GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[deugirtni]

Someone earlier had asked the question about how RD came to acquire these 19 franchises in the first place.. I'm sorry I don't have the post, or know the poster's name, but I remember reading it, and it has stuck in my head. So yes, RD was an executive at a clock company, I'm sure that was a wonderful position and that he had a great career, and that he probably walked out of there with a very handsome pension. But how does one acquire 19 popular fast-food chain franchises?

So upon pondering that thought, I wondered if it is possible that this story could go further back to the days when RD was employed.. and I'm wondering if there could be more to the way in which he exited, than just a simple retirement. Although..... in counting back, it seems like RD would have been at the right age for that, so this is perhaps fruitless. And if there was some big 'to-do' (perhaps between RD and some other management person/people) wherein RD ended up being asked to leave, with a big pile of money to make up for some kind of an early dismissal and to promise his silence on the matter, and prevent any wrongful dismissal types of claims.. then surely people would have known about it, and SS would have discovered this information. So swipe that theory.. but still.. where'd the initial money come from to purchase those 19 franchises?

 

[deugirtni]

DG, OH MY GOSH, NOT THE DAUGHTER ? THE DIVORCE RIGHT AT THE TIME OF THE D'S DEATHS. . BOTH ARE DOCTORS, CREEPY THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD

'Both are doctors' - both what? Do you mean the daughter's first husband... and.... ? the daughter? Or the 2nd husband? Or ?

The divorce timing is very coincidental, isn't it? But the last thing one would want, would be their ex-spouse to be involved in some kind of crime/conspiracy with them, so that they held something over them for the rest of their lives? And alternately, for a soon-to-be ex to be thinking along those lines - but for it to have no impact whatsoever on his own financial outlook, doesn't make sense either?

Here in Canada, if one spouse inherits a pile of money from the death of a parent, that money is excluded from having to be split during a divorce. Is it the same way there in the USA?

 

[deugirtni]

Another thought. I've known of a few parents who sold or gave the family business to their kids but they stayed on as consultants and were paid X amount each year. Wonder if the Dermonds had this type of deal

I could certainly understand how that could work... but the franchises would still have been 'sold' (or gifted) to the offspring in the first place, and then that 'consultant's fee' would give the parent some retirement income on top - perhaps to replace a portion of the sales price? (Otherwise, if the franchises were sold just for a consultant's fee going forward - the parent(s) could die one year later, and the franchises would have been sold for grossly under-value. But if there are 3 kids and only 2 are involved in that 'gifting', or that 'reduced pricing', how does the third child get the same from the parent (assuming the parents would want their 3 kids to be treated equally).

 

[fred&edna]

I’ll drop a nugget. The Dermond’s didn’t allow house guests outside of family. I’ve not heard of anyone that ever visited that house, no friends, no clergy, just family.

One occasion two neighbors knocked on the front door and heard multiple people in the house. Shirley came to the door but didn’t invite the neighbors inside. Russ drove up and the neighbors left. This event was late April of 2014.

Do you know the reason why these neighbors visited the Dermonds? (I've simply chatted with neighbors on the front porch on occasion depending on the reason for the visit). Did they know the Dermonds were entertaining other people before they arrived? Did the visitors see vehicles in the driveway that possibly belonged to others already inside the home.

Sorry for all the rapid-fire questions! Any info coming from neighbors (or anyone within the community) is valuable. We really know so little about their friends.

 

[jggordo]

Having spent my entire adult life in the food and beverage industry I can tell you that the profit margin in the fast food business is very small. Usually about 10% if all goes well. A family can have a very successful "Mom and Pop" restaurant and support a small family accordingly. However a "Franchise" restaurant is a very different situation. In essence the Franchisee owner works for the Franchisor. After paying all the "Franchise Fees" there is even less profit margin left.

Fees and Estimated Costs

• Application Fee – $5,000
• Background Check Fee – $325 per person
• Technical Assistance Fee – $40,000 per restaurant (franchise fee – for a 20 year term)
• Royalties – 4% of gross sales
• National advertising – 3.5% of gross sales
• Local advertising – 0.5% of gross sales
• Initial investment (for development of new restaurants) – There are many factors that influence the development costs for a new restaurant including, but not limited to: the cost of real estate, building size and design features, local labor and building supplies, permitting, etc. The estimated total investment required to begin operation of a new restaurant normally ranges from $2,000,000 to $3,500,000.

