Libby.

 

[tresir2012]

I think @ab01 explained it well. Twice.

It's the same when it comes to the "creepy guy" statement. People continue to reference it, even though the comment was made outside of MSM.

The original question was "does more audio or video exist". I explained that I made a mistake by quoting a non-MSM source, but I also listed at least 4 MSM sources that DOES answer the question as to whether more audio/video exists. My post was made early this morning and by the time someone quoted it, I was not able to edit it.

I was only asking if the 8 minutes had been mentioned in that interview or whether there was a link. If the 8 minutes does not exist that is all I needed confirmed. I already knew more than we have heard exists, we don't know how much. I thought I had missed an important point somewhere along the way. Thanks for further clarity.

 

[tresir2012]

Maybe Libby heard about a creepy guy hanging out at the bridge and went to investigate him? Maybe BG haunted this place prior? Maybe Abby mentioned him to Libby.

Oh no not creepy guy again. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think Leazenby spoke about the killer being able to "get around quickly," iirc.
eta: I think he meant with respect to how quickly the murders occurred and how quickly he was able to get out of there without being noticed, as far as we know.

Maybe, he even showed up at another venue.

 

[x_files]

Oh no not creepy guy again. MOO

lol! No, I'm not quoting or misquoting her... since Libby was interested in FORENSIC SCIENCE and mysteries maybe they chose the bridge and park to explore and to investigate rumors of "creepy" criminal behavior. But never mentioned to her parents before she went.

 

[FreshEyes]

Question about voice recognition analysis.
Say someone was recorded in early 2017 and used the word "guys" in the recorded conversation. Could a voice expert compare it to the "guys" from the bridge audio and determine if they were a close match? Do voice recordings have a signature that can be matched?
TIA

--- all speculation and opinion ---

 

[Cutiekitty]

I think a lot of times that lack of information leads to overthinking when, most of the time, things are much simpler than they appear.

- Carter references a very popular Christian movie called THE SHACK-a movie that came out not long after the girls were murdered-so the girls must have been taken to an outbuilding.

- The searcher asked Kelsi what color shoes Libby was wearing* so the girls must either have been nude or the shoe was off her foot.

- Carter, someone who's made other religious remarks, states that the girls are not how BG left them so it must mean that they were "posed" in death.

- Because nobody heard the girls scream, it must mean that BG used a ruse, like a fake badge, to get them to go "down the hill."

- BG's clothing appear "too big" for him, so he must have been in a disguise, including a fake nose and possible wig.

IMO the idea that this could've been totally random is so scary that it's also why many people think there was a social media connection and that BG followed them there-even though the family has stated that it was a last minute decision and no online activity has been reported (either through rumor or reporting).

Sometimes when you follow a lot of crimes your mind goes into overdrive. IMO this crime is a simple one. It's finding BG that's difficult.

* After reading more about the "shoe" incident it sounds like the searcher asked Kelsi what Libby was wearing (as in all of her clothing) and SHE was the one who replied and specified the color of her shoes. That's different than the searcher asking what color shoes Libby had on.

I agree with 99% of your assessment. Still think there is a social media angle that either has not been uncovered or has not been disclosed. Not saying that the girls directly contacted BG via SM that day, but I will not be surprised if they are connected in someway via SM.

 

[kc1023]

dbm

 

[BNA]

incorrect reporting..the girls bodies were found by edge of water..they were found upan embankment- in a clearing-on Ron Logan's land. Logan's land doesn't have the creek that they found girls underclothes in.

Wait. Wut??

 

[tresir2012]

BBM. Except maybe his coat is inside out. MOO'ing along...

Ha yeah, and perhaps black on the other side (the man in black.)
IMO

 

[MassGuy]

Question about voice recognition analysis.
Say someone was recorded in early 2017 and used the word "guys" in the recorded conversation. Could a voice expert compare it to the "guys" from the bridge audio and determine if they were a close match? Do voice recordings have a signature that can be matched?
TIA

--- all speculation and opinion ---

I’ve been reading about that sort of thing, and my biggest takeaway is that it’s not like “CSI.”

You need a long sample, it is thrown off by poor sound quality, and its accuracy is disputed.

It works well when you have studio recorded audio samples, but not so much in real world conditions.

 

[mtnlites]

I agree with 99% of your assessment. Still think there is a social media angle that either has not been uncovered or has not been disclosed. Not saying that the girls directly contacted BG via SM that day, but I will not be surprised if they are connected in someway via SM.

I was shocked as hell to find out that there was zero online connection between Jayme Closs and JP. I thought for sure that there would be something in SM. There wasn't. And that guy actually did target her.

 

[IQuestion]

Great suggestion.

It would not be too difficult for LE to identify if she was actively taking any classes. The hard part would be for LE to try to get photos of every person taking the same class but I agree it would be well worth the effort.

Somehow BG ended up on the same bridge as the girls that day. Its still a question whether it was a random encounter by him or if he somehow knew in advance that they would be there.

HI Hatfield bbm-above...just about every college campus requires students get photo ID's when they register. (Campus security is a big issue at colleges, now.)
Photos are the easy part.....getting someone to give DNA when they register/or finding a match to the DNA found at the crime scene is the issue....IN MY OPINION.
A youthful offender may not have DNA on file. But I know there is no way a person could have had so much contact with the victims and not left tons of DNA. (I recall MP saying Libby had "put up a fight" ...some transfer had to occur IMO.)