Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #57

[CSIDreamer]

People who are LDS get blessings for sickness or comfort. I know I’ve personally had one right before surgery. However; they aren’t typically done over the phone.

All jmo moo imo

Are a blessing and a prayer different for LDS? Would Alex have said I'm really sick, can you pray for me or would he have asked for a blessing? I'm curious about the timing and lingo. JMO

 

[Boxer]

Things I wonder about:

Was the blessing on speakerphone, in the same manner as when MG spoke with Chad and Lori on the recorded call? Somehow, I think that Chad and Lori had no secrets between them at this point.

Where does Chad's phone call to Samantha line up with this day? I am referring to Samantha saying on Dateline that Chad called her and wanted to know if she'd heard anything about Tammy being exhumed. Samantha knew nothing about it and she and her husband went to the cemetery to see if it was true. Apparently the Daybell children knew nothing about it, either. So who informed Chad that Tammy had been exhumed?

Interesting.
A cemetary worker?

 

[Countem]

RSBM

Can someone tell me what they see in Chad’s array of descriptions of Tammy’s alleged illness and death that would suggest AlC was dealt with in the same way? I grant you his death is mighty convenient for the Chadster and his Lollipop.

While it is a relatively common symptom, both were described as coughing prior to their deaths. For TD, this can be found in many news articles as described by CD (Tammy Daybell’s autopsy is complete). For AC, Tortoise just recently posted (between our posts) a mini transcript of the police speaking with ZP where she describes that AC was coughing based on what she was told by CD and LD (though she says that when she last spoke with him he was not coughing).

Also, there are cases of poisoning presenting itself as a pulmonary embolism, including organophosphate toxicity, cyanide poisoning, and carbon monoxide poisoning.

Organophosphate (which I think would be most likely) is commonly found in insecticides and medications.

This article draws a correlation also presents a very interesting case study that sounds similar to AC.

Pulmonary thrombosis in acute organophosphate poisoning—Case report and literature overview of prothrombotic preconditioning in organophosphate toxicity - ScienceDirect

“The clinical features of poisoning were miosis, vomiting, dizziness, abdominal cramps and diarrhea. Soon after admission, she developed difficulties in breathing[.]”

However, I would like to think that these would have been identifiable on the toxicology reports, if they were looking for it.

MOO.

 

[indicolite22]

Interesting.
A cemetary worker?

Chad's regular mobile number (not a burner) must have been still working, despite him and Lori being on the run. I think MG called them on that number a few days earlier.

 

[Tortoise]

RSBM



While it is a relatively common symptom, both were described as coughing prior to their deaths. For TD, this can be found in many news articles as described by CD (Tammy Daybell’s autopsy is complete). For AC, Tortoise just recently posted (between our posts) a mini transcript of the police speaking with ZP where she describes that AC was coughing based on what she was told by CD and LD (though she says that when she last spoke with him he was not coughing).

Also, there are cases of poisoning presenting itself as a pulmonary embolism, including organophosphate toxicity, cyanide poisoning, and carbon monoxide poisoning.

Organophosphate (which I think would be most likely) is commonly found in insecticides and medications.

This article draws a correlation also presents a very interesting case study that sounds similar to AC.

Pulmonary thrombosis in acute organophosphate poisoning—Case report and literature overview of prothrombotic preconditioning in organophosphate toxicity - ScienceDirect

“The clinical features of poisoning were miosis, vomiting, dizziness, abdominal cramps and diarrhea. Soon after admission, she developed difficulties in breathing[.]”

However, I would like to think that these would have been identifiable on the toxicology reports, if they were looking for it.

MOO.

Sorry! I should have been clearer. That was ZP coughing on the recording, not her saying Alex was coughing.

 

[Spartygirl]

@Spartygirl Mini Transcript (might contain errors) starts at 15:01 in Tricia's youtube below -



Q. Has he been sick lately?
ZP: No he's just been shortness of breath, um

Q: When he's walking or when he's sleeping, shortness of breath?
ZP: Um,

Q: Can he go for a walk without getting short of breath?
ZP: Like he'll go up the stairs and he will get short of breath going up the stairs, and then the last couple of days he's been, once he gets up, he's 'oh I feel so winded..'

Q: He hasn't gone to a doctor for that, nothing like that?
ZP: No we asked him for that...

Q: Does he see a doctor on a regular basis?
ZP: No he doesn't, I mean he's just the healthiest person that you can imagine (little laugh) I mean he's just so healthy!

Q: Okay. My name's Mike, this is Dave, I'm gonna get you some information, so I'm just going to be as honest as I want someone to be with my wife, I'm just going to get some information, do we have his license at all? Does he have a wallet anywhere?
ZP: (gasps of breath, tears)

Okay that's fine (whispers to colleague...go see if you can find that) ... I know this is a lot coming at y'all at once, you're doing good, just keep breathing, okay?
ZP: (crying...okay...)
...Mike is probably one of our best paramedics,
ZP: (mutters something)
Q: What's that?
ZP: He was blue when I walked in, and so I started doing compressions, (shouting) he was blue on the face...

