Found Deceased OH - Harley Dilly, 14, walking to Port Clinton High School, 20 Dec 2019 #5

[katydid23]

Of course, but they didn’t even try. I’m not saying they should have broken the door down and ransacked the place. Just a nice little phone call asking “may we please enter your unoccupied residence to ensure a missing teen didn’t find his way in somehow and meet his demise” shouldn’t have been too much to ask.

I think you need to look at this in context of the overall search.

In the very first hours of the search, they had hundreds of locations to search. So when they first came upon that locked up home, they knocked, looked around for clues and then WENT ON TO THE NEXT HOME.

They would need to have a compelling reason to stop searching the neighbourhood in those first hours, and instead try and locate this family and get some way to get inside. Should they have done that with EVERY house that was locked up with no one home?

If you are searching for a 14 yr old, who is possibly a runaway, possibly abducted, you are in an urgent situation. You will have a lot of territory to cover as fast as possible. If there is not anything
to indicate that he was in or around a particular property, you cannot spend several hours trying to get a warrant or an out of state owner to allow you to enter. There are dozens of locked up properties within blocks of HD's home. Are they going to stop at every one and try and find the owners to help them enter a locked up house? I don't think that is even possible.

I think hindsight is 20/20, so everyone jumps on the Chief and calls him a failure, because they didn't get the keys to this home earlier. There are hundreds of homes they didn't get the keys to---were they supposed to enter ALL of them?

 

[Seattle1]

I read that, too. But I find that pretty hard to believe if the house was built in the 1800's. I wonder if the house has been in family forever.

Eta: especially since it has a brick chimney at the center of the house.

Yes it was -- the current owner cited his great (or great+) grandfather on his mother's side as the builder of the home in the late 1800's.

 

[Linda7NJ]

BBM

~snip
The rally started about 10 a.m. at the house, which is also near the Dilly youth’s family home. Protesters got in and out of their cars to warm up and rejuvenate themselves. They waved signs at people passing in cars and called out “Justice for Harley.”

“We aren’t here to hurt anyone or cause problems,” said protester Brittney Sanderfer, of Sandusky, who held a 9-by-13-inch frame to show the size of the chimney police say the Dilly youth entered sometime after he went missing on Dec. 20. “We are just here to get answers so we can have a community that is at ease, at peace.”

Nearby, Port Clinton Police Chief Rob Hickman sat in his vehicle. He declined to comment on the investigation, but said he was near the house Sunday to ensure things were peaceful.

“Their theory is we screwed up the investigation. People are entitled to their opinion but there is only so much we can say right now,” he said. “I feel the worst for the family right now; they aren’t allowed to grieve Harley.”

Chief Hickman confirmed that two people were arrested during the protest for trespassing onto the Fulton Street property during the event.

Port Clinton patrol officer Mike Wilburn also policed the scene. He disagreed with the group’s assessment that the chief and his investigators botched the investigation.

“I don’t think [Hickman] left any stone unturned,” he said.

People supporting the Dilly family and Port Clinton police also showed Sunday, holding up signs criticizing the protesters.

Live videos posted to the Facebook page for the Fisherman's Wharf bait and tackle shop in Port Clinton show a couple of individual counter-protesters holding signs. One man can be seen holding a crucifix and heard yelling at protesters across the street to "let him rest in peace," "please go home," and "leave his family alone."

~snip

More of the article and video at link:

House where Harley Dilly's body was found becomes stage for protests

So the police chief said, "there is only so much we can say RIGHT NOW." Hmmm, i wonder what he means by that. That he is waiting for the autopsy, or to learn more info himself, before he can share it? Aka: he doesn't have any info now to share. Or, that he does have other info now, but someone, or something is preventing him from sharing it now?

Until everything is finished, all reports are back, every I dotted, it’s considered an ongoing investigation

 

[mommadukes]

BBM

~snip
The rally started about 10 a.m. at the house, which is also near the Dilly youth’s family home. Protesters got in and out of their cars to warm up and rejuvenate themselves. They waved signs at people passing in cars and called out “Justice for Harley.”

“We aren’t here to hurt anyone or cause problems,” said protester Brittney Sanderfer, of Sandusky, who held a 9-by-13-inch frame to show the size of the chimney police say the Dilly youth entered sometime after he went missing on Dec. 20. “We are just here to get answers so we can have a community that is at ease, at peace.”

Nearby, Port Clinton Police Chief Rob Hickman sat in his vehicle. He declined to comment on the investigation, but said he was near the house Sunday to ensure things were peaceful.

