CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #8

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unless she was possessed, tripping on drugs, completely delusional or running in terror, she would have found the road imo. theoretically you are right, but she was not walking blindfolded with earplugs in. yes, they were in the middle of the desert, but they were still very near a road.

eg... if you live near a coast it is quite easy to orient yourself based on where the coast is. if you are in relative flatlands, within a few miles of a road, and agile enough to reach high ground/climb boulders (which 69 yo barb was), you can find your way back to the road.

i say this, because i also have been out in this and other deserts. and other wilderness areas. some places aren't easy to get lost, even for directionally impaired ppl. this was one of those areas, based on sroad's descriptions and photos, available in media thread, combined with roberts first-hand description of the area and recounting of events.... Barbara did not wander the wrong way by accident.

sixth or seventh time i've felt the need to say so, and i say so quite firmly.

sure, it is possible. but IMO this is not a believeable scenario. Even less believeable to me than random abduction.
I agree completely.

It’s for that reason in particular, that I believe a crime was committed here.

In most situations like this, I would think the exact opposite. But this situation isn’t like most:

The nature of the terrain.

The nature of their activity (walk, not hike).

The road and RV being markers.

The extensive search, and nothing found.
 
I wonder if RT while he was looking for BT and/or waiting for LE, encountered anyone else hiking in the area or flagged down any passing cars to ask if they had seen Barb.

@dbdb11 did RT mention doing anything like that?
he only mentioned being upset police hadn't immediately followed up with the cars in the 360 pic from the hill. i have no idea if police ever looked into that and they have not confirmed or denied ever having seen a 360 pic from a hill.
 
I must ask this of the VI.
BT is a extremely photogenic.
Were there any concerns that she was ill by any family ?
She does not look well in the later photos.
we had no reason to believe so. i personally believe she would not have told my family if she was ill, in order to keep from adding to our worries: she was scheduled to arrive in hk on the 23rd of july to visit her brother who was in hospital.

i do not believe she was ill, and saw her in may of 2018, and she did not say anything about being ill, nor did she show any signs of being ill. she did say, 'this is the longest i've been without robbie since we got married' i didn't think much of it...

she would have kept illness to herself unless it was life or death, imo.

i say that because generally bullens are stubborn like that...
 
They had a helicopter in Sheryl's case and did not find her at 2/1/2 miles out over 4 days searching.. She was alive and well with a barking dog.. Just saying.
They had a great SAR team for Barbara.
But you would have to have a lot of people along the road where the 5th wheel was parked separated by 6 foot and walk a straight line to where RT lost sight of her to find her IF she was past out or deceased in a shaded spot where she attempted to hide from heat sickness that turned worse. A helicopter stays high and is not near the ground and can't look under large rocks and bushes. Dogs work sometimes and miss sometimes.
It happens ..
Common sense says she is there and needs to be found..
 
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unless she was possessed, tripping on drugs, completely delusional or running in terror, she would have found the road imo. theoretically you are right, but she was not walking blindfolded with earplugs in. yes, they were in the middle of the desert, but they were still very near a road.

eg... if you live near a coast it is quite easy to orient yourself based on where the coast is. if you are in relative flatlands, within a few miles of a road, and agile enough to reach high ground/climb boulders (which 69 yo barb was), you can find your way back to the road.

i say this, because i also have been out in this and other deserts. and other wilderness areas. some places aren't easy to get lost, even for directionally impaired ppl. this was one of those areas, based on sroad's descriptions and photos, available in media thread, combined with roberts first-hand description of the area and recounting of events.... Barbara did not wander the wrong way by accident.

sixth or seventh time i've felt the need to say so, and i say so quite firmly.

sure, it is possible. but IMO this is not a believeable scenario. Even less believeable to me than random abduction.
We don't have any evidence what happened. We have a statement by RT that I am sure the police are checking with a fine toothed comb.

Car accident and a cover-up?, maybe. That could happen fast and wouldn't necessarily leave any trace. I think she could cross the road though. I give it a 1% chance.

Abduction? (staged or otherwise), seems pretty unlikely unless she flagged down someone when she was lost. Again, about 1% chance.

Homicide?, certainly possible and the SO is often to blame. I wouldn't be surprised. 30% leaning this way.

Got lost?, this is very common in all kinds of terrain. Most lost people are found only a mile or so from where they were last seen; after extensive searches. The rest of my bets are on lost.

I spent damn near an hour trying to get out of a corn maze once and we were 100 feet from a road. Finally cheated and walked through the rows.

My point is, in hindsight it always seems illogical when someone makes a fatal mistake; e.g. how could she have gone straight at that intersection when she should have seen the camper and gone left? Why didn't she hear the road, why did she mistake that rock formation over there for the correct one she just came from....
 
