Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125

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No, it obviously did not get results, but I am sure LE would probably say that eventually someday it will. I have to admit at this stage after over 3 1/2 years I will be shocked if that second sketch looks even remotely close in age or appearance to what the actual person who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German looks like.

The only explanation I can come up with is that LE determined that Liberty German's video was just too blurry to be useful and decided to just try and use an early eyewitness sketch that was created a few days after the murders. Either they were going to use it or they were not. The alternative was to do nothing and stick with the original sketch and video.

In my opinion, they should not have dismissed the video. Writing on the press release that the second sketch is the face of the man from Liberty German's video is completely confusing since according to Abigail William's mother not even NASA or Disney has been able to make out the face of the man from the video. I think that LE wanted to solve the case so badly because life goes on. There are other cases and other resources that need to be used elsewhere.

They should not have dismissed the video, and we should not compare real people with NBG sketch.

As to OBG sketch, he reminds me of some historical persons, but not of the man on the video.
 
Circumstances are virtually everything. The events of their births - both Bundy and Keyes left kids, so I don’t feel comfortable getting into the issues of their births. But even Wikipedia discusses it in case of Bundy, as to Keyes, it is almost semi-obvious. And it is specifically about inheritance.

Their rearing. Not only “how bad” their parents were (maybe not). But Lord, if a three year old arranges knives around his aunt at night and no one takes him to a doctor...if he is sadistic towards animals, and no one cares...then the family is bad.

And later, towards being disliked by classmates, acquaintances. You know what is missing in Bundy’s life? Male friends. The same holds true about Gary Ridgeway. Of Keyes...he was in the army. Usually people come back covered in buddies. Keyes was respected, but afraid.

Personality disorders are partially genetic, too. As to antisocial PD, it is almost like a phase of male development. Getting into groups, running away, stealing, joyriding, drinking, using drugs, all nine yards, but doing all these nasties in a group.

Think of it, how would ancient, or medieval, society, deal with these guys? These groups? Well, in Ancient Greece or Rome our teenagers would be young adults, with own responsibilities (mostly, protecting the community). But in medieval times, they’d form groups, the Crusaders, for example...and be shipped overseas, and pillage, fight and kill...and no one at home would see it. And by 30, grow out of it, return back, settle down, get married.

It is interesting that of all personality disorders, antisocial is the one guys may grow out of. Usually, by mid-30-es, via organized sport, army, or AA.

What is different about serial killers? Most are not in a group.

About testosterone, it is hormone like any other. No more, no less. What would “overload of testosterone” do without cellular receptors to it? Without receptors to it, nothing will work. A man would even look a woman Androgen insensitivity syndrome - Wikipedia

Joan of Arc comes to mind...

And below receptors, there are G-proteins, and yes, it ends up with genes. Today they are discussing “the warrior gene” and MAO, tomorrow, there will be another repas du jour.

Are you suggesting Joan of Arc was a man?
 
Last night I was watching an old Unsolved Mysteries episode on YouTube, a case of a Mom and 2 teen daughters from Ohio who took a road trip to Florida. They went missing from their motel and were later all found murdered and dumped in the bay. The case went unsolved for over 3 years.....

Until LE decided to take a note found in the Mom’s car, giving directions to a boat launch ( presumably in the killer’s handwriting) and put it up on a billboard. Within a day, a neighbor recognized the handwriting and called LE, which led to an arrest. How awful that Liberty’s video/audio did not have this result!!
 
These were the main insights and takeaways I got from listening to these seasoned FBI agents discuss the case. I thought it was very helpful to hear their initial thoughts. I mean, especially Clemente, as he is one of the most famous criminal profilers in this country. Unfortunately, the press conference didn't have its intended effect or produce any results.

I tried to think of the reasons their plan (seemingly) failed and came up with these:
1. BG is deceased.
2. BG is locked up for another crime.
3. BG is a loner and/or transient (and isn't close enough to anyone who would notice a sudden change in behavior or appearance).
4. Individuals that have noticed changes in BG's behavior/appearance are unwilling to come forward (out of fear or out of love).
5. Individuals reported changes in BG but the information provided wasn't enough to lead to an arrest or successful prosecution.
6. BG is not local, moved on immediately after the murders, and hasn't given them much thought and/or doesn't dwell on the news and/or follow the case closely.

I've always worried that BG might be the type of killer like reason number six. There are some serial killers (dare I say, the majority of them) that don't care about the notoriety of their crimes. They kill because they get an urge or craving for the thrill of it and feel compelled to satisfy that urge. Once this urge is satisfied, they go on about their life as usual until the urge hits them again. Some have killed so many people that they've lost count. They don't see their victims as real people -- they are mere toys that are easily discarded and quickly forgotten.

