Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[tresir2012]

Here's the article mentioning "brother"
Grandfather of one of murdered Indiana teens speaks out | Daily Mail Online

TYVM Paula.

 

[tresir2012]

What evidence was there for LE to call that indicated the girls had been abducted and were in danger of seriously bodily harm or death when the missing persons report was initially filed?

All that was known at the time was they weren’t at the pickup location and Libby wasn’t answering her phone. No sightings of two teens being abducted, no 911 calls, no screams, nothing was reported to have occurred that afternoon .....which assumably was the reason foul play wasn’t initially suspected.

They were good girls and suddenly both disappeared is reason enough to suspect this. The instruction doesn't say they need evidence, just a belief.

 

[Boxer]

What evidence was there for LE to call that indicated the girls had been abducted and were in danger of seriously bodily harm or death when the missing persons report was initially filed?

All that was known at the time was they weren’t at the pickup location and Libby wasn’t answering her phone. No sightings of two teens being abducted, no 911 calls, no screams, nothing was reported to have occurred that afternoon .....which assumably was the reason foul play wasn’t initially suspected.

Only about 200 amber alerts are called each year. Always with the idea that the public can very clearly help the police. Unfortunately with no abductor or vehicle description, not showing up as arranged did not meet the criteria.
The parents knew in their gut it was all wrong, and the searchers that worked though the night knew it, actually everyone that listened to news on 2/13/17 was holding their breath hoping it wasn't what it turned out to be.

 

[Boxer]

They were good girls and suddenly both disappeared is reason enough to suspect this. The instruction doesn't say they need evidence, just a belief.

Amber alert rules are different state to state.
I just looked at the Indiana criteria, and you are right, an Amber Alert could have been called.
IIRC somewhere in a video interview somewhere, Leazenby requested an Amber Alert from the state but was denied due to lack of information.

Amber Alert: Amber Plan

 

[tresir2012]

Mystery deepens as officials search for 'key' in girls' murders

Hadn't seen this article before.

"Walsh said it's likely the killer is "very close to the investigation" and is likely "trying to take the temperature of the investigators to determine what they know and how hot on his trail they are."

"It's not unlikely he could have been a volunteer in the search" for the girls that first day they went missing, Walsh added."

From the link also.

"Carroll County, Indiana, is very rural ... when the superintendent of the police says 'local,' that's not just the town of Delphi. That's Carroll County," Garrett said. "This person could well live 15 miles from Delphi, but they're from here, they know that trail, they walk that trail ... it's reasonable to think that the killer isn't down the street from the trail, but he's in the proximity."

(MORE: As 1st Christmas goes by since unsolved killings of Indiana teens, mom is confident 'we'll have our answers')
Garrett said that particular trail likely wouldn't have visitors from outside the area.

"The idea that a random person would happen to be walking down the railroad track and happen upon these two victims, and that they had never been there before, I think is low," Garrett said.

Alex Perez/ABC News
Flowers sit by a bridge near Delphi, Ind. where Liberty German and Abigail Williams were seen before they were reported missing by their families on Feb. 13, 2017.more +

Serial offenders often do not leave the area where they committed their crimes, Garrett said, because "they feel comfortable that they're not gonna get caught."

"This particular killer, he's on a remote trail -- if he believes that nobody else saw him actually harm these two girls, then in his mind, he feels like he's home free," Garrett said.

"He's going to be somebody that is pretty good at keeping his mouth shut. That doesn't mean somebody doesn't know something, but he's been very good at maintaining his lifestyle," Garrett continued. "Some killers have an innate ability to do that ... it goes with criminals' ability to place their life in boxes -- commit these crimes, do awful things, continue on their normal life."

 

[tresir2012]

Only about 200 amber alerts are called each year. Always with the idea that the public can very clearly help the police. Unfortunately with no abductor or vehicle description, not showing up as arranged did not meet the criteria.
The parents knew in their gut it was all wrong, and the searchers that worked though the night knew it, actually everyone that listened to news on 2/13/17 was holding their breath hoping it wasn't what it turned out to be.