Not much. But people who wear clothing in the desert are less likely to get heat stroke and may slow down dehydration just a tad (because sweat on cloth does a kind of evaporative cooling thing; white cotton is really good, synthetics tend not to work as well in that environment).

The differences at higher temperatures (in terms of survival) are small though.

And as to Amboy Crater, I read that the black rock in those narrow, reflective, maze-like mini-canyons radiate heat to the point that it gets to 160F. No one survive that very long. It was something like 120F or more in the parking lot the day the Schmierers stepped out of the car, IIRC (I think they got there mid to late afternoon - people often think it will cool off after noon, but in the desert it really starts to warm up exponentially at noon, compared to morning, the peak temperatures are usually around 4 pm).

The walk to the actually crater is about a mile, maybe 1.5 miles. Even half a mile in that kind of heat (160F along parts of the trail??!?) would result in rapid impairment. A person would normally turn back almost immediately. I suspect they realized their predicament too late and he went for help after she collapsed. My oven's lowest temperature is 120F and frankly, that's too hot for me to touch comfortably much less be inside, I'd retreat immediately. But tourists are often determined. I've gone for a quick walk in 118F in the shade (in Death Valley, just had to put my feet on the ground at Badwater - maybe 10 minutes total). I was aware that I had to go back to the car even though I was very excited (heart rate was up, all of that) and wanted to stay longer.

The family hired Drone-up to find Mrs Schmierer:

https://dronelife.com/2018/09/12/th...up-search-and-rescue-mission-at-amboy-crater/

Great story linked! I hadn't seen that before. What stood out to me was
"What differentiates this case from the others is we didn’t know they were missing until a couple of weeks after they got here. If we had been out here sooner, our scent dogs would have been able to pick up on her scent, where they might have walked. Time is very critical.”

Their conventional tracking methods, like footprints and bloodhounds or leftover items, weren’t effective because of how long it had been and how quickly the environment would’ve destroyed that evidence. Within one week, for example, any footprint would be entirely erased and a person’s scent wouldn’t be detectable by bloodhounds."
From all accounts the search team and dogs were out at the site pretty quickly, by the next day it seems. Time was on their side and they did not find her. I truly don't believe she was ever out there.
 
Why go through the trouble of doing something like that?

It’s an unnecessary step to stage an abduction, especially in a location like that.

What would the goal be?

No witnesses to throw off. No evidence left behind to sell that story.

Pointless in every way.
to stage or to execute? when you say stage i think shakespeare.

the goal being... to make a spouse disappear?

why go to the trouble, indeed. more importantly, imo, why did she disappear when she did?

according to my interpretation of LE statements she has vanished without a trace, and they DO NOT believe she was abducted.

and they DO NOT plan to search for her anymore.

so... i wonder... wtf do LE think happened?

in your opinion it is an unnecessary step. but you might not have the means or will to outsource such a thing. you might not mind getting your hands dirty with a diy job... someone else might have different ideas and different resources than you. and it might make for a tighter alibi than 'she tripped and fell in that mine, i didn't push her' for example.

i have a powerful imagination, so narratives come easy.

in this case i dont need my imagination. (fully prepared for this to be deleted) i am talking about a professional lyer, a swindler, a lowlife scoundrel who would abandon his own daughter... his whole family thought he had mellowed with age and turned a new leaf. barb leveled him out apparently, and because of her they accepted him back into their homes. i don't blame the thomas's, and especially don't blame them for not digging through skeletons in the closet. but i will keep digging.

again, i appreciate all of your combined efforts, but i'm angry too. the thought that this case could go cold, or that it was executed 'perfectly'....

no. its not going to fade like that.
 
That may be true but in this case there is no evidence to suggest a fake abduction.
Usually in a situation like that the perp has left behind clues such as a staged crime scene or evidence pointing to another suspect.
If RT wanted LE to believe his wife had been abducted than why not leave her drinking cup or a boot along side the road? Imo
why fake an abduction when you can pull it off for real? i am not following this. you guys referring to witness protection or smthn?
 

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to stage or to execute? when you say stage i think shakespeare.

the goal being... to make a spouse disappear?

why go to the trouble, indeed. more importantly, imo, why did she disappear when she did?

according to my interpretation of LE statements she has vanished without a trace, and they DO NOT believe she was abducted.

and they DO NOT plan to search for her anymore.

so... i wonder... wtf do LE think happened?

in your opinion it is an unnecessary step. but you might not have the means or will to outsource such a thing. you might not mind getting your hands dirty with a diy job... someone else might have different ideas and different resources than you. and it might make for a tighter alibi than 'she tripped and fell in that mine, i didn't push her' for example.

i have a powerful imagination, so narratives come easy.

in this case i dont need my imagination. (fully prepared for this to be deleted) i am talking about a professional lyer, a swindler, a lowlife scoundrel who would abandon his own daughter... his whole family thought he had mellowed with age and turned a new leaf. barb leveled him out apparently, and because of her they accepted him back into their homes. i don't blame the thomas's, and especially don't blame them for not digging through skeletons in the closet. but i will keep digging.

again, i appreciate all of your combined efforts, but i'm angry too. the thought that this case could go cold, or that it was executed 'perfectly'....

no. its not going to fade like that.
“A leopard doesn’t change its spots.”
 