“Their theory is we screwed up the investigation. People are entitled to their opinion but there is only so much we can say right now,” he said. “I feel the worst for the family right now; they aren’t allowed to grieve Harley.”

Chief Hickman confirmed that two people were arrested during the protest for trespassing onto the Fulton Street property during the event.

Port Clinton patrol officer Mike Wilburn also policed the scene. He disagreed with the group’s assessment that the chief and his investigators botched the investigation.

“I don’t think [Hickman] left any stone unturned,” he said.

People supporting the Dilly family and Port Clinton police also showed Sunday, holding up signs criticizing the protesters.

Live videos posted to the Facebook page for the Fisherman's Wharf bait and tackle shop in Port Clinton show a couple of individual counter-protesters holding signs. One man can be seen holding a crucifix and heard yelling at protesters across the street to "let him rest in peace," "please go home," and "leave his family alone."

~snip

More of the article and video at link:

House where Harley Dilly's body was found becomes stage for protests

If these wanna-be crusaders are so worried about getting “justice” for Harley, why hasn’t it occurred to them that the last thing he would want is for his family to see this nonsense? (Especially his 4 year old brother). Not to mention the fact that the best place to protest and express their dissatisfaction with the handling of this case would probably be outside of the police station???? MOO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Remember that even the pioneers would haul STOVES with them - much more efficient and easier to use than fireplaces. A lot of early houses had coal-burning stoves and "furnaces". The pot-bellied stoves and the coal furnaces were popular. The very elderly I have spoken with can remember walking along RR tracks gathering fallen chunks of coal to heat homes in the Depression. NOTE don't burn coal at home without knowing about coal and its need to be burned on a special grate.

Mooooooo

My last house was over 100 years old. The basement in the original part was made of stones, not cinder blocks. It had a huge shoot thing where coal was delivered outside and it would slide down and a holding area -again made out of stone to hold the coal. There was a capped vent in what had been the kitchen, for a stove - it was converted into a mud room before I bought it. There were also 3 working fireplaces that were later (I assume) converted to burn wood. One of the reasons I bought it was because I loved the fireplaces.

 

[unitsix]

I am still of the opinion that this was a death by misadventure.
So many people (myself also at first), cannot let go of the assumption there was or once had been fireplace(s) in the house. Well I have been in a lot of houses that have a chimney and never had a fireplace. The only use for these chimneys is to serve as a shaft to vent a furnace or a fuel burning stove.
I think if the LE touched on the following, it would clear up a lot of questions folks have. (I still have questions myself)

~A diagram of the chimney, Harley's position and the position in which his coat and glasses were discovered. Also, would he have slid further down the shaft after he lost consciousness? (This would likely clear up a lot of confusion and speculation) .

~Confirmation if fingerprints, DNA or other evidence was obtained from the antenna and chimney opening that indicates HD was alone. (If it wasn't obtained, why not? Was an attempt made?)

~Verification of what he was wearing when discovered and who saw him in those clothes last. (My eyes are admittedly old but I wouldn't recognize myself in that ccv).

~Clarification on the time his mom spoke with him and when he was caught on camera that morning. (Totally understandable if she was mistaken of the time for any number of reasons, but if it was a mistake, just be transparent about it.)

~Also, was it out of the ordinary for him to leave at the time he was on camera? Was this normal to leave that early?

~ Not sure if it was undetermined, but could they narrow down an approximate time of death?

~ And finally, why would LE hang his coat up like that? (I am certainly not an expert but feel that an investigation would mean stricter steps in preserving potential evidence. Not only that, but hanging it up there for the world to see just seemed rather strange to me.)

Sorry so long , just MMO.
They probably won't address these things but I feel these are questions that would convince folks one way or the other.

 

[TristanP]

What did they not do “right”?

They didn’t thoroughly check an unoccupied house within sight of the kid’s home? Until weeks later?

 

[MassGuy]

I think you need to look at this in context of the overall search.

In the very first hours of the search, they had hundreds of locations to search. So when they first came upon that locked up home, they knocked, looked around for clues and then WENT ON TO THE NEXT HOME.

They would need to have a compelling reason to stop searching the neighbourhood in those first hours, and instead try and locate this family and get some way to get inside. Should they have done that with EVERY house that was locked up with no one home?

If you are searching for a 14 yr old, who is possibly a runaway, possibly abducted, you are in an urgent situation. You will have a lot of territory to cover as fast as possible. If there is not anything
to indicate that he was in or around a particular property, you cannot spend several hours trying to get a warrant or an out of state owner to allow you to enter. There are dozens of locked up properties within blocks of HD's home. Are they going to stop at every one and try and find the owners to help them enter a locked up house? I don't think that is even possible.

