CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

[Sillybilly]

Here is the explanation, from the article linked:
One example is that in the absence of a clause that would contemplate a scenario where both spouses die simultaneously, often referred to as a “common disaster clause”, spouses with mirror wills may have certain bequests triggered twice.

<rsbm>
Thanks ldlager. I had disregarded that because, if Honey truly did not leave a Will, there is no mirror Will with specific bequests to consider.

 

[MistyWaters]

Rbbm.
Very interesting thought, one that iirc- has not been previously mentioned.
Really, other than the party host and perhaps some of the other guests, who would know that BS cancelled going to the Xmas party that he apparently attended every year!
PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines.

How do we know he attended this certain gathering ever year? It was held at a local restaurant so it seems it was more of a department gathering considering Apotex’s 1000s of employees in and around TO, not unusual at all for individual divisions to get together for a more personal social gathering and still attend a big Xmas bash. The reason the Xmas party was mentioned iirc was because JD noticed Honey’s car in JKs parking spot. As he was in NY, it can’t have been something he planned on attending either.
The Billionaire Murders

One thing I hadn’t known was JK’s daughter was lead attorney representing Barry in the lawsuit filed by the orphaned cousins. That’s very interesting. Small world as JK was apparently Barry’s closest friend as well. Is that the reason KW implicated JK as a possible assistant killer, as posted earlier on this thread?

 

[MistyWaters]

I have been thinking about this case, trying to come up with a scenario that might merit some new discussion.
We have (I think its fair to say) generally assumed that the killers targeted both Barry and Honey. This is what TPS stated in their press conference. But how would they know that? Of course they may have been a note or something left behind confirming this, but I somehow doubt it.
Alternatively, let's consider the possibility that HS was in fact the person that was targeted for murder. Why, I don't know, but there perhaps was someone with an extreme dislike or hatred for HS. It is possible thatBarry arrived home earlier than anticipated that night- perhaps whoever was involved in these crimes had knowledge or assumed that that BS would be attending the Apotex party that night that JD attended, and therefore BS wouldn't be home until later.
If Barry arrived home earlier than expected, and the killers were still in the house, having already perhaps murdered HS, the killers may have been left with no alternative but to kill BS.
Leaving aside speculation as to why the bodies were positioned as they were, I think it is possible that HS was in fact the real target, and BS just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. JMO- comments welcomed

If it’s true the couple was murdered between 9pm and midnight I’d think they were both targeted.


Barry Sherman's son says his father asked him to repay tens ...
https://www.toronto.com › news-story › 10305692-barr...Jan. 11, 2021 — ……..were killed that evening, likely between 9 p.m. and midnight.

 

[dotr]

How do we know he attended this certain gathering ever year? It was held at a local restaurant so it seems it was more of a department gathering considering Apotex’s 1000s of employees in and around TO, not unusual at all for individual divisions to get together for a more personal social gathering and still attend a big Xmas bash. The reason the Xmas party was mentioned iirc was because JD noticed Honey’s car in JKs parking spot. As he was in NY, it can’t have been something he planned on attending either.
The Billionaire Murders

One thing I hadn’t known was JK’s daughter was lead attorney representing Barry in the lawsuit filed by the orphaned cousins. That’s very interesting. Small world as JK was apparently Barry’s closest friend as well. Is that the reason KW implicated JK as a possible assistant killer, as posted earlier on this thread?

Who Killed Honey and Barry Sherman: Investigating The Unsolved Billionaire Murders

''At D’Angelo’s annual company Christmas lunch at his Mamma D’s restaurant (with dishes made according to recipes D’Angelo created), adjacent to the soft drink and juice plant he has in Mississauga, Sherman was always seated beside D’Angelo. Sherman would miss the 2017 lunch, held the day before the Wednesday when the Shermans were most likely killed, because he had a scheduled meeting he could not miss. D’Angelo was not at the Sherman funeral, at the request of the Sherman children.''

 

[MistyWaters]

Who Killed Honey and Barry Sherman: Investigating The Unsolved Billionaire Murders

''At D’Angelo’s annual company Christmas lunch at his Mamma D’s restaurant (with dishes made according to recipes D’Angelo created), adjacent to the soft drink and juice plant he has in Mississauga, Sherman was always seated beside D’Angelo. Sherman would miss the 2017 lunch, held the day before the Wednesday when the Shermans were most likely killed, because he had a scheduled meeting he could not miss. D’Angelo was not at the Sherman funeral, at the request of the Sherman children.''