All in all, in the end the Franchise BELONGS to the Franchisor. The family can will the restaurants themselves with all the assets, etc. However that sign out front and the rights to use the name, menu and everything else is NOT the family's to transfer and must be approved by the parent Franchisor. It's kind of like giving your car to your child at your death. Without a license they can't drive it.

JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Having spent my entire adult life in the food and beverage industry I can tell you that the profit margin in the fast food business is very small. Usually about 10% if all goes well. A family can have a very successful "Mom and Pop" restaurant and support a small family accordingly. However a "Franchise" restaurant is a very different situation. In essence the Franchisee owner works for the Franchisor. After paying all the "Franchise Fees" there is even less profit margin left.

Fees and Estimated Costs

• Application Fee – $5,000
• Background Check Fee – $325 per person
• Technical Assistance Fee – $40,000 per restaurant (franchise fee – for a 20 year term)
• Royalties – 4% of gross sales
• National advertising – 3.5% of gross sales
• Local advertising – 0.5% of gross sales
• Initial investment (for development of new restaurants) – There are many factors that influence the development costs for a new restaurant including, but not limited to: the cost of real estate, building size and design features, local labor and building supplies, permitting, etc. The estimated total investment required to begin operation of a new restaurant normally ranges from $2,000,000 to $3,500,000.

All in all, in the end the Franchise BELONGS to the Franchisor. The family can will the restaurants themselves with all the assets, etc. However that sign out front and the rights to use the name, menu and everything else is NOT the family's to transfer and must be approved by the parent Franchisor. It's kind of like giving your car to your child at your death. Without a license they can't drive it.

JMO

On the other hand, franchises have a much greater opportunity to see a lot of revenue, just based on their name brand, whereas a mom and pop shop would not. If franchises were not profitable, why would they be so popular and have so many people, after years and years, willing to buy them?
Would be interesting for sure to know some particulars of those specific franchise agreements. It says in the one article at least, that the sons 'took them over'. I don't think I have ever read that the sons 'bought' them, or that RD 'sold' them.
Where I live there is a mega franchise which has probably billions of locations everywhere, and many of the owners own a few of them. Maybe it is more profitable to own more? Anyway, the owner of 4 of these is in the process of selling them.. to a fellow who at one time, was an employee.. they have some kind of an arrangement/financial agreement going. Not sure how that all works as far as the 'approvals process', which also must be done, but it must be possible to sell/have new owners as long as one does receive approval and has the money?

 

[1&2&3]

IIRC, the boys were given the restaurants while Russell was still alive. They had been running them, however, one son had gotten out of the business recently before the Drummond’s death. Is that correct?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Someone earlier had asked the question about how RD came to acquire these 19 franchises in the first place.. I'm sorry I don't have the post, or know the poster's name, but I remember reading it, and it has stuck in my head. So yes, RD was an executive at a clock company, I'm sure that was a wonderful position and that he had a great career, and that he probably walked out of there with a very handsome pension. But how does one acquire 19 popular fast-food chain franchises?

So upon pondering that thought, I wondered if it is possible that this story could go further back to the days when RD was employed.. and I'm wondering if there could be more to the way in which he exited, than just a simple retirement. Although..... in counting back, it seems like RD would have been at the right age for that, so this is perhaps fruitless. And if there was some big 'to-do' (perhaps between RD and some other management person/people) wherein RD ended up being asked to leave, with a big pile of money to make up for some kind of an early dismissal and to promise his silence on the matter, and prevent any wrongful dismissal types of claims.. then surely people would have known about it, and SS would have discovered this information. So swipe that theory.. but still.. where'd the initial money come from to purchase those 19 franchises?