And I wonder how many are more than one child going missing together? Is that 200 just for Indiana?
They had really good descriptions of the girls after all, knowing exactly what they were wearing and the SC photo.

 

[MistyWaters]

None of it appears terribly sophisticated, TBF. I watched a superb Australian program the other night and part of a profile there that was fascinating was that killers in somewhat remote areas can always be shown to have detailed knowledge through previous visits of those areas. That wasn't mentioned at all. Nor was, for that matter, if the assailant would have been wet or covered with blood.

That almost makes me think he was neither.

Yes I agree. This quote was from only weeks later, March 8, 2017. It’s sort of interesting to reflect on because more than two years later, LE has still not ruled out a local person and we know nothing conclusive regarding DNA. I think many of LE statements are intentionally framed with a high level of confidence whether it’s warranted or not. We can only hope the continued awareness brings that one tip or evidence required to crack the case.

“Indiana State Police superintendent Doug Carter says they have several pieces and parts but they are looking for the one piece of evidence that will crack the case.

“I know that we have the human element – we have a very solid science element,” he said. “We are using every capable process that we have from a scientific perspective as everyone would expect us to, and we will continue to do that until there is nothing left to do. does that include DNA? It does. We have not ruled out the possibility that it is a local person. Every time we clear somebody it gets us closer. We are confident that somewhere in the tips we have valuable information and every time we can eliminate one we can move on to the next.”...”
FBI putting together profile of suspect accused of killing Delphi teens

 

[Jamie737]

Yes I agree. This quote was from only weeks later, March 8, 2017. It’s sort of interesting to reflect on because more than two years later, LE has still not ruled out a local person and we know nothing conclusive regarding DNA. I think many of LE statements are intentionally framed with a high level of confidence whether it’s warranted or not. We can only hope the continued awareness brings that one tip or evidence required to crack the case.

“Indiana State Police superintendent Doug Carter says they have several pieces and parts but they are looking for the one piece of evidence that will crack the case.

“I know that we have the human element – we have a very solid science element,” he said. “We are using every capable process that we have from a scientific perspective as everyone would expect us to, and we will continue to do that until there is nothing left to do. does that include DNA? It does. We have not ruled out the possibility that it is a local person. Every time we clear somebody it gets us closer. We are confident that somewhere in the tips we have valuable information and every time we can eliminate one we can move on to the next.”...”
FBI putting together profile of suspect accused of killing Delphi teens

Garrett (the post above) seems altogether more sensible and direct. Perhaps all the "tips" are distracting them as they did in the Yorkshire Ripper hunt.

 

[Boxer]

Yes I agree. This quote was from only weeks later, March 8, 2017. It’s sort of interesting to reflect on because more than two years later, LE has still not ruled out a local person and we know nothing conclusive regarding DNA. I think many of LE statements are intentionally framed with a high level of confidence whether it’s warranted or not. We can only hope the continued awareness brings that one tip or evidence required to crack the case.

“Indiana State Police superintendent Doug Carter says they have several pieces and parts but they are looking for the one piece of evidence that will crack the case.

“I know that we have the human element – we have a very solid science element,” he said. “We are using every capable process that we have from a scientific perspective as everyone would expect us to, and we will continue to do that until there is nothing left to do. does that include DNA? It does. We have not ruled out the possibility that it is a local person. Every time we clear somebody it gets us closer. We are confident that somewhere in the tips we have valuable information and every time we can eliminate one we can move on to the next.”...”
FBI putting together profile of suspect accused of killing Delphi teens

MOO on 4/23/2019 the follow up interviews with Leazenby suggested they were down to a couple of dozen. I take this to mean around 24 that have not been cleared.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I wonder, if the killer likes to have memorial parks/ball parks/"Angle's parks"/trails named after his victims. Is THAT maybe a trophy for him? Imagine, he would have a list with renamed parks/trails or newly founded parks/trails and would bask in it ...