Thanks dotr! My apologies, I was thinking of the Wednesday Apotex Xmas party. D’Angelo’s lunch party was the Tues, the day prior to the murders….just sorting out the calendar in my head.

 

[Rush4087]

Jack Kay was in New York, and he’s a person of integrity and has a stellar reputation. JS said his issue with Kay involved differing ideas about running Apotex and Kay’s ongoing friendship with Frank D’Angelo.

That’s odd. Why would KW suggest that Barry called Jack Kay to assist? KW knows that Jack Kay was in NY that night.

 

[branmuffin]

Det. Yim said it was four months into the investigation that a pattern emerged and a theory was developed. I’ll try to look back later, but did the police receive important data as a result of a warrant at the four-month mark, April, 2018?

(FWIW April was significant as daughter KS’s wedding took place that month and Barry and Honey would have been travelling had they lived. They had plans to travel to Japan in March, 2018 and Israel in April, 2018.)


It’s a small detail, but Donovan mentioned in his 2019 book that Det. Yim was in his mid-thirties. I’ve only seen one photo of him, but his serious expression might make him appear a bit older than he is....hopefully we won’t lose him from the case before it’s solved. But he seems less confident about the case being resolved and so does Donovan. Last November everyone involved sounded more confident.

I don't think it's possible Yim is in his mid thirties. He's been a detective for over 15 years. You don't start out as a detective; you have to be 21 to start as a probationary constable. So he probably worked a beat for a few years or worked in a specialized area if he's bilingual.

He's probably in his early to mid 40s. I don't know if TPS have an 80 or a 90 factor for retiring.

 

[branmuffin]

I have no more proof than the other theories and/or speculations. Does anyone have any proof of who in fact did it ?

I think an autopsy, even two autopsies, would find evidence the strangulation was to cover up an injury. Anyone who helped BS to kill himself and stage both deaths as murder would probably be charged with aiding and abetting and a whole slew of other charges.

 

[branmuffin]

The person/people who killed the Shermans either had something against them eg. Was mad at them for something, and hated them so much that they were willing to kill them, or they stood to gain something significant from their death. Perhaps the person who did the killing was hired to do so for someone who had something against them, or for someone who was going to gain something from their death.
While there has been speculation that one of their children did this, I honestly don’t think it is possible. No matter how angry you might be with your parents nor how badly you may long for your inheritance, very rarely could a person look their parents in the eye and kill them, and then stage this sad sight. I suppose one could hire someone to do it, but could they live with the guilt? Could they just go on like nothing happened? Would there be a money trail? Would there be sociopathic signs or a pattern of abnormal behaviour in advance that could suggest it was leading up to a double murder?
I don’t know any of the people involved in this sad tale, so I don’t know what they are capable of. Killing another human being, especially in this manner would not be a simple, easy task. Imagine how much motivation would be required. How much would someone have to truly hate both Barry and Honey to do this to them? If anyone here knows the family or knew the Shermans, could you honestly see someone doing this who knew them?

Websleuths is littered with murderers who kill for money. They kill their parents, their spouses and children. For every one on WS, you could multiply it by a 1000 worldwide.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I don't think it's possible Yim is in his mid thirties. He's been a detective for over 15 years. You don't start out as a detective; you have to be 21 to start as a probationary constable. So he probably worked a beat for a few years or worked in a specialized area if he's bilingual.

He's probably in his early to mid 40s. I don't know if TPS have an 80 or a 90 factor for retiring.

He seems older to me as well, but I’m just going by what Donovan wrote (pg 244 of my ebook by KD):


The book came out in 2019, he might be in his late-thirties now. You may be right and KD guessed his age incorrectly.

ETA: I’m hoping he’s younger and the case doesn’t lose him to retirement.

 

[deugirtni]

I have been thinking about this case, trying to come up with a scenario that might merit some new discussion.
We have (I think its fair to say) generally assumed that the killers targeted both Barry and Honey. This is what TPS stated in their press conference. But how would they know that? Of course they may have been a note or something left behind confirming this, but I somehow doubt it.
Alternatively, let's consider the possibility that HS was in fact the person that was targeted for murder. Why, I don't know, but there perhaps was someone with an extreme dislike or hatred for HS. It is possible thatBarry arrived home earlier than anticipated that night- perhaps whoever was involved in these crimes had knowledge or assumed that that BS would be attending the Apotex party that night that JD attended, and therefore BS wouldn't be home until later.
If Barry arrived home earlier than expected, and the killers were still in the house, having already perhaps murdered HS, the killers may have been left with no alternative but to kill BS.
Leaving aside speculation as to why the bodies were positioned as they were, I think it is possible that HS was in fact the real target, and BS just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. JMO- comments welcomed