Q: When was the last time you talked to him?
ZP: He was talking...I was at work and he was talking to one of my friends on the phone, because he said that he wasn't feeling well so my friends said that they would give him a blessing, so they were giving him a blessing over the phone and then my friends texted me and said 'you better get home now'

Q: They were giving him a blessing over the phone?
ZP: Giving him a blessing over the phone and then my friends texted me and said 'you need to get home now he's not doing well, he's on the ground in the bathroom', so I called my son and I said 'go over there and make sure he doesn't pass out, I'm on my way home. And then I just had the impression that he needed to call 911 so I just I said stay on the phone with me and then I said no, hang up and call 911 right now.

Q: Okay what time was the blessing over the phone? Do you know?
ZP: I have it right here. I can't guess right now. 3:18.
Q: 3:18?
ZP: Yep. And I called my son at, oh I called him at 3:15. So it was around, 3:15. (little cough) .

Q: Okay. And then what made them tell you to come home immediately?
ZP: They said that he wasn't, that he wasn't,

Q: Someone was here with him?
ZP: No, on the phone, they were on the phone.

Q: Okay. Was he talking to them?
ZP: coughing. He was talking when I called him. And he was talking to Joseph. He was talking to you right?
Joseph: No, when I walked in he was passed out Mom, and I called 911.
ZP: So what happened when you said don't get up? Remember you said don't get up?
Joseph: No he was trying to move and stuff, he was like trying to like, going 'haaaa'

Q: Did you guys ever do any chest compressions on him at all?
Joseph: No, no.
ZP: I did when I walked in,


Q: So when you got here you did CPR?
ZP: Yes. I started compressions as soon as I walked in.

...

Thank you @Tortoise
This whole thing is hinky, just like the rest of that group.
ZP saying 'he is so healthy and the healthiest person " you could imagine.
Hmmmm

 

[Lusitana]

Thank you @Tortoise
This whole thing is hinky, just like the rest of that group.
ZP saying 'he is so healthy and the healthiest person " you could imagine.
Hmmmm

He's super healthy, but he has been getting short of breath from walking up the stairs. Makes no sense, a healthy person doesn't get short of breath from simple daily tasks like that. I highly doubt he was ever super healthy.

 

[indicolite22]

Thank you @Tortoise
This whole thing is hinky, just like the rest of that group.
ZP saying 'he is so healthy and the healthiest person " you could imagine.
Hmmmm

What is she trying to say? That she's surprised by his sudden illness? It was the opposite of Chad claiming that Tammy had health issues for a while. Unlike Chad did with Tammy, ZP wasn't trying to diagnose Alex.

 

[Nurse Gen]

The following is my opinion only.

Wow. I feel like this is telling. This could indicate that AC knew that he was going to die. Like many, I speculate that the cause of death for AC will end up mirroring the cause of death for TD (if something other than natural causes is determined). If TD were poisoned, it would make sense for AC to “take one for the team” and ingest whatever remained of the poison to dispose of evidence, especially the day after TD’s exhumation.

Again, that all is my opinion only.

Along the same lines, I am beginning to wonder if Tammy knew that she was going to die. If Chad convinced her that she had a mission on the other side of the veil and needed to take her healing malachite tonic to get to the other side of the veil to complete it. AlC could have been sold a similar story. Of course, this is MOO

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Are a blessing and a prayer different for LDS? Would Alex have said I'm really sick, can you pray for me or would he have asked for a blessing? I'm curious about the timing and lingo. JMO

Yes, there’s some slight differences. Honestly he could have asked for either since I am not sure how closely AC followed this religion. And I’m not sure how serious CD (assuming this was the friend on the phone call) took blessings (these are looked at as very special things).

Here’s a couple links on priesthood blessings if you want to read more: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...7-priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings-eng.pdf
Administering to the Sick

But if it was me, I would have needed to be pretty miserable to ask for prayers or even a blessing. Though anyone can request either at anytime depending on how they feel or what they need.

All jmo moo imo

 

[Countem]

Sorry! I should have been clearer. That was ZP coughing on the recording, not her saying Alex was coughing.

Whoops! Ignore the coughing, then!

I suppose that there are no confirmed similarities other than them seeming to be relatively healthy beforehand (ZP only mentions that he had shortness of breath previously) and dying suddenly.

I still feel that it is too strong of a coincidence that AC died just after TD was exhumed.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Also, it wasn't my intention to get into a long conversation about lighters and torches because odds are, they're not relevant. It had just surprised me if it was drug paraphernalia given the LDS stuff. I was just answering @SleuthD-o-doubleg

Would the torches belonging to someone else in the house make sense.

 

[Beans]

Those blowtorch style gas lighters are also used for lighting candles. Sometimes because they have a higher flame and longer reach, and sometimes because they’re better than matches etc if you’re lighting a few at a time.

