Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[taximama24]

I, too, don’t know the technology of cooking meth, but if dope dealing carries a sentence, surely cooking meth in a public recreational place is not the best idea? And then someone sees it, and you kill them?

I get it but when I wrote that I was thinking the gun is probably just there for threats and for protection to people who carry and are involved in that business, not necessarily with the forethought to kill, but because dealers aren't exactly ideal decision makers or the best of humanity to begin with, I wouldn't presume their thought process on what would be justifiable escalation to murder would make much sense either.

Or maybe they saw something worse than just the making of it, maybe they saw someone using (who would then also not be in their right mind) who didn't want to be seen using (reputation, livelihood, etc) and he panicked...just guessing.

 

[JnRyan]

I know there has been a lot of discussion around familial DNA testing and people submitting and opting in for that, because there have been no hits in CODIS so far.

There is also a backlog of close to 5000 untested rape kits in Indiana alone (http://www.endthebacklog.org/indiana), never mind surrounding states and the rest of the country. I know we don't know whether SA was part of this crime, but it's safe to say that there's a solid possibility BG has committed some kind of SA at some point. What if his DNA is sitting in an untested rape kit somewhere, all the answers just in a box gathering dust? I feel there should really be a big push to start testing rape kits that are sitting on a shelf. So many times, untested rape kits are tested and solve other crimes when they hit on DNA that previously had no match.

A point I've made over and over here and in other cases. Case in point, when Memphis finally got around to testing old rape kits in 2005/6 they identified the rapist of a young girl in Memphis in 1997 as the murderer in a 1998 set of murders in MO and a 1990 murder in SC. And the 1997 rape case had a sketch of the suspect.
I've heard various excuses such as lack of funds, lack of personnel and even "the victim had no health insurance so who pays for the processing?" On top of that when some jurisdictions got funding to alleviate the backlog, they threw out the kits involving rapes that were older than the statute of limitations.
I agree. Just because this killer is not in CODIS doesn't mean there isn't a rape kit with his DNA in it. And that case may have a better sketch.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

A point I've made over and over here and in other cases. Case in point, when Memphis finally got around to testing old rape kits in 2005/6 they identified the rapist of a young girl in Memphis in 1997 as the murderer in a 1998 set of murders in MO and a 1990 murder in SC. And the 1997 rape case had a sketch of the suspect.
I've heard various excuses such as lack of funds, lack of personnel and even "the victim had no health insurance so who pays for the processing?" On top of that when some jurisdictions got funding to alleviate the backlog, they threw out the kits involving rapes that were older than the statute of limitations.
I agree. Just because this killer is not in CODIS doesn't mean there is a rape kit with his DNA in it. And that case may have a better sketch.

Back up for a second...rape kits that have been thrown OUT?? Why in the he** is there a statute of limitations on rape??? MOO

 

[JnRyan]

Back up for a second...rape kits that have been thrown OUT?? Why in the he** is there a statute of limitations on rape??? MOO

Many states have revised this. But the rapes committed by the Golden State Killer (the killer formerly known as the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker) had many of their kits thrown out because it was beyond the statute of limitations in place at the time of the rapes. Ten years? (Of course, many of these were tossed before DNA technology became available.) I don't remember as CA recently abolished them. NY used to have a 10 year statute of limitations. Florida still has a statute of limitations on sex crimes - 10 years for some and less for others. GA, HI, AR, ID and IL, as examples, still have them on sex crimes. And even IN for some sex crimes.
State by State Guide on Statutes of Limitations | RAINN

 

[zencompass]

Just because this killer is not in CODIS doesn't mean there isn't a rape kit with his DNA in it. And that case may have a better sketch.

Dear @JnRyan,

Brilliant post!

 

[Charlot123]

What it tells me is that the elected officials of Indiana don’t care to allocate a dollar for the personnel needed to work all of those untested rape kits.

it is issue of what evidence they process first. What takes precedence. Obviously, not rape. And -

it is the same everywhere.
Washington gets crucial funding to deal with thousands of untested rape kits.

And another question. Everyone remembers Anita Dookhan from MA who was less-than-diligent in processing toxicology samples. The LE has to be very careful with quality control.

Massive drug lab scandal results in 20,000 convictions dropped

“Lab scandals have undermined thousands of convictions in eight states in the past decade, according to data maintained by the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. “

Maybe with better DNA technology and quality control, the backlogged kits can be finally processed and no rapist can walk free, or claim a mistake was made. (The druggies in MA did, as the result of Dookhan, but it is less of an issue to me as compared to rapists).

