Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

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susiQ said:
Well, I believe Snapchat figured into this crime. LG was known to use this app. It is difficult if not impossible to trace those communications as they disappear. I believe LG perhaps communicated with the killer or the killer knew through her Snapchat posts that she would be at the bridge that afternoon sometime.

I'm going to post a video from Youtube about Snapchat. I haven't heard back from a mod about it yet, but I feel it is pertinent in understanding that the age our children and my grandchildren are living in is a very dangerous one. It does not involve this case but it is also not off topic given the situation that may have come about. I found it rather scary. If not allowed, sorry, Mods please remove.


ed:gr
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Kids are naive and too trusting, adults even take risks like this...it's possible they were in contact with someone on TikTok, Snapchat.
 
Cutiekitty said:
I got the impression BP meant find my iPhone or an app like that. She mentioned something about trying to get AT&T to track the phone during this part of the interview too.
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I tend to agree with this. Reset or even re-setup the apps. If it was a factory reset, she would need to reinstall the apps she wanted to use again.

On a separate note, I know there was mention of the cell phone Pinging off of different towers. Does anyone have experience requesting the ping of a cell phone from the carrier? Is it as easy as calling and providing credentials? I also wonder how often the pings are transmitted that the carrier could report or relay.

For the record I believe the phone never left the area.
 
If the rumors of drug problems (meth) in patches of the areas surrounding Delphi are true, it could throw a spin on things.

1. The murders have been committed by a drug user whose moral compass and entire personality was negatively affected by meth, precipitating this atrocious double murder. Meth can truly turn someone psychotic and it is scary as hell.

2. The murders could have been a drug related , ruthless retaliation or message....something the girls may never have been a part of, but perhaps someone close to them was involved. Bad drug deals often end up affecting innocent people.

3. If violence is the method used to control people in the drug world, that culture would certainly impact the willingness of witnesses to come forward with info.

IMO, any of these would be a possibility if those rumors are true.

It sounds like the bridge/trail area would be a relatively secluded area to conduct criminal activity at, so if true, there may have been shady characters familiar with the area via their other dirty deeds.
 
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ACE422 said:
If the rumors of drug problems (meth) in patches of the areas surrounding Delphi are true, it could throw a spin on things.

1. The murders have been committed by a drug user whose moral compass and entire personality was negatively affected by meth, precipitating this atrocious double murder. Meth can truly turn someone psychotic and it is scary as hell.

2. The murders could have been a drug related , ruthless retaliation or message....something the girls may never have been a part of, but perhaps someone close to them was involved. Bad drug deals often end up affecting innocent people.

3. If violence is the method used to control people in the drug world, that culture would certainly impact the willingness of witnesses to come forward with info.

IMO, any of these would be a possibility if those rumors are true.
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There's nothing "rumor" about it. Just google Delphi (or Carroll County) and meth and it's easily documented. It may not be Boone County, WV but there's a notable problem. I'm really glad I don't see the appeal of it, personally.
 
ACE422 said:
If the rumors of drug problems (meth) in patches of the areas surrounding Delphi are true, it could throw a spin on things.

1. The murders have been committed by a drug user whose moral compass and entire personality was negatively affected by meth, precipitating this atrocious double murder. Meth can truly turn someone psychotic and it is scary as hell.

2. The murders could have been a drug related , ruthless retaliation or message....something the girls may never have been a part of, but perhaps someone close to them was involved. Bad drug deals often end up affecting innocent people.
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Well said. In the case of a targeted scenario (real or perceived knowledge of drug activity in this case), I think two aspects need to be explored:

1 - Were the murders connected to a scheduled meeting of any kind and for any motivation?
2 - Were the murders the result of the murderer stalking the victim and waiting for the "right" opportunity?

Of these two broad general possibilities, I think option '1' is far more likely as it is far less logistically complicated, allows the attacker to fully prepare, and allows the attacker to chose the time and the place. If option '1' is then explored- how was the meeting arranged? Via social media that "erases" itself (not a techno person) and cannot be traced? Or, via word of mouth? Is there social media that self erases?

I know that terrorists use / used the simple trick of giving both people access to an email account. They then enter conversation messages and "save to draft". This is harder to trace as nothing leaves the account. My guess is that a local meth dealer with narco fantasies and techno aptitude could be pretty sophisticated using social media with out traces.

I would dare say that NSA needs to be contacted if the investigators think that it was an arranged meeting and that the perpetrator techno adept. I believe they have offered quiet assistance in other high profile cases in the areas of phone tracing and cryptographic analysis.
 
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Cryptic said:
Well said. In the case of a targeted scenario (real or perceived knowledge of drug activity in this case), I think two aspects need to be explored:

1 - Were the murders connected to a scheduled meeting of any kind and for any motivation?
2 - Were the murders the result of the murderer stalking the victim and waiting for the "right" opportunity?

Of these two broad general possibilities, I think option '1' is far more likely as it is far less logistically complicated, allows the attacker to fully prepare, and allows the attacker to chose the time and the place. If option '1' is then explored- how was the meeting arranged? Via social media that "erases" itself (not a techno person) and cannot be traced? Or, via word of mouth? Is there social media that self erases?