 

[NeopolitanFisherman]

Has anyone mentioned if Alex used sacred consecrated olive oil on his head before the phone blessing from Chad? Mormons do that with blessing the sick.

RSBM



While it is a relatively common symptom, both were described as coughing prior to their deaths. For TD, this can be found in many news articles as described by CD (Tammy Daybell’s autopsy is complete). For AC, Tortoise just recently posted (between our posts) a mini transcript of the police speaking with ZP where she describes that AC was coughing based on what she was told by CD and LD (though she says that when she last spoke with him he was not coughing).

Also, there are cases of poisoning presenting itself as a pulmonary embolism, including organophosphate toxicity, cyanide poisoning, and carbon monoxide poisoning.

Organophosphate (which I think would be most likely) is commonly found in insecticides and medications.

This article draws a correlation also presents a very interesting case study that sounds similar to AC.

Pulmonary thrombosis in acute organophosphate poisoning—Case report and literature overview of prothrombotic preconditioning in organophosphate toxicity - ScienceDirect

“The clinical features of poisoning were miosis, vomiting, dizziness, abdominal cramps and diarrhea. Soon after admission, she developed difficulties in breathing[.]”

However, I would like to think that these would have been identifiable on the toxicology reports, if they were looking for it.

MOO.

 

[carbuff]

Those blowtorch style gas lighters are also used for lighting candles. Sometimes because they have a higher flame and longer reach, and sometimes because they’re better than matches etc if you’re lighting a few at a time.

Do you know how many candles one needs to light in order to start an earthquake?

 

[Beans]

Do you know how many candles one needs to light in order to start an earthquake?

Oh, you’d surely be looking at upwards of a dozen anyway. At least.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

<snipped>

I wasn't sure what they were, either. I saw them at a counter, and I'm a sucker for flowers in glass. Plus they were cheap, and it was a privately owned station, so I thought I'd get a yellow rose just add a buck to my purchase.

I took it home and got to looking at it and thought "what in the heck is this thing?" I showed it to my brother and he said it was a meth pipe, so I wrapped it in paper and smashed it with a hammer. I didn't know they were called 'love roses' to even google it!

wow.... learn something every day....

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Things I wonder about:

Was the blessing on speakerphone, in the same manner as when MG spoke with Chad and Lori on the recorded call? Somehow, I think that Chad and Lori had no secrets between them at this point.

Where does Chad's phone call to Samantha line up with this day? I am referring to Samantha saying on Dateline that Chad called her and wanted to know if she'd heard anything about Tammy being exhumed. Samantha knew nothing about it and she and her husband went to the cemetery to see if it was true. Apparently the Daybell children knew nothing about it, either. So who informed Chad that Tammy had been exhumed?

Way back, there was an assumption that any cemetery workers, and any town maintenance workers were probably close to Chad, and most likely had his cell number.
Small town, and he was always connected to the cemetery himself.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Trust me: if you are experiencing symptoms of late-stage bilateral PE, you definitely think you might be dying. If I hadn’t called 911 when I went through that, I would not have lived even two more hours. I thought I was having a heart attack, though. Like Alex (AFAIK), I was unaware of having a genetic blood clotting condition, let alone PE. I just thought I was overweight and out of shape. If a pulmonologist hadn’t happened to be in the ER when I arrived, and caught signs of PE in some test they were doing, they’d have continued treatment for heart trouble and I might well have died.

So really, I think AlC’s final day was spent feeling horrible — after weeks of feeling increasingly horrible — and wondering what was wrong. He apparently paid some attention to his health, thus the trek to Mexico for cheaper prescription drugs, though prescribed by whom, we know not.

The only evidence of foul play comes from others we can justly side-eye for their response to his death.

Can someone tell me what they see in Chad’s array of descriptions of Tammy’s alleged illness and death that would suggest AlC was dealt with in the same way? I grant you his death is mighty convenient for the Chadster and his Lollipop.

Your clear understanding of bilateral PE is very helpful here. It does point to this being a natural death. I have remained curious about the cyalis. IF he started taking this because of his new marriage, and had no idea that it could contribute to a multitude of serious heart related issues---> he was just enhancing his own death.

On the other hand, in more of a WS way of looking at this..... if someone KNEW the cyallis had this effect, there could have been some nefarious drug mixing going on.......

I don't know how easy it would be to track down prescription drug purchases in Mexico... or if they have tried to track.

I have always been curious why he would take that longer trip to get any prescription??? And maybe the blowtorches have something to do with some other concoction from Mexico that could be cooked up????

I just hope that LE has some of this data.... but at this point it doesn't really pertain to the death of the kids, so we will probably never know.

 

[Lusitana]

While I do think Alex’s death was caused by his health issues, his wife’s reaction is a bit weird. Why would she even feel threatened by taking to LE?

It was probably natural causes but I wouldn’t be exactly surprised if something else was about to happen to him or was already going on and that’s why she was so on edge.