I always go back to killers like Pee Wee Gaskins. The large majority of his victims were hitchhikers -- both male and female -- but he also killed people he personally knew. Like a pregnant nextdoor neighbor and her two-year-old child (despite the fact that she considered him a friend) and a younger cousin that had mocked him. He also killed for hire. In fact, he killed a fellow death row inmate for measly commissary money by constructing a makeshift bomb out of broken radio parts and planting it in his toilet. First, he earned the guy's trust by having conversations via the plumbing pipes. Then he convinced the guy to break his toilet (because he knew the guards would make him repair it) so he could install a two-way radio that he said he'd built to make their conversations easier. He planted a remote controlled bomb in the guy's toilet instead. When PW "called" him up on the radio when he got back to his cell, the guy put the receiver up to his ear and PW set off the bomb. Long story short, this guy killed anyone and everyone without thinking twice about it and lost count of his victims long before he died in that electric chair.

Murderers like Gaskins who have killed serially and have multiple motivations for their killings (the vast majority of Gaskins' killings, for example, were sexually motivated, of both men and women; only a few of his murders were committed to gain status or for other profit) are thankfully more rare than other types of murderers, even rare among serial killers. So if BG has killed before or since the Delphi murders, it's not very likely that his previous murders were different in motivation, whatever LE knows that to be (though it's possible).

Speaking to the local or non local piece of this, I think many of us might know of a place that, while not "local" to us anymore, was local to us during a part of our lives and that we still know like the back of our hand. Others of us may travel for work or pleasure and so there are many places that we are familiar with, though we don't live there - and these could be many states away from our homes. While I don't think LE is ruling something like this out, I think they are strongly taking into consideration empirical studies of murderers that show that they usually have very defined geographic areas of operation.

Normally killers work within so-called comfort zones, areas familiar to them and defined by an anchor point (usually a place of residence, place of employment, or residence of a relative). Sometimes they will spiral out of their comfort zone if their confidence has grown over the commission of many crimes, or to avoid detection if they've committed a series of murders.

The specter of long haul trucker killers and Israel Keyes loom large in our collective mythology, but the fact is that when you look at data very few murderers travel long distances to kill. If they do, it's likely because their work is travel-based or because they themselves live a transitory lifestyle. For a drifter, they go through life establishing a series of comfort zones.

If BG is the latter (equivalent to your #6 possibility, @cujenn81 ), and if he has shown multiple motivations for past or future offenses, this would be an unlikely situation but a very unfortunate one, as it could mean that the Delphi murders will never be solved without forensic links.
 
Last night I was watching an old Unsolved Mysteries episode on YouTube, a case of a Mom and 2 teen daughters from Ohio who took a road trip to Florida. They went missing from their motel and were later all found murdered and dumped in the bay. The case went unsolved for over 3 years.....

Until LE decided to take a note found in the Mom’s car, giving directions to a boat launch ( presumably in the killer’s handwriting) and put it up on a billboard. Within a day, a neighbor recognized the handwriting and called LE, which led to an arrest. How awful that Liberty’s video/audio did not have this result!!

Oba Chandler was the murderer. Horrible case. I read about it a few years back in this article "Angels and Demons" by Thomas French. He won a Pulitzer for his series.

Angels & Demons
 
Oba Chandler was the murderer. Horrible case. I read about it a few years back in this article "Angels and Demons" by Thomas French. He won a Pulitzer for his series.

Angels & Demons

I saw the Unsolved Mysteries episode on this and I just read the article you posted a link to and it is an awful crime with some parallels to Delphi. The big thing I take away from it is the keys to solving were relentless police work and eventually realizing the public was on their side. When they began trusting the media and the public and began releasing information....real information... LE finally got the tip they needed.
 
I have a question.
In the April 2019 Transcript of the press release, there is a quote:

"We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls."

DC did not actually say this . It was omitted. Does anyone think this was an oversight?

And..Any thoughts on the witness and why we have not heard much, if anything , about this?

My opinions and my observations.
 
I have a question.
In the April 2019 Transcript of the press release, there is a quote:

"We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls."

DC did not actually say this . It was omitted. Does anyone think this was an oversight?

And..Any thoughts on the witness and why we have not heard much, if anything , about this?

My opinions and my observations.
For the safety of the witness

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Some have said that Carter was overly emotional and as a result didn’t communicate everything that he was supposed to. I don’t know if this is truly what happened.

This is an example of the Mandela effect for me because I swear I remember him saying it during the PC!

cujenn, thanks again for transcribing that for us. It’s interesting to me that these hosts with law enforcement experience don’t see Carter as overly emotional and out of control, as some who follow this case see him, but rather acting as expected based off the assumed direction/instruction from the BAU.
 