 

[Krwiley60]

Amber alert rules are different state to state.
I just looked at the Indiana criteria, and you are right, an Amber Alert could have been called.
IIRC somewhere in a video interview somewhere, Leazenby requested an Amber Alert from the state but was denied due to lack of information.

Amber Alert: Amber Plan

There still has to be reasonable belief that an abduction had occurred.

 

[Jax49]

Amber alert rules are different state to state.
I just looked at the Indiana criteria, and you are right, an Amber Alert could have been called.
IIRC somewhere in a video interview somewhere, Leazenby requested an Amber Alert from the state but was denied due to lack of information.

Amber Alert: Amber Plan

Why no AMBER Alert for missing Delphi teens?

Late Monday night, the Carroll County Sheriff's Office says they tried to request an alert for 13-year-olds Abby Williams and Libby German, who were last seen around 1 p.m. on a hiking trail near Delphi. Their request was turned down by Indiana State Police.

bbm

 

[Justice101]

JUSTICE101101 bbm, ??? Would you share what your impressions are of the voice, "Guys" "Down the hill" recording. Does it sound like an 18-19 year old, 20-30 year old or older? Another thought...do you think women and men hear voices differently? I know in Europe & England, you can almost narrow down the town a person comes from because of dialect and intonations.

I don't think I can do it without seeing a face. That is, describe the person that belongs to the voice. Imagine how many times you talk to a client or customer over the phone.. then 5 years later, you meet them.. and they always look completely different than you imagined.

All I can say is it is a biologically born male. Gruffly 40 year old voice. Probably from the country and/or small town in the area. < This is probably what the police came up with 10 minutes into the discovery of the photo and audio. Nothing earth shaking.

Wish I could help more but IF I had a video of the guy mouthing his talk... and IF there was an audio clip.. I could maybe match the two.

Not much help here.

 

[Krwiley60]

Why no AMBER Alert for missing Delphi teens?



bbm

Quote from amberalert.gov:

For an AMBER Alert to be effective in recovering a missing child, the law enforcement agency must have enough information to believe that an immediate broadcast to the public will enhance the efforts of law enforcement to locate the child and apprehend the suspect. This element requires as much descriptive information as possible about the abducted child and the abduction, as well as descriptive information about the suspect and the suspect’s vehicle. Issuing alerts in the absence of significant information that an abduction has occurred could lead to abuse of the system and ultimately weaken its effectiveness.

 

[NameUser]

Any Reason why we keep harping and harping on the Amber alert?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Quote from amberalert.gov:

For an AMBER Alert to be effective in recovering a missing child, the law enforcement agency must have enough information to believe that an immediate broadcast to the public will enhance the efforts of law enforcement to locate the child and apprehend the suspect. This element requires as much descriptive information as possible about the abducted child and the abduction, as well as descriptive information about the suspect and the suspect’s vehicle. Issuing alerts in the absence of significant information that an abduction has occurred could lead to abuse of the system and ultimately weaken its effectiveness.

This is not an arbitrary system. I wish people could understand the very clear and precise guidelines.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Any Reason why we keep harping and harping on the Amber alert?

Yes. It stops everyone talking about DNA for a limited time.

It's like the Dramatic convention of Comic Relief.

 

[NameUser]

Yes. It stops everyone talking about DNA for a limited time.

It's like the Dramatic convention of Comic Relief.

This ^^

This is very good!

 

[tresir2012]

MOO on 4/23/2019 the follow up interviews with Leazenby suggested they were down to a couple of dozen. I take this to mean around 24 that have not been cleared.

Have you got a link to the Leazenby interview where he quotes that, I've missed it. Is it in the media thread?

(eta it is not in the media thread, i just looked so when we find it we need to add it)

 

[tresir2012]

Any Reason why we keep harping and harping on the Amber alert?

Probably because I brought it up, but I haven't mentioned it for at least an hour now. **
Its now been fully clarified that CaCo requested it and it was the state that denied it. That decision must weigh heavy on Carter IMO.

** actually I haven't mentioned it for 3 hrs, in fact.