I think hindsight is 20/20, so everyone jumps on the Chief and calls him a failure, because they didn't get the keys to this home earlier. There are hundreds of homes they didn't get the keys to---were they supposed to enter ALL of them?

When this news first broke, I was beside myself that they didn’t search an “abandoned” house.

Of course that wasn’t the case. The house was merely vacant, and LE had searched the perimeter, likely using search dogs. Had Harley been inside, he would have been spotted coming and going (a kid has to eat).

There were far more probable places in which to look, as I’m sure a dead body in a secure house was not on their minds.

He was dead in the woods, drowned in a body of water, or had potentially been kidnapped.

No one could have predicted that he’d be stuck inside a chimney. That sort of thing just does not happen with any regularity, especially under these circumstances.

 

[Seattle1]

~ And finally, why would LE hang his coat up like that? (I am certainly not an expert but feel that an investigation would mean stricter steps in preserving potential evidence. Not only that, but hanging it up there for the world to see just seemed rather strange to me.)

^^sbm
The coat determined to be HD's was not hung on the door on display for the world to see. It was being photographed by the investigator with a camera around her neck as seen through the window. I believe she had a job to do and used the best lighting which happened to be in view of the gawking news/cameras. MOO

 

[TristanP]

I think you need to look at this in context of the overall search.

In the very first hours of the search, they had hundreds of locations to search. So when they first came upon that locked up home, they knocked, looked around for clues and then WENT ON TO THE NEXT HOME.

They would need to have a compelling reason to stop searching the neighbourhood in those first hours, and instead try and locate this family and get some way to get inside. Should they have done that with EVERY house that was locked up with no one home?

If you are searching for a 14 yr old, who is possibly a runaway, possibly abducted, you are in an urgent situation. You will have a lot of territory to cover as fast as possible. If there is not anything
to indicate that he was in or around a particular property, you cannot spend several hours trying to get a warrant or an out of state owner to allow you to enter. There are dozens of locked up properties within blocks of HD's home. Are they going to stop at every one and try and find the owners to help them enter a locked up house? I don't think that is even possible.

I think hindsight is 20/20, so everyone jumps on the Chief and calls him a failure, because they didn't get the keys to this home earlier. There are hundreds of homes they didn't get the keys to---were they supposed to enter ALL of them?

Well, it doesn’t seem unreasonable to check all of them within sight of his home.

 

[unitsix]

^^sbm
The coat determined to be HD's was not hung on the door on display for the world to see. It was being photographed by the investigator with a camera around her neck as seen through the window. I believe she had a job to do and used the best lighting which happened to be in view of the gawking news/cameras. MOO

Understandable as I don't claim to be an expert but I guess I personally wished they had just covered the window and can't even explain why I feel that way. I guess because of all the media presence.

 

[TristanP]

^^sbm
The coat determined to be HD's was not hung on the door on display for the world to see. It was being photographed by the investigator with a camera around her neck as seen through the window. I believe she had a job to do and used the best lighting which happened to be in view of the gawking news/cameras. MOO

Isn’t it standard procedure to place items in an evidence bag, with as little handling as possible, and take them to a lab where the jacket can be laid out on a table and examined for evidence?

I personally believe this was just a tragic accident, but they had no way to be certain of that at that point. I’ve heard more than one person in law enforcement state that every death scene should be handled as a homicide scene until the evidence indicates otherwise.

 

[v0x]

Isn’t it standard procedure to place items in an evidence bag, with as little handling as possible, and take them to a lab where the jacket can be laid out on a table and examined for evidence?

I personally believe this was just a tragic accident, but they had no way to be certain of that at that point. I’ve heard more than one person in law enforcement state that every death scene should be handled as a homicide scene until the evidence indicates otherwise.

I would imagine the coat was photographed and documented where it was found by LE, then hung up by an officer wearing gloves for further photographs. Imo.

 

[unitsix]

Isn’t it standard procedure to place items in an evidence bag, with as little handling as possible, and take them to a lab where the jacket can be laid out on a table and examined for evidence?

I personally believe this was just a tragic accident, but they had no way to be certain of that at that point. I’ve heard more than one person in law enforcement state that every death scene should be handled as a homicide scene until the evidence indicates otherwise.

That was actually my original point about the jacket being hung up. However I don't really know the specifics of investigations.

