IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[Wicked Strong]

Family attorney for toddler who died falling from cruise ship says Royal Caribbean has been ‘giving a false narrative since day one’

Winkleman states that RCCL has had a "false narrative" since day 1 of Chloe's death. Hmmm...

Did Winkleman film this video himself? I am put off with the funeral music playing. This is over the top trying to play on sympathy for the parents and lawsuit.

MOO

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Yes! Also, if you look at the bottom of the glass, you can see how it goes to the floor. She could of walked right up and looked out to see everything. No need to lift her. Also, look at the guys arm at the end of the video easily breaching the plane of where the glass would of been. SA could of easily lifted her out IMO

 

[In vino veritas]

Wow. That makes me uneasy too. Very much so. That and it seems like so much early stuff about the case and the family has been scrubbed off the Internet...

True. I remember reading a report shortly after the incident stating that SA had lost his balance and dropped Chloe while they were leaning out the window to look at incoming planes.
I cannot find an reference to that news report I originally read. And, believe me, I searched!

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

True. I remember reading a report shortly after the incident stating that SA had lost his balance and dropped Chloe while they were leaning out the window to look at incoming planes.
I cannot find an reference to that news report I originally read. And, believe me, I searched!

I wonder who scrubbed the info off the Internet?

 

[justice4allnow]

Did Winkleman film this video himself? I am put off with the funeral music playing. This is over the top trying to play on sympathy for the parents and lawsuit.

MOO

The best reply to that video and its melodramatic music in on that site and is this: "Lets start a class action lawsuit against the Parents, Gramps, & the Lawyer as their attempt at a money grab in this frivolous lawsuit has caused Royal Caribbean expensive defense costs and these will be passed on to future cruise customers!"

 

[justice4allnow]

I wonder who scrubbed the info off the Internet? View attachment 227901

I recall seeing that several times right after it happened, both as "he lost his balance" and as "he stumbled."

 

[justice4allnow]

I recall seeing that several times right after it happened, both as "he lost his balance" and as "he stumbled."

From FoxNews on Nov 26, 2019: "Port Authority officials said Anello sat the girl in the window and lost his balance, and the girl fell to her death."

 

[Forever Young]

Then @ 6:40 a woman looks out and down. Out the window.

So this woman is also through the window? To me, it looks like she did the same thing SA did, looks over the railing, down, but not outside the ship.

If this is possible, I would like to see a bon voyage photo of passengers with their upper bodies out the windows, waving good-bye. I really thought the railing prevented people from doing just that.

 

[Forever Young]

People protect when they stand to lose something.

Oh for heaven's sake. That could apply to all of us, couldn't it?

 

[MsBetsy]

We learned a little about Chloe's life through her obituary, for instance that she liked to watch Frozen, "3 times a day," a movie that runs 102 minutes.( Recommended screen time for a child of 18 mos is not to exceed 30 minutes a day.) I also remember reading online a page set up for remembrances, maybe it ws on the obituary page itself, not sure, that a woman had an entry saying something to the father along the lines of, 'whenever I got a text saying hi neighbor, I knew that I'd be taking Chloe for the day and loved having her over and playing dolls with her' (but I'm paraphrasing.) And the entry was followed by a brief almost terse reply from Kim, saying thank you. When I read about Chloe watching Frozen repeatedly and a neighbor being asked to watch her, apparently repeatedly, I wondered whether the parents were finding it difficult to keep their child amused and occupied. I went back to find that entry from the neighbor about watching her and can't find it now, wondering if anyone else has seen it or maybe it has been deleted, though can't imagine why anyone would delete anything about Chloe. And I'm not sure why, but these apparently minor points made me uneasy.

I think wanting to watch movies over and over is pretty normal for kids. My own daughter must have watched Frozen at least twenty times, and sang songs from the soundtrack so often I could still hear her singing in my sleep.

Also it's difficult to keep any toddler amused and occupied. Some kids are constantly on the go and it's exhausting trying to keep them occupied and out of trouble.

However I have wondered if Chloe's parents, (and maybe grandparents) are the type that have a hard time saying "no" to their children.

I have been around many parents who feel that young children should be free to make decisions that our parents never would have considered. Sometimes I think they do it because it's just easier for them.

