Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[ACE422]

I recall the date of all prior press conferences have been announced in advance. I think that’s so the media and public can attend and the media is able to report on it. One of the reasons I remember is there’s always a lot of speculation here including hope of an announcement of an arrest.

Did they speak directly to the killer, who ”may be in this room” during any other PC?
This PC seemed to be advertised more beforehand and just “different” overall... MOO

 

[ACE422]

Amber alert rules are different state to state.
I just looked at the Indiana criteria, and you are right, an Amber Alert could have been called.
IIRC somewhere in a video interview somewhere, Leazenby requested an Amber Alert from the state but was denied due to lack of information.

Amber Alert: Amber Plan

Unfortunately, even if an Amber Alert was called, it likely would not have saved these two young girls... it would already have been too late.
The focus now has to be on current leads to catch the murderer.

 

[PaulaDC]

This ^^

This is very good!

Or the use of "guys".

 

[BNA]

Did they speak directly to the killer, who ”may be in this room” during any other PC?
This PC seemed to be advertised more beforehand and just “different” overall... MOO

For me, what was different about it was that it wasn't filled with LE, even tho there was all that advance notice. I don't understand why there was not at least one person from the district attorney or states attorney or US attorney office on hand. That just absolutely baffles me.

 

[ACE422]

For me, what was different about it was that it wasn't filled with LE, even tho there was all that advance notice. I don't understand that there was not at least one person from the district attorney or states attorney or US attorney office on hand. That just absolutely baffles me.

I would be curious about possible footage they recorded of the crowd during that press conference. With the very limited additional details they released, it just seemed like they were more interested in the response from community members...especially potential suspects or those close to potential suspects. MOO

The thought that the suspect, when found, would bear a resemblance somewhere between the two sketches leads me to believe one of two things:

1. The suspect changed his appearance (he could have been dressed “incognito” while filmed immediately prior to the attack or he possibly lost weight and cleaned up his appearance to look “younger” after the first sketch was released).

Or

2. The 1st sketch is an older relative of the person in the 2nd sketch.

Look at key features that remain the same in both images .

I am sure this last PC was highly scripted by the FBI with intent to strike the nerve of the killer and/or those close to him who may suspect him. MOO

 

[on the case]

I’ve always leaned toward BG knowing the girls in some fashion as opposed to a random attack in wrong place/wrong time. And various reasons for my leaning that way. But I totally agree that the girls could have not immediately recognized him- but then could have once he was closer and spoke to them. As we’ve discussed, he looks well-covered and “incognito” of sorts.

The supposed comments that the girls made on tape about some guy could be all manner of things, but even IF they found this guy concerning, or creepy, it does not preclude the possibility that they just did not recognize him yet.

MOO.

"Recognize him yet" could be the key.

 

[Cryptic]

I almost typed it *had* to be the suspect was familiar with the layout of the land before taking a step back, adjusting, and it *could* have been he was familiar with the land around the bridge. Not sure that helps with the odds he was, but I would place it as likely BG understood the trails and bridge. JMO.

I would go with very likely that he "had" to be familiar.

The perpetrator felt comfortable on the bridge, and knew the creek was shallow. Likewise, he could well have known that there was a shortcut footpath behind the cemetery as well as about other ways to leave the area by skirting wood lines, cutting across fields etc. (I believe a witness described sighting him moving "overland" and a car that the police are interested in was parked a relative distance from the bridge).

Though it is technically possible that the crime was committed by a person "winging it" and able to quickly orientate himself in an unfamiliar area while presumably under stress, the totality suggests familiarity. The "'had to be familiar" possibility is further increased by the fact that nearly all human predators operate in areas where they feel comfortable. Familiarity brings the that comfort level.

 

[Cryptic]

I find myself thinking it easily likely that one of the girls (or both, as it is sadly quite common, IMO) may have been victims of similar abuse and this killing took place to silence them so the abuser would not be found out! They WERE getting older and wiser, I'm sure. This just always seems the most likely explanation as regards motive, to me. Thoughts?

I am thinking that one of victims being a direct victim of sex abuse by the perpetrator is unlikely. The police could well have screened family members who would not need to use electronic means to communicate with victim and come up empty. Likewise, probably very exhaustive searches of the electronic communication of the girls with strange individuals has also come up empty.

I do, however, think that it is more likely that the girls could of had knowledge of an ongoing sex crime involving the perpetrator and another person could have been murdered to keep it a secret. As the girls direct contacts seem to have been exhausted, I am thinking that a targeted scenario would more likely involve the perpetrator targeting them for indirect reasons (knowledge of a secret (sex abuse, an affair, another crime etc), imputed taking sides in a dispute between the perpetrator and another person etc.)

 

[tresir2012]

I am still interested in Kik. Does anyone have access to Kik and is it possible to access Libby's Kik records at all? Would LE have been able to do that?
In Ireland you have to be over 16 to even use Kik. Does the US or individual states have any such restrictions?

 

[Handsome Sailor]

Why all the speculation about knowledge of sex crimes? Why are some impugning the good names of the victims' families?