I know that terrorists use / used the simple trick of giving both people access to an email account. They then enter conversation messages and "save to draft". This is harder to trace as nothing leaves the account. My guess is that a local meth dealer with narco fantasies and techno aptitude could be pretty sophisticated using social media with out traces.

I would dare say that NSA needs to be contacted if the investigators think that it was an arranged meeting and that the perpetrator techno adept. I believe they have offered quiet assistance in other high profile cases in the areas of phone tracing and cryptographic analysis.
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I'll take "Door #1" :) It would appear from what family has said, that LG couldn't be sure of exactly when she could get there as she needed a ride. So it may have been a bit "up in the air" until KG confirmed she would take the girls. I wonder when exactly KG agreed to drive her there. If the car LE are asking about is indeed part of this crime it would explain him showing up at 12 noon to get ready for whenever the girls arrived. Perhaps LG sent a Snapchat as soon as she knew they had a ride.

Had everything not lined up that day, would he have abandoned the plan and waited for a better opportunity? I would think so. If LG did not know what the perp looked like he could have just walked by like any other hiker, LG no the wiser.

With respect to motivation, on the one hand there was possibly motivation to meet an older boy in secret and the other to kill but the why part of that is harder to nail down.
 
tresir2012 said:
They are not doing that but speculating on a motive for the murder only. Also, KG had written about this subject and CP had addressed it as "rap lyrics" so it has been brought up already.
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For a graded school project. She wrote a dramatic/emotional story based on a friend's experiences (with her permission). It had nothing to do with Libby or the case. This was cleared up in the recent debunking video, I believe.
 
JMO and thinking out loud....

I just can't get past him not taking Libby's phone if the meeting had been set up via any sort of online platform or if had her seen her S.C.

He would know she would have her phone with her and he would know to take it.

Unless we go back (again) to the idea that he crushed/broke her phone and that all data thus far has been retrieved from a Cloud. But then....there is nothing LE has said to back this theory up.

This case has my mind endlessly spinning in circles.

I keep hoping so hard every single day for an arrest!
 
Han said:
If this case is ever solved how will it be announced? Will there be a press conference? Is there anyone here who will get the news before the official release?
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My guess would be we would here chatter on social media, then news reports that something is happening like an arrest but unconfirmed it’s related. Then a presser to confirm. At least that’s what seems to normally happen.
 
Cryptic said:
I keep reading references to Snap Chat. Are past Snap Chat exchanges traceable? Or, are they effectively not traceable even with FBI level resources?
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My understanding is they disappear and are not traceable. If someone knows better, please enlighten us :) What I do know from a younger friend who is a department head at a Highschool is that everyone should take the time to read the terms and conditions of the apps they or their children are using. Most kids wouldn't. She's required to do so as part of her job. She recommends against using Snapchat or letting your children use it. Of course, that gets increasingly harder as they get older.
ed:sp
 
ZoriahNZ said:
For a graded school project. She wrote a dramatic/emotional story based on a friend's experiences (with her permission). It had nothing to do with Libby or the case. This was cleared up in the recent debunking video, I believe.
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You need to read and understand the context of the post I was answering. The subject was sex abuse/underage sex and I wasn't talking about Libby at all.

Original post:
↑
"Why all the speculation about knowledge of sex crimes? Why are some impugning the good names of the victims' families?"

My answer:

"They are not doing that but speculating on a motive for the murder only. Also, KG had written about this subject and CP had addressed it as "rap lyrics" so it has been brought up already."
 
susiQ said:
My understanding is they disappear and are not traceable. If someone knows better, please enlighten us :) What I do know from a younger friend who is a department head at a Highschool is that everyone should take the time to read the terms and conditions of the apps they or their children are using. Most kids wouldn't. She's required to do so as part of her job. She recommends against using Snapchat or letting your children use it. Of course, that gets increasingly harder as they get older.
ed:sp
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Well these are known as "the Snapchat murders" for a reason I guess.

MOO
 
susiQ said:
My understanding is they disappear and are not traceable. If someone knows better, please enlighten us :)

She recommends against using Snapchat or letting your children use it. Of course, that gets increasingly harder as they get older.
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Thanks for your best answer. If effectively untraceable social media is readily available via snap chat, then that could well explain how the review of the victims social media accounts has not produced results. Then factor in the possibility of the difficulty of the review being compounded if the perpetrator added "10 minute inter net search" precautions to the mix

In regards to not using Snap Chat, I forbid originally in my house. Then, I gave up and went on trust. I figured that if my teen age son really wanted to, he could easily use the phone to communicate in a dozen hidden ways besides Snap Chat that I have never heard of.
 
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susiQ said:
It would appear from what family has said, that LG couldn't be sure of exactly when she could get there as she needed a ride.
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Come to think of it, I think both victims lived close to the nature center and could have easily walked. The fact that they wanted a ride could support the possibility that the victims were not that outdoorsy and were not inclined to spend several hours communing with nature- unless they had a pre-arranged meeting.
 
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