So I wonder if when Chloe walked over to the window and asked to be lifted up that SM just did what she asked without even considering that it was in violation of the rules or that it was dangerous.

It's unfortunate because all he would have had to do is say, no, it's not safe.

Imo

 

[ilovewings]

American toddler dies after fall from Royal Caribbean cruise ship - CNN

Here is the reference to grandpa losing his balance----

"The grandfather sat the girl in the window and lost his balance, and the girl
fell to her death".

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I think wanting to watch movies over and over is pretty normal for kids. My own daughter must have watched Frozen at least twenty times, and sang songs from the soundtrack so often I could still hear her singing in my sleep.

Also it's difficult to keep any toddler amused and occupied. Some kids are constantly on the go and it's exhausting trying to keep them occupied and out of trouble.

However I have wondered if Chloe's parents, (and maybe grandparents) are the type that have a hard time saying "no" to their children.

I have been around many parents who feel that young children should be free to make decisions that our parents never would have considered. Sometimes I think they do it because it's just easier for them.

So I wonder if when Chloe walked over to the window and asked to be lifted up that SM just did what she asked without even considering that it was in violation of the rules or that it was dangerous.

It's unfortunate because all he would have had to do is say, no, it's not safe.

Imo

W.H.O. Says Limited or No Screen Time for Children Under 5

 

[LietKynes]

Oh for heaven's sake. That could apply to all of us, couldn't it?

To some more than others.
RCCL is not at fault here.
The family knows this.
And most people don't sue when they know the other party did nothing wrong.
This is a money grab and the entire lawsuit is based on fabrications and lies by M. Winkleman and others.
Greedy and despicable.

 

[justbreathe]

Interesting...However, if it is proven that SA stuck his head and Chloe out the window (beyond the ledge (which houses the window), it would prove he knew the window was open. In other words, even if he didn’t see the window was open, once he stuck his head and Chloe beyond the ledge, he would have/should have known there was no

I feel where his head was is irrelevant because if it was out the window, that is just one more clue his senses should have picked on, like wind, noise, etc. If he could disregard those things I don’t think where his head was would be the thing that clued him that the window was open.

 

[justice4allnow]

I think wanting to watch movies over and over is pretty normal for kids. My own daughter must have watched Frozen at least twenty times, and sang songs from the soundtrack so often I could still hear her singing in my sleep.

Also it's difficult to keep any toddler amused and occupied. Some kids are constantly on the go and it's exhausting trying to keep them occupied and out of trouble.

However I have wondered if Chloe's parents, (and maybe grandparents) are the type that have a hard time saying "no" to their children.

I have been around many parents who feel that young children should be free to make decisions that our parents never would have considered. Sometimes I think they do it because it's just easier for them.

So I wonder if when Chloe walked over to the window and asked to be lifted up that SM just did what she asked without even considering that it was in violation of the rules or that it was dangerous.

It's unfortunate because all he would have had to do is say, no, it's not safe.

Imo

At 18 months most likely her communication was limited-I could imagine her raising her arms and saying "Up, Grandpa" for instance. But Sam has already told us that he made the decision to pick her up when he squatted down at her level and inexplicably thought that neither he nor she could reach the glass below. Why he decided to breach the safety rail above and place that precious toddler in the window is also inexplicable.

 

[LietKynes]

American toddler dies after fall from Royal Caribbean cruise ship - CNN

Here is the reference to grandpa losing his balance----

"The grandfather sat the girl in the window and lost his balance, and the girl
fell to her death".

Another fabrication spun by the family and lawyers as the ship was at port and not on the water, thus not in motion.
For those reading articles or watching snippets of news clips they may not understand how misleading this notion is.
Trust CNN to get to the bottom of it. *sarcasm intended*

If he lost his balance, he was drinking or high as a kite--- hence his refusal to be tested for drinking or anything else.
For the record, I do not believe he was either.
Something else was at play.