Wow, okay.
The reason that extremely high testosterone levels present in many serial killers is important. Why?
This has been proven to be behind things like aggression, risk taking behaviors, mood swings and a higher than normal sex drive.
Anti-social personality disorder can exasperate the high testosterone levels . Or maybe the other way around?
As to the way a person is raised, I don't doubt that it can have an effect on someone that is already having issues.
But, I cannot compare the Delphi killer to the people that you are mentioning because for now there is nothing to compare.
And, Joan of Arc?
I am trying, but I have no idea how she correlates to this discussion.

These are my opinions
Yes, I personally believe this was most likely an oversight. Carter appeared to go off script with his aside about watching, The Shack. I think he got sidetracked when he went off script, which caused him to overlook the bit about having a witness by mistake.
 
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I saw the Unsolved Mysteries episode on this and I just read the article you posted a link to and it is an awful crime with some parallels to Delphi. The big thing I take away from it is the keys to solving were relentless police work and eventually realizing the public was on their side. When they began trusting the media and the public and began releasing information....real information... LE finally got the tip they needed.

What I took away from it was that the investigation was overwhelmed with just a few thousand tips. So much so, that the same woman tipped Chandler several times before it was actually looked at. And this investigation also used tip sorting/prioritizing computer technology but it came down to human judgment. Very interesting to think about in light of the even more massive amount of tips in the Delphi case.
 
Thank you for your response. Please note, I was not implying that opportunity is the ONLY factor necessary.
I was stating that without it, the attack does not take place.
A perpetrator needs to have victims, space and methodology in order to create opportunity.
Over simplistic? I can see why you feel that way, but without opportunity, no crime can take place.
The rest - the mental , emotional, the "sickness" the desire, the sexual motivation have BEEN playing in a perpetrators mind for a long time.
What did he need in order to carry out the fantasy?
Opportunity.
I have to disagree somewhat in that some killers make their opportunity to kill happen by determination and action, like Bundy did when he enticed some women away from a crowded area. I'm sure there are other examples. Not all killers wait on or look for opportunity to present itself. Some make it happen. Some hunters stroll, wait and watch but others scare up game. AJMO
 
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No, it obviously did not get results, but I am sure LE would probably say that eventually someday it will. I have to admit at this stage after over 3 1/2 years I will be shocked if that second sketch looks even remotely close in age or appearance to what the actual person who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German looks like.

The only explanation I can come up with is that LE determined that Liberty German's video was just too blurry to be useful and decided to just try and use an early eyewitness sketch that was created a few days after the murders. Either they were going to use it or they were not. The alternative was to do nothing and stick with the original sketch and video.

In my opinion, they should not have dismissed the video. Writing on the press release that the second sketch is the face of the man from Liberty German's video is completely confusing since according to Abigail William's mother not even NASA or Disney has been able to make out the face of the man from the video. I think that LE wanted to solve the case so badly because life goes on. There are other cases and other resources that need to be used elsewhere.
I still think LE knowing and being confident about knowing the Delphi killer's identity and LE being able to arrest someone with the confidence of conviction (usually dependent on prosecuting lawyers) are two separate realities. JMO that this could be the case.
 
I have to disagree somewhat in that some killers make their opportunity to kill happen by determination and action, like Bundy did when he enticed some women away from a crowded area. I'm sure there are other examples. Not all killers wait on or look for opportunity to present itself. Some make it happen. Some hunters stroll, wait and watch but others scare up game. AJMO

I think Israel Keyes would fall into the category of killers who make their opportunity to kill happen. In the end though, he broke all of his own rules by choosing a victim in his own hometown. This seems to be what gets some of them caught too. Joseph Duncan was previously an opportunistic killer who stalked and planned the killing of the Groene family when he kidnapped young Samantha and Dylan. This last crime is what uncovered his kidnapping and murders of other children including two sisters Sammie Jo White (11) and Carmen Cubias (9). Duncan was also charged with the murder of Anthony Martinez.
I hope that it won't be another killing that connects the Delphi murderer to this crime.
 
I have to disagree somewhat in that some killers make their opportunity to kill happen by determination and action, like Bundy did when he enticed some women away from a crowded area. I'm sure there are other examples. Not all killers wait on or look for opportunity to present itself. Some make it happen. Some hunters stroll, wait and watch but others scare up game. AJMO

Absolutely.
My response was originally in response to the question what was the catalyst ( I think the terminology was different) for the first attack?
As in, what made the killer use that day to green light his attack?
I would assume that over time and with experience , an SK would become more and more brazen.

My opinion. My observations.
 
Hello Roses,
I could totally understand that
But,why even put it out there at all?
And, witness.meaning a witness to the crime itself?
or to what?
It just seems to have been disregarded?
Hmmmm
IMO MOO
Hard to say. He may have mentioned it in a moment of emotionalism, or to bait the Perp. As to what they saw, I can’t even guess.

amateur opinion and speculation
 
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