That Questiin has been posed time and again DG AND ITS a good one

I am not aware when his father died but RD mother died after she came to GA some time later

Inheritance is a possibility i would guess

And her parents, i never tracked

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

The story goes, from one of the sons, RD opened those franchises solely for his children

Franchises are not cheap butcthey get you set up and in good locations according to demograhics based on their own criteria

On the other hand, franchises have a much greater opportunity to see a lot of revenue, just based on their name brand, whereas a mom and pop shop would not. If franchises were not profitable, why would they be so popular and have so many people, after years and years, willing to buy them?
Would be interesting for sure to know some particulars of those specific franchise agreements. It says in the one article at least, that the sons 'took them over'. I don't think I have ever read that the sons 'bought' them, or that RD 'sold' them.
Where I live there is a mega franchise which has probably billions of locations everywhere, and many of the owners own a few of them. Maybe it is more profitable to own more? Anyway, the owner of 4 of these is in the process of selling them.. to a fellow who at one time, was an employee.. they have some kind of an arrangement/financial agreement going. Not sure how that all works as far as the 'approvals process', which also must be done, but it must be possible to sell/have new owners as long as one does receive approval and has the money?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

20 years ago the dermonds were 68

My guess is they didn't want to keep running those at 70 yrs old and it was told they set them up for the sons...probsvly inherited some money and was able to make a enough to live comfortably and passed them on

I know the older i get the less i want to manage it upkeep

We don't know if the Dermons took extravagant vacations or not

I saw they went to europe woth some family i think it was several years before they died maybe

SS didn't go back more than 10 years if that

It seems only the 2 sons were involved in the fast-food franchises, and not the one daughter, so it would be important to know exactly how that/those franchise deals worked, and perhaps for SS to have delved deep into the D's finances for much longer than 8 years.

To end up with only the family home and a million and a half dollars in your estate, after having owned some 19 (was it 19?) popular franchises, with no seemingly extravagant vacations, vehicles, hobbies, vices, or other properties, seems like something (like a great big chunk) is missing, to me at least. Would it have taken all of the proceeds of selling 19 franchises to initially purchase their family home and retire? Would the sons at that time have been able to purchase 19 of them outright? If not sold to the sons at full value, then how was the daughter compensated to equalize that 'gift' amongst all their children - should she have perhaps received that 'equalization' after their deaths - but yet it was said the proceeds of the estate were split equally amongst the 3 kids when they died, and another time SS stated the one grandchild had received a small amount too. Franchises were expensive to buy even back when the RD sold his 19 locations!

In the 1990s, they moved to Georgia, where Mr. Dermond acquired 19 Atlanta-area Hardee's franchises. Their two sons, Keith and Bradley, worked with their dad.
....
The Dermonds were now officially retired. Their sons took over the the restaurants.
....
Their parents' wills divided their estate equally between the three.

The Murders of Elderly Georgia Couple Russell and Shirley Dermond: A Beheading and No Leads
-----
Though Sheriff Howard Sills says they had retired, they earned a living in the fast food business. Records show the Dermonds owned Wendy's and Hardees franchises as recently as the late 1990's.

Two of their sons, Bradley and Keith, followed in their parents footsteps. They own Florida-based Ramsey Development, which operates fast-food restaurants. According to the Florida Secretary of State's Office, the firm employs 700 people and generates more than $14 million in revenue a year.

Previously, the brothers owned and managed Dermond Food Services, a family business that legal documents show dissolved voluntarily in 2001 with all fees paid and no signs of outstanding debt.

Bradley Dermond is also a real-estate agent at Sotheby's International Realty, according to his profile on sothebysrealty.com.

Another son, Mark, was fatally shot at age 47 in August 2000 as he was buying drugs near the Atlanta University Center. The man convicted of the murder, Troy Major, is serving a life sentence at the maximum-security Georgia State Prison in Tattnall County, according to the Department of Corrections database.

As for Russell and Shirley Dermond, a search of online tax records doesn't show any other property holdings.

Dermond family established in restaurant business
-----
A couple of previous posts to same effect:

GA - GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

GA - GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

 

[TJtennispro]

You got a link for your 10 year claim? I know that’s false.