 

[Boxer]

What it tells me is that the elected officials of Indiana don’t care to allocate a dollar for the personnel needed to work all of those untested rape kits.

The key to solving many crimes is in those those kits.

1.After burglary or robbery crimes many criminals rape to celebrate.
2. Rape is a violent crime murderers often launch from, from rape for rape/murder.
3. Rapists are also often torturing their family with molestation and abuse.

Maybe not testing is not just negligent, but has an element of lawmakers fear that family or themselves would get caught for old crimes.

Police should be clambering for the evidence in rape kits.

 

[Charlot123]

I get it but when I wrote that I was thinking the gun is probably just there for threats and for protection to people who carry and are involved in that business, not necessarily with the forethought to kill, but because dealers aren't exactly ideal decision makers or the best of humanity to begin with, I wouldn't presume their thought process on what would be justifiable escalation to murder would make much sense either.

Or maybe they saw something worse than just the making of it, maybe they saw someone using (who would then also not be in their right mind) who didn't want to be seen using (reputation, livelihood, etc) and he panicked...just guessing.

I can imagine Libby capturing shots of some activity she’d consider criminal, or curious, but I doubt it would be meth cooking or dope dealing. Unless someone was selling to minors. It is a possibility, always. Otherwise, probably not.

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> I am concerned that he is free now. Also, we don’t know how many people are non compliant with their meds, according to some data, up to 40%. And semi-compliance might be even worse at times.

Lastly, haven’t we seen people that take their meds plus use street drugs? And even high-potency THC may make some paranoid, but sadly, one can’t even imagine what people choose to get high on. The strangest stuff ever. And get exceptionally psychotic. So, a guy like this can’t be allowed to roam the streets.

But - he avoids being captured, so maybe he is not psychotic, merely cunning?

BTW. If they know who he is, and can’t prove beyond reasonable doubt, but he does have a mental illness, maybe long-term commitment could limit the risk? He can’t be in the community. He killed two teenagers.

 

[stattlich1]

In regards to the second observation, a lot of teenagers do stuff that their parents would never consent to.

Indeed, this is true. And it has been a lurking question in my mind, though it is a delicate path down which I've decided not to go on this forum.

A question that does come to mind is, how long would YOU consider no return text or call from an 8th grade daughter of YOURS to be appropriate before becoming alarmed?

I hope beyond all hope that LE nationwide, moving forward, understands the urgency of implementing search and rescue procedures early in a case, like, WAY before the next day. A good S&R team/dog could have potentially changed the entire outcome here.

I've heard the argument that people go missing every day, and yes, circumstances do at times dictate appropriate responses. Hind sight is clear. However, these girls were dropped off on a trail in the woods, in February, in Indiana, and failed to show up to meet for their pickup on time.

Think about it. 8th grade. Girls. NO REPLY via text, phone, or email for.....

1 hour
2 hours
3 hours
4 hours

How long you waitin'?

Every. Single. Person. YOU have contacted has not seen them.

5 hours
6 hours.......

Sad.

 

[Torch Carrier]

"We're NOT stopping." Why would he even need to say this at this point? Something is not right.

Also, "just...getting...started...." Well, the investigation is only a week old at that point, iirc. WTF. Already portraying it as a poor picture.

This little speech was absolutely loony.

My apologies BNA, just had my Dad's memorial service this past wkend and fell a bit behind in things here. Are you referring here to the early 2017 PC with the stage full of men or are you referring to the 4/22/19 PC?

 

[Boxer]

Indeed, this is true. And it has been a lurking question in my mind, though it is a delicate path down which I've decided not to go on this forum.

A question that does come to mind is, how long would YOU consider no return text or call from an 8th grade daughter of YOURS to be appropriate before becoming alarmed?

I hope beyond all hope that LE nationwide, moving forward, understands the urgency of implementing search and rescue procedures early in a case, like, WAY before the next day. A good S&R team/dog could have potentially changed the entire outcome here.

I've heard the argument that people go missing every day, and yes, circumstances do at times dictate appropriate responses. Hind sight is clear. However, these girls were dropped off on a trail in the woods, in February, in Indiana, and failed to show up to meet for their pickup on time.

Think about it. 8th grade. Girls. NO REPLY via text, phone, or email for.....

1 hour
2 hours
3 hours
4 hours

How long you waitin'?

Every. Single. Person. YOU have contacted has not seen them.

5 hours
6 hours.......

Sad.

I would freak when there was no answer, as DG did. Their whole support circle was out there within 90 minutes.