 

[rainwaterstill]

Yep. We have to hope LE has matters under control.

We will never approach anything like a consensus solution here, given that there are just too many things that we are not allowed to discuss frankly, frankly.

And then, when an arrest is made, some folks will be able to say: "See. That is what I was trying to tell you."

It does not matter a bit to me if I am one of those folks. I just want this guy out of my head.

Of course, I doubt he will be out of my head....as we will move on to watching from afar as he and his enablers try to muddy the waters during pre-trial, trial, and so forth.

It is a sure bet that the defense attorney will ask for a change of venue.

 

[Cryptic]

Why all the speculation about knowledge of sex crimes? Why are some impugning the good names of the victims' families?

Nobody is impugning anybody's character. In fact, I stated that such a motive would probably not stem from a family member and also stated that I dont think Abby or Libby were previously victimized.. In the end, however, there are two general motives for the crime: 1.) targeted 2.) "random" attack- on victims determined to be convenient

The targeted motive could be based on any number of broad themes including personal revenge and fear that the victim would disclosure a secret that could lead to arrest, shame or other negative concequences for the perpetrator,

Knowledge of an ongoing sex crime by the victim would include the themes of public shaming, fear of arrest and fear of losing the relationship with the victim for the perpetrator. The fact that such a possibility includes three motivation themes, however, does not mean that it is the actual motive and there are no indications that it is. Rather, it is simply a stronger motive possibility than others.

 

[Imvp2]

Interesting you mention this! A few weeks back I had to call due to my bank card being rejected (turns out it was too old and worn out ). Couldn't remember the password I'd used as it had been so long since calling in for anything. The guy a the other end said, "No worries, you've already been verified to this account by your voice!" I was dumbfounded. First time I'd come across that. Sooooo, I have a voice I'd like to compare to BG! I'm sure we all do

this is interesting, but as it applies to this case, I would be super interested if LE was to use the technology enabling them to make a sketch of the physical appearance of the BG from his voice. Perhaps that's why the second drawing came out. The "voice sketch" may have been remarkably close to what the composite sketch of the New BG, (from an eyewitness) looked like.
The new sketch may be spot on. BG may have been wearing a disguise of sorts.

 

[BNA]

It is a sure bet that the defense attorney will ask for a change of venue.

Yeah. I guess that would be standard. Depends on the strength of the evidence.

However, we may have a perp who would have no trouble at all getting a "fair" jury anywhere in Indiana, simply because nobody is going to believe that he did it.....because of who he is. JMO. We shall see.

And, the fact that so much time has gone by may give us plenty of skeptics as well.

 

[tresir2012]

Why all the speculation about knowledge of sex crimes? Why are some impugning the good names of the victims' families?

They are not doing that but speculating on a motive for the murder only. Also, KG had written about this subject and CP had addressed it as "rap lyrics" so it has been brought up already.

 

[BNA]

Nobody is impugning anybody's character. In fact, I stated that such a motive would probably not stem from a family member and also stated that I dont think Abby or Libby were previously victimized.. In the end, however, there are two general motives for the crime: 1.) targeted 2.) "random" attack- on victims determined to be convenient

The targeted motive could be based on any number of broad themes including personal revenge and fear that the victim would disclosure a secret that could lead to arrest, shame or other negative concequences for the perpetrator,

Knowledge of an ongoing sex crime by the victim would include the themes of public shaming, fear of arrest and fear of losing the relationship with the victim for the perpetrator. The fact that such a possibility includes three motivation themes, however, does not mean that it is the actual motive and there are no indications that it is. Rather, it is simply a stronger motive possibility than others.

To me, sex crimes include the exchange (the sending of) of images, and that would make your theory more plausible. JMO. I am not sure if that is where you are going with this or not.

 

[BNA]

this is interesting, but as it applies to this case, I would be super interested if LE was to use the technology enabling them to make a sketch of the physical appearance of the BG from his voice. Perhaps that's why the second drawing came out. The "voice sketch" may have been remarkably close to what the composite sketch of the New BG, (from an eyewitness) looked like.
The new sketch may be spot on. BG may have been wearing a disguise of sorts.

It seems entirely possible to me that LE has already done some voice comparisons, and that they have a hit.

I say that because my untrained/unenhanced ears do have a hit.

 

[Cryptic]

To me, sex crimes include the exchange of images, and that would make your theory more plausible. JMO. I am not sure if that is where you are going with this or not.

I am only sating that knowledge of sex crimes would make a stronger motivation for the murders than say, most other personal revenge possibilities. There is nothing, however, that would make this motive more or less likely.

 

[tresir2012]

Are all of the Renner interviews able to be discussed on here, does anyone know? I know some have been but am not sure. He did about 10 interviews altogether. I have seen the Kelsie ones discussed, and the Sheriff one but wondered if the others can be linked and discussed too, specifically the one with Abbey's mum.

ETA self reported to ask the question.

 

[susiQ]

Good morning!
I see we're back to the "rap lyrics" MOO but I doubt they are lyrics. However, I in no way believe either of those two, who shall remain "unnamed", had anything to do with it. OTOH it's not much of a character reference