Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

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The Sun is a tabloid.
They mix reality with rumor.
MOO
A tabloid is allowed on WS??? Well, I’ll be taking any article from these tabloids with a grain of salt...JMHO
 
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If this is true, it makes me wonder if this killer took a photo as a 'souvenir'. If so, I also wonder how practical it is for LE to obtain phone numbers that pinged off the nearby towers between noon and 4:00 PM.

Yes -- great idea for LE to obtain nearby tower cell phone ping data specific to the day/time of the crime. Good thinking, @JnRyan! Might just be one of the last "puzzle pieces" in this case. Justice for Abby & Libby!
 
This article mentions side by side and possible decapitation, which has only been rumour before. He had to have either taken them there dead or alive and I understand it can be determined whether the bodies were brought there or moved within a certain number of hours to that location so I am still bearing it in mind as well as thinking about the Etter shed scenario. E.g. they could have gone to another location, brought back alive, like the Etter victim was, but then something went wrong and they were killed.
Speaking of sheds, I recall seeing an aerial shot of the woods in vicinity of crime scene and there was shed kind of out in the middle of the woods (not seeming to be closely connected to any other buildings or houses around there). Anyone else recall this lone building?
 
This article mentions side by side and possible decapitation, which has only been rumour before. He had to have either taken them there dead or alive and I understand it can be determined whether the bodies were brought there or moved within a certain number of hours to that location so I am still bearing it in mind as well as thinking about the Etter shed scenario. E.g. they could have gone to another location, brought back alive, like the Etter victim was, but then something went wrong and they were killed.

OK here is my thought.

I suspect that the crime scene bespoke the person’s madness. Sheer madness not explicable by any reason. Unless the person truly was on meth. I mentioned “Murder on the rue Morgue” for a reason, I think Lazenby was describing a horrible crime scene.

Why?

They needed to kill the girls as they were privy to a secret? Why do the rest, whatever it was (I don’t know exactly but I think something ugly).

BG wanted some sex thrill so he abducted the first ones? Like Ted Bundy? Usually it would look different, there would be SA and the lair won’t be so close, some necrophilia, but still, the assumed staging, is rare.

DC assumes the guy is religious. Nothing tells me he is religious, everything tells me he is mad as hell, but smart and lucky at this.

But since different posts hint at possibly someone from religious circles, I assume he is not cleared yet.

His gait and manners, chronic polyneuropathies , neuropathic gait and Guillan-Barre have been discussed here.


Yesterday, reading into history @ medicine, about general madness in European royal houses, I came across porphyria.

Here is one phrase from Wikipedia that stirred me up.

“Given the many presentations and the relatively low occurrence of porphyria, patients may initially be suspected to have other, unrelated conditions. For instance, the polyneuropathy of acute porphyria may be mistaken for Guillain–Barré syndrome, and porphyria testing is commonly recommended in those situations.”

So I am thinking, what if the perp suffers from a rare, periodic condition, and is unaware of it? Almost no one does testing for porphyria because it is extremely rare, and mainly, not easily caught, And unless you have someone who tells you about a family history of porphyria, you would never think of it, tbh.

It would look as periodic attacks of stomach pain. Or maybe periodic neurological symptoms. And psychiatric, psychotic symptoms that it can produce are very severe. But very sporadic.

Such a person might be totally normal between attacks.

Just something to think about. The LE thinks the perp has changed. He might be inter-episodes.
 
One LE officer has indicated there to be a twist to the murders unlike ever seen in his career.

I don't put much stock in that comment, due to situational framework. Leazenby said it in frustrated fashion during the late stages of an interview, after the interviewer emphasized that with the photo and audio he assumed it was a local, that he might even know the guy, and therefore the case probably would be solved within a couple of days. Leazenby sighed and said it was the same thought process they had as well. Then he expanded a little bit and his voice trailed off, and eventually he made the twist comment in sort of resigned fashion.

It can read entirely different in print. That's what I'm saying. In print a reference to twist can look like he's loudly emphasizing you guys don't know what you're talking about, this case has a curveball. But when you listen to the context it's clear that's not what Leazenby is saying. Twist is just beyond the 9 minute mark but listen from 8 minute mark for full context:


Otherwise, this video (below) freeze framed at the 2:34 mark is from a few weeks after the murders and gives a good indication of the area where the bodies were found. Crime scene tape is still up. You can see that the terrain on that side is considerably higher than creek level. That's why I didn't even bother a few weeks ago to try to figure out where the bodies might have been. You can't see much of anything from the creek. It is quickly elevated on the crime scene side but then flattens out and might even descend slightly. Certainly not theater slope.