We don't have any evidence what happened. We have a statement by RT that I am sure the police are checking with a fine toothed comb.

Car accident and a cover-up?, maybe. That could happen fast and wouldn't necessarily leave any trace. I think she could cross the road though. I give it a 1% chance.

Abduction? (staged or otherwise), seems pretty unlikely unless she flagged down someone when she was lost. Again, about 1% chance.

Homicide?, certainly possible and the SO is often to blame. I wouldn't be surprised. 30% leaning this way.

Got lost?, this is very common in all kinds of terrain. Most lost people are found only a mile or so from where they were last seen; after extensive searches. The rest of my bets are on lost.

I spent damn near an hour trying to get out of a corn maze once and we were 100 feet from a road. Finally cheated and walked through the rows.

My point is, in hindsight it always seems illogical when someone makes a fatal mistake; e.g. how could she have gone straight at that intersection when she should have seen the camper and gone left? Why didn't she hear the road, why did she mistake that rock formation over there for the correct one she just came from....
not unless everything we have been told by the only witness is a lie, which is possible. i think he is telling a lot of truth though. including when he said they called him deceptive on the lie detector.

i am just saying, i do not believe barbara got lost at the end of their stroll. not at all.
 
why fake an abduction when you can pull it off for real? i am not following this. you guys referring to witness protection or smthn?

I’ll tell you what would change my mind on the “planned abduction” theory:

If there was unequivocal proof that Barb was actually there in the first place.

Then there would actually be some logic behind it.

“She was there. Here’s a photo. Now she’s gone.”
 
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to stage or to execute? when you say stage i think shakespeare.

the goal being... to make a spouse disappear?

why go to the trouble, indeed. more importantly, imo, why did she disappear when she did?

according to my interpretation of LE statements she has vanished without a trace, and they DO NOT believe she was abducted.

and they DO NOT plan to search for her anymore.

so... i wonder... wtf do LE think happened?

in your opinion it is an unnecessary step. but you might not have the means or will to outsource such a thing. you might not mind getting your hands dirty with a diy job... someone else might have different ideas and different resources than you. and it might make for a tighter alibi than 'she tripped and fell in that mine, i didn't push her' for example.

i have a powerful imagination, so narratives come easy.

in this case i dont need my imagination. (fully prepared for this to be deleted) i am talking about a professional lyer, a swindler, a lowlife scoundrel who would abandon his own daughter... his whole family thought he had mellowed with age and turned a new leaf. barb leveled him out apparently, and because of her they accepted him back into their homes. i don't blame the thomas's, and especially don't blame them for not digging through skeletons in the closet. but i will keep digging.


again, i appreciate all of your combined efforts, but i'm angry too. the thought that this case could go cold, or that it was executed 'perfectly'....

no. its not going to fade like that.

I appreciate your passion, but what would be the motive in this narrative? Insurance money?
 
not unless everything we have been told by the only witness is a lie, which is possible. i think he is telling a lot of truth though. including when he said they called him deceptive on the lie detector.

i am just saying, i do not believe barbara got lost at the end of their stroll. not at all.
I think we are going to ultimately find out and I hope it brings your family some peace.

The police are not accepting his words as fact, and are checking his story- as evidenced by their obtaining the video from the gas station. I bet they stopped at a few other gas stations and asked some questions at the phone company as well.
 
why fake an abduction when you can pull it off for real? i am not following this. you guys referring to witness protection or smthn?
I was responding to the suggestion of "faking" an abduction. Usually perps who do this leave some kind of evidence behind, or stage the scene to make it look like an abduction.

In the case of a real abduction, I guess LE looks at the timeframe in which the person disappeared and any evidence to suggest an abduction.

LE stated from the start they don't believe she was abducted, but we don't know what leads they have followed or if they have led to any evidence.

I don't know about witness protection, as we would not be given any information about that and it's only in rare circumstances where witnesses are placed in witness protection. I doubt that would come into play in this case. Imo
 
My point is, in hindsight it always seems illogical when someone makes a fatal mistake; e.g. how could she have gone straight at that intersection when she should have seen the camper and gone left? Why didn't she hear the road, why did she mistake that rock formation over there for the correct one she just came from....
If you consider that she might have walked off on her own, perhaps after an argument or tiff, with no immediate intention of going back to the RV, then getting lost seems more plausible.
 
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