 

[PKnopf]

I'm still really struggling with the timeline of the morning he went missing, having been allegedly seen on cctv with a timestamp of 6:08 am. The bell time for first class at the high school is 7:30 am. Allowing for the idea he may have been enrolled in the school breakfast program, I found a pdf brochure on the high school web site assigning it to 7-7:30 time slot for the high school. Google maps shows the school approx .6 mi away, approx a 12 minute walk. I'm sure that could have any number of variables, but close enough to presume he had anywhere from 30+ mins to a whole extra hour on his hands.

A freezing cold morning in the teens temps, out in the pitch dark, that early in the morning just looking for adventure as a head start to the day? I'm just not picturing it.

He lived across from that house 365 days of the year. And while it wasn't always vacant with renovators coming and going, it sounds like it was vacant a lot of the time. I'd bet there was a good chance he'd climbed that roof before. But why THAT morning of all mornings of his teen years was he so drawn to the actual chimney of that house? To actively decide to go in it? I don't have any sensible theories.

 

[MassGuy]

Isn’t it standard procedure to place items in an evidence bag, with as little handling as possible, and take them to a lab where the jacket can be laid out on a table and examined for evidence?

I personally believe this was just a tragic accident, but they had no way to be certain of that at that point. I’ve heard more than one person in law enforcement state that every death scene should be handled as a homicide scene until the evidence indicates otherwise.

I’m pretty sure they were sure of it immediately.

Had he been found dead on the floor or something, then I’m confident there would have been different protocols used.

These were trained professionals that weren’t limited to the police department. They have extensive experience with all sorts of death investigations.

We don’t even know what they did in there, or what the scene really looked like.

If anyone believes that someone murdered Harley, climbed an antenna while holding his body, dumped him down a chimney, and staged the scene (glasses and coat), then I’ve got a bridge for sale.

 

[Seattle1]

Isn’t it standard procedure to place items in an evidence bag, with as little handling as possible, and take them to a lab where the jacket can be laid out on a table and examined for evidence?

I personally believe this was just a tragic accident, but they had no way to be certain of that at that point. I’ve heard more than one person in law enforcement state that every death scene should be handled as a homicide scene until the evidence indicates otherwise.

I think it really depends on the circumstances. In this situation, the glasses and coat were said to be on the floor when investigators entered the home.

It seems to me this item (coat) was collected with gloved hands and photographed on the scene. I think investigators were being prudent here but had no reason to believe they were investigating a homicide-- before or after examining the down coat. MOO

 

[v0x]

I'm still really struggling with the timeline of the morning he went missing, having been allegedly seen on cctv with a timestamp of 6:08 am. The bell time for first class at the high school is 7:30 am. Allowing for the idea he may have been enrolled in the school breakfast program, I found a pdf brochure on the high school web site assigning it to 7-7:30 time slot for the high school. Google maps shows the school approx .6 mi away, approx a 12 minute walk. I'm sure that could have any number of variables, but close enough to presume he had anywhere from 30+ mins to a whole extra hour on his hands.

A freezing cold morning in the teens temps, out in the pitch dark, that early in the morning just looking for adventure as a head start to the day? I'm just not picturing it.

He lived across from that house 365 days of the year. And while it wasn't always vacant with renovators coming and going, it sounds like it was vacant a lot of the time. I'd bet there was a good chance he'd climbed that roof before. But why THAT morning of all mornings of his teen years was he so drawn to the actual chimney of that house? To actively decide to go in it? I don't have any sensible theories.

I can recall many dumb decisions I’d made at that age.

 

[Lilibet]

But why THAT morning of all mornings of his teen years was he so drawn to the actual chimney of that house? To actively decide to go in it? I don't have any sensible theories.

The only thing I can think of is that he saw movement/activity of some kind (bird, animal) up by the chimney and was curious. I assume because his jacket and glasses were found on the floor that he took them off before going into the chimney to perhaps see what was going on. But honestly, it’s just a remote possibility. Sadly, we’ll never know.

 

[v0x]

I’m pretty sure they were sure of it immediately.

Had he been found dead on the floor or something, then I’m confident there would have been different protocols used.

These were trained professionals that weren’t limited to the police department. They have extensive experience with all sorts of death investigations.

We don’t even know what they did in there, or what the scene really looked like.

If anyone believes that someone murdered Harley, climbed an antenna while holding his body, dumped him down a chimney, and staged the scene (glasses and coat), then I’ve got a bridge for sale.

Following that line of thought, they would have had to go down the chimney first to put the coat and glasses through the chimney flu.