I don't think there is anything to say this theory could NOT be correct. However, if B 'surprised' the killers by arriving home earlier than expected, that doesn't seem to line up with the evidence we have already been told about, which is that it appears B was accosted as soon as he entered the house from the garage (based on the gloves and home inspection report found on the floor near the garage door). It's possible the killer(s) could have heard the car pulling up, or the garage door opening however, and ran down to that area to get him before he could make it too far past the interior garage door?

That could possibly explain why the bodies were left in the pool area, as opposed to the main floor or upper level, ie B may have been too heavy (I'm not sure on B's weight at the time of his death?) for said killer(s) to lug him UP the stairs, and easier/simpler to perhaps carry/slide/push H down the stairs?

Which then leads me to wonder... if the intent was to only kill H, was the motive to bring shame, reputational damage, hatred, fear, etc., to B, as he would be set up to appear to be H's killer? ie he would arrive home and find her murdered, and somehow be blamed and accused (since he was the only one there, and reportedly no sign of break-in or theft), spending the rest of his life in prison, never being able to enjoy his wealth, family and friends, and no longer having the ability to do whatever work he was still doing within his company(ies)? If that plan didn't work out as anticipated, plan B may have been born where the killer would instead kill them both, but also SOMEHOW trick police into believing H had been murdered and B had committed suicide after killing her, and it would in effect, serve the same purpose(?) If that is the case, then it seems to speak rather loudly in favor of any potential POIs in this case who may hang onto and promote the M/S theory to police and perhaps others, even though police long ago deemed it a double homicide. imo.

This theory would presumably exclude a 'financial motive', which it seems police are investigating and others close to the Shermans may be thinking, ie JK saying to 'follow the money', etc. .... unless someone *thought* H had created a will which included certain bequeathment(s) which possibly had not been made? Was H's will found afterward by the killer(s), and upon seeing no expected bequeathment(s), did the killer(s) then take her will with them to destroy - possibly for the purpose of making a case for H at some point telling other(s) of said expected bequeathment(s) and that the proof has disappeared? Ugh, the mind wanders..........

 

[deugirtni]

I don't think it's possible Yim is in his mid thirties. He's been a detective for over 15 years. You don't start out as a detective; you have to be 21 to start as a probationary constable. So he probably worked a beat for a few years or worked in a specialized area if he's bilingual.

He's probably in his early to mid 40s. I don't know if TPS have an 80 or a 90 factor for retiring.

He seems older to me as well, but I’m just going by what Donovan wrote (pg 244 of my ebook by KD):
View attachment 298661

The book came out in 2019, he might be in his late-thirties now. You may be right and KD guessed his age incorrectly.

ETA: I’m hoping he’s younger and the case doesn’t lose him to retirement.

I hope KD would have corrected that bit if it was in error.. but it sure seems to be in error... else this guy may have endured quite a rough life, imho. From this link, Dennis Yim's picture:

PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines.

 

[deugirtni]

I think an autopsy, even two autopsies, would find evidence the strangulation was to cover up an injury. Anyone who helped BS to kill himself and stage both deaths as murder would probably be charged with aiding and abetting and a whole slew of other charges.

Most likely murder as well? In our country, I believe it is still considered murder, even if you 'help' someone kill themselves, unless perhaps you're an MD? jmo.

 

[MistyWaters]

Most likely murder as well? In our country, I believe it is still considered murder, even if you 'help' someone kill themselves, unless perhaps you're an MD? jmo.

That KW thinks nobody will ever be charged because someone “helped” Barry die is too preposterous to debate. If as a Canadian he’s unaware how illegal that is, including assisting to cover up another murder…..perhaps he should call a free legal help line because we’re not going to convince him.

However it’s interesting by that ridiculous suggestion it’s KW’s admission there indeed was a 3rd party in the Sherman home that night so after all this time his adamant m/s theory is finally put to rest.

But still, why wouldn’t he want that same 3rd party held accountable is the million dollar question for me.