20 years ago the dermonds were 68


SS didn't go back more than 10 years if that

 

[TJtennispro]

the people I know said that two women who knew the Dermond’s were out walking one day and decided to stop at the Dermond house to ask Shirley about something. [t was extremely hot and when Shirley came to the door, they asked for some water and instead of inviting them in, she asked them to wait, shut the door and brought them two glasses of water. They thought it was very odd that she didn't even invite them into the foyer to cool off a minute while she got the water. Before the murders, they said that the day they went to the house, they heard people talking inside when they rang the doorbell, but the husband wasn't home because he came into the driveway as they were leaving. I suppose it could have been one of their children or grandchildren in the house, but they said later that Shirley seemed out of sorts when she answered the door and made them feel like they were imposing on her.

Do you know the reason why these neighbors visited the Dermonds? (I've simply chatted with neighbors on the front porch on occasion depending on the reason for the visit). Did they know the Dermonds were entertaining other people before they arrived? Did the visitors see vehicles in the driveway that possibly belonged to others already inside the home.

Sorry for all the rapid-fire questions! Any info coming from neighbors (or anyone within the community) is valuable. We really know so little about their friends.

 

[fred&edna]

the people I know said that two women who knew the Dermond’s were out walking one day and decided to stop at the Dermond house to ask Shirley about something. [t was extremely hot and when Shirley came to the door, they asked for some water and instead of inviting them in, she asked them to wait, shut the door and brought them two glasses of water. They thought it was very odd that she didn't even invite them into the foyer to cool off a minute while she got the water. Before the murders, they said that the day they went to the house, they heard people talking inside when they rang the doorbell, but the husband wasn't home because he came into the driveway as they were leaving. I suppose it could have been one of their children or grandchildren in the house, but they said later that Shirley seemed out of sorts when she answered the door and made them feel like they were imposing on her.

Hmm... Interesting! Highly possible something was up during this time.
Thank you for the info! I was hoping they might have noticed out of state license plates on any cars in Dermonds driveway.

Oh.... Another question... Do you (or neighbors) happen to know anything about lawn and/or housekeeping services the Dermonds might have used? Sometimes neighbors hire same companies for these services.

 

[fred&edna]

I remember reading that some mornings Mr D would often meet a few pals and chat over coffee (my own father used to do the same). My dad did not share much because he knew most of what was said was simply gossip and not worth repeating. However, now and again, he would come back with a nugget or two of reliable info. Would love to talk to Mr D's pals... Get an idea of what they think about everything.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Do you know the reason why these neighbors visited the Dermonds? (I've simply chatted with neighbors on the front porch on occasion depending on the reason for the visit). Did they know the Dermonds were entertaining other people before they arrived? Did the visitors see vehicles in the driveway that possibly belonged to others already inside the home.

Sorry for all the rapid-fire questions! Any info coming from neighbors (or anyone within the community) is valuable. We really know so little about their friends.

Hey Fred and Edna...what neighbors visited the derminds, i might be missing some posts, thank you

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Wouldn't that be around the time the daughter was visiting?

 

[fred&edna]

Hey Fred and Edna...what neighbors visited the derminds, i might be missing some posts, thank you

I quoted the post in my reply (TJtennispro said neighbors visited the Dermonds - late April)

 

[Deleted member 162919]

I remember in one of the interviews they mentioned the daughter was there about 10 days before the murders and there was something about the alarm not sure exactly what.

 

[wildebeest]

I’ll drop a nugget. The Dermond’s didn’t allow house guests outside of family. I’ve not heard of anyone that ever visited that house, no friends, no clergy, just family.

One occasion two neighbors knocked on the front door and heard multiple people in the house. Shirley came to the door but didn’t invite the neighbors inside. Russ drove up and the neighbors left. This event was late April of 2014.

WOW, tennis! That’s more than a nugget, how about a bomb?

I assume you heard this through the grapevine. It bolsters my theory...

Thank you

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

He said how long on an early interview, said maybe he should go bsck further, Google it, could be off a bit bit he didn't go bsck 20 I dont think...

oh oh.........you're right Hockey, bolded below.........since they went to great lengths to not be discovered, that would have been a major mistake if they'd been videoed

You got a link for your 10 year claim? I know that’s false.