Also given the flattened brush on the ground it doesn't look like it would be particularly difficult to drag bodies a short distance on top of that brush. That could have been all the relocating required, and not lifting and carrying 50 feet.

Definitely more water but fewer leaves in this March 2017 video, compared to my visit recently.

Freeze at late stage of 2:34 just before shift to 2:35, for best view of terrain in apparent crime scene area:

 
Perfect image of the area of the CS, with the "berm" as I call it, in the background.

rich-van-wyk-twitter-C4zPedmXUAAzn73.jpg
 
The problem is that people believe in what they think. They engage in what I call the possibility complex.

An example would be me writing a theory that suggest the killer is a skier from Wyoming who used a puppy to lure the girls. I think he was wearing ski shoes and had on a ski hat and certain enhancements I have seen online suggest he may have had a puppy in his coat. <--I do not actually believe this theory. It is just an example.

Then when people reply to either disagree or tell me I am wrong I can respond, "But it is a possibility. How can you suggest it is not a possibility?" To a certain extent on such a forum people will engage in these types of discussions because they do not have the same information to work with as LE. I have put out wild speculative theories too.

It is the same thing with the opinion of the law enforcement investigation. LE has not found the suspect so now we go out on a huge tangent to suggest they know who it is that killed Abby and Libby, but are waiting to make an arrest because they do not have enough evidence?

Huh? What?

But it is a possibility, although in my opinion, not a very good one.

And that is how the possibility complex goes. After enough time passes, all you are left with are the many different possibilities. And the case fades away unresolved.

Respectfully... if you read JonBenet Ramsey’s thread, you will probably see all kinds of possibilities. My personal feeling? One of the three family members killed JBR, and the police, awed in being invited to the locally famous millionaire’s house, totally dropped the ball.

But today, there may be tons of versions, all of them very far from the possibility. And people have the right to post them. As the case is as cold as Otzi in the Alps.

The Delphi case is rapidly going the JBR way. So attacking someone who is posting own theory - makes no sense. They are not to be blamed.

I have a feeling what this case needs, but I am not ready to post it yet.
 
why did they print the OLD sketch???? This article is from Sept 2019, long after the new sketch was published. This is rubbish.

Why have police not found man who teens filmed before their murder?

This is an article from Sept 2019. It mentions the girls being found side by side and covered in undergrowth.


"Their bodies were hidden in the undergrowth on a remote hiking trail near their hometown of Delphi, Indiana, in the American Midwest.



They had been placed alongside one another, and although police have not released any details of the cause of death, it was clear they had been murdered.

Abby and Libby’s deaths reverberated through the small town, because it was unlikely that anyone other than a local would have known about the track the girls were walking on that day."

I posted this on the last thread and also in the media thread on Nov 19th.

The fact they were side by side and covered in undergrowth indicates to me they were placed there after death. MOO.

ETA the article mentions there is a Twitter feed, a website and a Facebook set up by the Family. Are we allowed to post those links on here as they are for the victims?
 
why did they print the OLD sketch???? This article is from Sept 2019, long after the new sketch was published. This is rubbish.
I know! But in all fairness we've had ISP Carter saying killer could wind up being combination of the two sketches and Kelsei very recently saying pretty much the same thing...it's frustrating and I really wish LE would address this. If they think there was an accomplice involved in some way, whatever way, just say it already.
 
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Also, if you look at the one pic of girl walking on the bridge, you will notice clouds in the sky, contrary to the photo with BG, there are none. Maybe camera angle but to me, it may have been some time between pics. Obviously LE knows what the time sequence of pics are but I just noticed this.

These are the first two official still images released by LE. It's not the camera angle. It's because NASA zoomed in as much as possible to try and get a better view of him.

BG SP1.jpg BG SP2.jpg

In the video comprising 3 frames (on a loop in this video) you still don't see the sky. Notice the small round white spot next to the rail and behind his leg on the left-hand side of both the stills and video. This spot together with the forked trees and a platform on the right (not seen here) enables someone to place his location almost exactly. He was 60' from the end of the bridge.