 

[In vino veritas]

You are right. How much time she spent watching movies doesn’t take away from the tragedy of her death. I dint believe that’s what the other poster implied. The ENTIRE obituary is over the top for an 18 month old toddler. It sounded more like the description of an 8 year old. What toddler watches at least five hours of tv per day? In other words the obit was exaggerated in more ways than one. Why? Why did they have to do that? It’s bizarre.
Secondly as some one else pointed out, they couldn’t have left her with her grandparents because they were all on the ship. Lastly just because mom was initially with her doesn’t mean anything. Doesn’t mean she was ignoring her but doesn’t prove she wasn’t. IMO, if this was not an accident and it was planned, it almost works out to a T. Mom just so happens to have something come up. Grandpa takes over and within minutes she’s dead. Then soon after mom is on a rampage blaming the ship and has a lawyer. You hear nothing from friends, family. No real info about anything. Mom and dad are on national tv within a matter of two weeks and she’s bitter beyond bitter. If my toddler died like this I wouldn’t be able to get out of bed for a month let alone go on tv and claim a lawsuit. Something is fishy here and all of their actions need to be taken into consideration. This could have been accidental but their behavior is strange.

Interesting. Mom just so happened to have to attend to something and she doesn’t have her stay with dad but grandpa and then almost immediately she’s gone in such a ridiculous situation. Then immediately the family has a lawyer blaming the ship. Coincidence? I don’t believe in coincidences. With everything that happened after the fact, none of these family members acted in a way most of us would.

Agreed. The speed with which an attorney was retained, with the intent to file a lawsuit declared, is odd. I can understand doing this after they had some time to process what happened to Chloe. But the parents and SA came out of the gate very aggressively blaming the cruise line, and doing it in a very public manner. And their continued absolution of SA, despite clear evidence of negligence by him, makes me question their integrity.... and intent.
IMO, SA has zero credibility, particularly after his CBS interview with DB. His recollections of what occurred were , IMO, very matter of fact. Emotionless. And that display of “ sobbing” , with no evidence of tears, substantiated to me that he has no real remorse.
I even now question the histrionics reported in the doctors account. From what I’ve gleaned, SA had been involved in community theatre, so he has acting experience. AND... he refused sedatives.
SO.... as much as I really want to believe this was a very stupid mistake by a reckless individual, part of me still thinks perhaps there was intent all along.

 

[justbreathe]

OK, I deleted an earlier post because it sounded angry, however, I am still at the angry stage. REALLY, SA caused the death of his granddaughter, there is no doubt about it. At his defense, he says he didn't know that the window was open. In my mind it doesn't matter, he still caused his granddaughters death. IT WAS NOT THE WINDOW THAT CAUSED THE DEATH! I'm in the Midwest and I don't give a crap about whether he is color blind or whatever the defense is putting out. The accident (or not accident) could have occurred at any place he was caring for his granddaughter. The world cannot be responsible for everything that is harmful. I admit I do not agree with lawsuits, and this one in particular.

That is why I am here - I am just so dang angry about the narrative of this civil suit.

I forget myself from time to time, also.

Sorry mods!

 

[wackyw]

I think wanting to watch movies over and over is pretty normal for kids. My own daughter must have watched Frozen at least twenty times, and sang songs from the soundtrack so often I could still hear her singing in my sleep.

Also it's difficult to keep any toddler amused and occupied. Some kids are constantly on the go and it's exhausting trying to keep them occupied and out of trouble.

However I have wondered if Chloe's parents, (and maybe grandparents) are the type that have a hard time saying "no" to their children.

I have been around many parents who feel that young children should be free to make decisions that our parents never would have considered. Sometimes I think they do it because it's just easier for them.

So I wonder if when Chloe walked over to the window and asked to be lifted up that SM just did what she asked without even considering that it was in violation of the rules or that it was dangerous.

It's unfortunate because all he would have had to do is say, no, it's not safe.

Imo

BBM

SA's words in the CBS interview ....

"
I bent down by her,
When I knelt down to be with her at that level I couldn't reach the glass, so I knew she couldn't
so that's when I decided I'd pick her up.
"

Chloe doesn't ask, he decides to pick her up, in my opinion because it's uncomfortable for him to squat down and move under the rail nearer to the glass.

IMOO

 

[Forever Young]

The 'conditions' of the ship? You mean the fact that the highest row of windows could be slid open for air?

I meant that the Wiegands' case is to decide whether the open windows in the middle row were an unsafe, negligent condition.