 

[WINDSOR]

IIRC Honey got home first that evening. Unless someone has info that states she was kept alive until Barry got home, it might be reasonable to assume she was killed first. Now one could speculate that the killers might have wanted Barry to see her die, because they were sadists. The TPS probably has a very good idea of sequence of events.
Honey being the target alone? What would be the motive, and then if Barry's death was collateral damage and unintended, the body staging then makes absolutely no sense. I do not think Honey was the only target, I believe both were.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I have been thinking about this case, trying to come up with a scenario that might merit some new discussion.
We have (I think its fair to say) generally assumed that the killers targeted both Barry and Honey. This is what TPS stated in their press conference. But how would they know that? Of course they may have been a note or something left behind confirming this, but I somehow doubt it.
Alternatively, let's consider the possibility that HS was in fact the person that was targeted for murder. Why, I don't know, but there perhaps was someone with an extreme dislike or hatred for HS. It is possible thatBarry arrived home earlier than anticipated that night- perhaps whoever was involved in these crimes had knowledge or assumed that that BS would be attending the Apotex party that night that JD attended, and therefore BS wouldn't be home until later.
If Barry arrived home earlier than expected, and the killers were still in the house, having already perhaps murdered HS, the killers may have been left with no alternative but to kill BS.
Leaving aside speculation as to why the bodies were positioned as they were, I think it is possible that HS was in fact the real target, and BS just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. JMO- comments welcomed

I could add another line of thought, what if Barry was accosted before he got home and the culprits were in the car with him when he came home or followed him down the driveway and surprised him once he exited his car? Maybe Honey was home and upstairs and heard a commotion downstairs and called out to Barry and was only then chased to the front powder room where her phone was found after Barry was home?

If they were both tied up I think the culprits wanted time in the residence to either look around or torture/question/threaten B+HS. Otherwise why tie them both up and why spend hours in the home. We know they arrived home separately, and it is suggested that it is more than an hour Honey was home alone, I could understand if she was tied up, but why tie up Barry later if they did not want to communicate with him or someone else (like if they were kidnapped via a home invasion and a ransom type of situation.) I may have missed it but no reports I recall was any evidence that their mouths were covered with duct tape or anything, just hands obstructed to limit mobility via quick ties and coats pulled down to lock arms behind them. (another strange tactic, I remember school kids - the bullies- pulling other kids coats and trapping them in their own coats, it is an interesting tactic used.

Bobbi Pearl

 

[ldlager]

<rsbm>
Thanks ldlager. I had disregarded that because, if Honey truly did not leave a Will, there is no mirror Will with specific bequests to consider.

Agreed, thank you. However, at least one individual has claimed that HS had a will that was recently updated. I presume TPS knows if one exists.

 

[ldlager]

How do we know he attended this certain gathering ever year? It was held at a local restaurant so it seems it was more of a department gathering considering Apotex’s 1000s of employees in and around TO, not unusual at all for individual divisions to get together for a more personal social gathering and still attend a big Xmas bash. The reason the Xmas party was mentioned iirc was because JD noticed Honey’s car in JKs parking spot. As he was in NY, it can’t have been something he planned on attending either.
The Billionaire Murders

One thing I hadn’t known was JK’s daughter was lead attorney representing Barry in the lawsuit filed by the orphaned cousins. That’s very interesting. Small world as JK was apparently Barry’s closest friend as well. Is that the reason KW implicated JK as a possible assistant killer, as posted earlier on this thread?

yes, it was his daughter. She is a well known lawyer in Toronto.

 

[ldlager]

IIRC Honey got home first that evening. Unless someone has info that states she was kept alive until Barry got home, it might be reasonable to assume she was killed first. Now one could speculate that the killers might have wanted Barry to see her die, because they were sadists. The TPS probably has a very good idea of sequence of events.
Honey being the target alone? What would be the motive, and then if Barry's death was collateral damage and unintended, the body staging then makes absolutely no sense. I do not think Honey was the only target, I believe both were.

None of us have been able to definitively put a finger on why anyone would want to kill either of them!

 

[ldlager]

IIRC Honey got home first that evening. Unless someone has info that states she was kept alive until Barry got home, it might be reasonable to assume she was killed first. Now one could speculate that the killers might have wanted Barry to see her die, because they were sadists. The TPS probably has a very good idea of sequence of events.
Honey being the target alone? What would be the motive, and then if Barry's death was collateral damage and unintended, the body staging then makes absolutely no sense. I do not think Honey was the only target, I believe both were.

There has been reporting that certain people did not like HS (hated iirc). We don’t know what her will contained, what she planned to do with any inheritance she received if BS was to die. I think she could have been targeted, but jmo