 
As we don't know what evidence LE has, on what basis do you make this statement.

I'm not aware of anyone here suggesting that there was more than one killer, only that there may have been two people involved in the crime, the killer and perhaps someone who forced the girls down the hill and/or assisted him leaving the crime scene.
A second person who "forced the girls down the hill" would qualify as a second perp. Playing games with semantics doesn't change the fact that there's no evidence whatsoever for a second participant in the crime. Libby took a video showing a single perp with audio that LE has stated is the same perp shown in the video. LE has made it crystal clear that a single perp is being sought, so a reasonable person can infer that LE did not find evidence of a second perp at the crime scene.
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In asking whether a second perp is possible, you're asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is, "Is there any evidence of a second perp?" The answer to that question is,"No, there is not."
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You say that "we don't know what evidence LE has," but that isn't completely true. LE has shared enough information with the public for us to know that their current theory of the case does not involve a second perp. (Please don't respond by prattling on about ambiguous language used by LE two-and-a-half years ago, when the investigation was still brand new.)
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The evidence that we do have points clearly to second perp, and it is clear that LE has not found any evidence of a second perp.
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If you want to believe in the "possibility" of a spectral second perp even though there's absolutely no evidence that there was one and even though the evidence that we do have points overwhelmingly to a single perp, go right ahead.
 
Also, if you look at the one pic of girl walking on the bridge, you will notice clouds in the sky, contrary to the photo with BG, there are none. Maybe camera angle but to me, it may have been some time between pics. Obviously LE knows what the time sequence of pics are but I just noticed this.

it might have been the “editing” function. I don’t use SC, but in most picture editors, if you overedit, or use filters, you’d suddenly get clouds, or, for example, ultra-blue sky. The picture of Abby looked like it had been edited.
 
I think the “more evidence” on the video could be the weapon he pulled out to get them to comply. Something they wouldn’t want the public to see or know about.

I've thought that for a very long time. I get a bit carried away with some cases, the Pistorius trial in particular. If I get an opportunity to experiment I do so. In this case I measured out 60' along a flat paved area in my yard and walked with my head down to allow for looking for missing/broken ties and also took an occasional sidestep. I repeated the exercise 6 times and varied how I walked each time - sometimes slower, sometimes faster. My husband used a stopwatch and the average time was approx. 15 seconds.

We don't know exactly where Abby was but she was obviously somewhere between BG and the end of the bridge. We know that you could only do one 10 second Snapchat video in the first half of 2017, so IMO he definitely would have reached the end of the bridge and drawn a gun, if he had one, as he neared the end, followed by "Guys, down the hill".
 
The Sun is a tabloid.
They mix reality with rumor.
MOO
A tabloid is allowed on WS??? Well, I’ll be taking any article from these tabloids with a grain of salt...JMHO

On the one hand, their goal is just to sell, on the other, tabloids usually pay good money for the interviews, so they may have firsthand information, too.
 
A second person who "forced the girls down the hill" would qualify as a second perp. Playing games with semantics doesn't change the fact that there's no evidence whatsoever for a second participant in the crime. Libby took a video showing a single perp with audio that LE has stated is the same perp shown in the video. LE has made it crystal clear that a single perp is being sought, so a reasonable person can infer that LE did not find evidence of a second perp at the crime scene.
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In asking whether a second perp is possible, you're asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is, "Is there any evidence of a second perp?" The answer to that question is,"No, there is not."
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You say that "we don't know what evidence LE has," but that isn't completely true. LE has shared enough information with the public for us to know that their current theory of the case does not involve a second perp. (Please don't respond by prattling on about ambiguous language used by LE two-and-a-half years ago, when the investigation was still brand new.)
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The evidence that we do have points clearly to second perp, and it is clear that LE has not found any evidence of a second perp.
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If you want to believe in the "possibility" of a spectral second perp even though there's absolutely no evidence that there was one and even though the evidence that we do have points overwhelmingly to a single perp, go right ahead.

However, one of the possibilities is that the BG merely “herded” or “drove” (don’t know what would be the correct hunting term) the girls to the water, while the second person was waiting for them at that clearing, on the other side of the creek.

That could explain why no witness mentions a wet guy leaving the area. Nowhere, ever, did I see anything about people seeing anyone wet walking from the Monon bridge. To me, it indicates he was not.
 
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