 

[Torch Carrier]

That sucks. Because transcripts dont do it justice imo. Gray Hughes, on his shows, has actually edited out DCs long awkward pauses to make him sound more competent when he speaks.

Pauses are oft intentional and of import IMO. GH may not appreciate that but I do.

 

[Torch Carrier]

Unfortunately I can't view videos for more than a few minutes (laptop gets overheating). So I can't follow like I would want to do.

I'll send ya some freakin' dough for a new laptop, if that's the case. Seriously. You deserve better for all you've contributed here!

 

[Torch Carrier]

Crazy thing is, they said darn near the same things at the April, 2019 presser....."We are just beginning. We are just now beginning, and I can tell you on behalf of The Sheriff and The Police Chief, and so many other partners that have stood with us over this period of time, that we will NOT stop!"

At that April presser, it is also stated that the voice recording is ONE persons voice, and IS the voice of the person ON THE BRIDGE....."the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking"

Now THAT is interesting, because.....somehow they KNOW it to be true. So the question for me is, HOW? How do they know without doubt that the person's voice on that cell phone is the person on the bridge?

Love your posts, Stat. Keep 'em comin!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'll send ya some freakin' dough for a new laptop, if that's the case. Seriously. You deserve better for all you've contributed here!

Hahaha, thank you!, but I don't need some "freakin' dough" (which I had to translate first )! I mention the problems to my fellow members, when I'm just again disappointed and when I'm not able to inform myself well. - Sometime I will get a new laptop, promised!

 

[sunshineray]

Back up for a second...rape kits that have been thrown OUT?? Why in the he** is there a statute of limitations on rape??? MOO

Because it's always been a man's world and rape has always been looked upon as just an assault that a body can recover from. In truth it's so much more devastating than just mere physical injuries and is a kind of murder. AJMO

 

[Falling Down]

A point I've made over and over here and in other cases. Case in point, when Memphis finally got around to testing old rape kits in 2005/6 they identified the rapist of a young girl in Memphis in 1997 as the murderer in a 1998 set of murders in MO and a 1990 murder in SC. And the 1997 rape case had a sketch of the suspect.
I've heard various excuses such as lack of funds, lack of personnel and even "the victim had no health insurance so who pays for the processing?" On top of that when some jurisdictions got funding to alleviate the backlog, they threw out the kits involving rapes that were older than the statute of limitations.
I agree. Just because this killer is not in CODIS doesn't mean there isn't a rape kit with his DNA in it. And that case may have a better sketch.

^^^^THIS

NY only recently gave people the chance to file suit over sexual abuses, there are various reasons why it wasn't allowed before August of this year. I think it's a one year window to file suit.

The Catholic Church fought against it like heck for years, other organizations did, too.

It's sad. Serial rapists who had raped and given probation or short sentences years ago are now being brought to justice over unsolved crimes, due to DNA tech being used to nab them. Thank our lucky stars.

 

[busymcmoody]

Indeed, this is true. And it has been a lurking question in my mind, though it is a delicate path down which I've decided not to go on this forum.

A question that does come to mind is, how long would YOU consider no return text or call from an 8th grade daughter of YOURS to be appropriate before becoming alarmed?

I hope beyond all hope that LE nationwide, moving forward, understands the urgency of implementing search and rescue procedures early in a case, like, WAY before the next day. A good S&R team/dog could have potentially changed the entire outcome here.

I've heard the argument that people go missing every day, and yes, circumstances do at times dictate appropriate responses. Hind sight is clear. However, these girls were dropped off on a trail in the woods, in February, in Indiana, and failed to show up to meet for their pickup on time.

Think about it. 8th grade. Girls. NO REPLY via text, phone, or email for.....

1 hour
2 hours
3 hours
4 hours

How long you waitin'?

Every. Single. Person. YOU have contacted has not seen them.

5 hours
6 hours.......

Sad.

One of the things that haunts me most about this case.
Question, they didn't search with dogs on the evening of the 13th when they were reported missing? If not, I don't get why. Even if Delphi doesn't have their own K9 unit, I'm sure Lafayette would have helped out.
How often do kids go missing in Delphi that they thought this one time the girls could have been runaways? Why is it less important when kids are runaways? Why is the first thought always that they are runaways, so many cases are unsolved because of LE not taking it seriously from the get-go.

 

[sunshineray]

My apologies BNA, just had my Dad's memorial service this past wkend and fell a bit behind in things here. Are you referring here to the early 2017 PC with the stage full of men or are you referring to the 4/22/19 PC?

I'm very sorry for your loss.