Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #4 *ARREST*

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Estelle said:
It was not referred to as a wrongful death case. They described it as a civil case. I assumed at least C's mother would try to get her 50,00 euros back from the plot of land. But I got the impression that it might take a year.

B's parents seemed to have done a turnaround from the media reporting that neither B's parents nor his brother wanted anything to do with him to reading that B's solicitor said that the parents were going to testify on B's behalf. How could they do that when they had not even met the baby in eleven months. That implies that they had not seen C in that time. It appears that the publication of C's supposed leaked digital diaries have had a big influence on public opinion of C now to the extent that many people seem to be open to believing B in that C was the abuser. Let's hope that they can prove that the digital diaries were written by B. The handwritten diary is still being interpreted.
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Re B parents: No surprise, didn't C write that she didn’t like them? There was evidently tension there.
 
MsBetsy said:
If he did create a "false" diary, he probably described real incidents of abuse and turned it around to make Caroline the abuser and himself the victim.
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That is also why I am open to believing that he either wrote Savros' two suicide notes or forced him to write them. Handwriting needs to be checked.
 
Estelle said:
Are you the person who suspects that B has been having an affair with the "shapely" woman in his professional circle and C found out?
In my theory B could also have been having an affair with her too. I don't suspect that much had been going on in the bedroom with C and B for a while.

Also the other loose end is the black BMW and who was driving it? Could it have been Stavros? Could it have been this other woman? Could it have been the organised crime boss?. Could it have been irrevelant?

What do you think?
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Yes, I theorize that B was having on and off relations with Stavros, who was gay, for years, and sure, an affair with the voluptuous colleague. As I've said before, narcs could care less who they sleep with, as long as it suits their urges. They do not have the same moral compass or emotional attachments as regular monogamous or polyamorous people. ETA: One of my parents and one of my serious partners were both Ns. Sadly, I speak from experience.
 
Dotta said:
Re B parents: No surprise, didn't C write that she didn’t like them? There was evidently tension there.
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As an N or similar, B would not have wanted C to get close to his family. Do notice, though, that his brother, Fotis, from the start, stood by C's parents, so B's family weren't in the dark about his manipulative nature.
 
Murdered Caroline Crouch's diary of despair | Daily Mail Online

According to this article, and if the police are correct in their code-breaking skills, CC called B a 'Palio Poustis' in her diary. For whatever reason, the Daily Mail have decided to ignore the homophobic element to that expression and focus on the 'dirty old' bit and suggest it was used to describe B, possibly because of their age gap.
Could any of our Greek speakers shed any light on whether it's commonplace to use this expression as a sort of general slur about any pervy old man, including paedophiles for example, or does it tend to be aimed specfically against older gay men?
 
Dotta said:
If F knew, why didn't he rescue C?
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Can you rescue somebody who doesn't want to be? I assume F's hands were tied, especially if his brother, Mr. bulletproof vest SWAT escort was involved in anything shady. C wouldn't even go to her parents or friends with it. Teens work from their lizard brain (limbic cortex?) in tense situations and, often, adolescents (ages 10-24) think they are invincible. Maybe she thought this way or she believed she could handle the situation?
 

7:15 newswoman: he told us (this story about the fake robbery) about how the police would find the murderers, and now, in the same way, he's telling us that he didn't have an accessory, he did it alone
7:30 AK: Yeah, yeah (sarcastically). And now he's insisting that was alone. Let's hope that there do not exist/aren't tie-ups with other murders . . . I'll leave it there
7:46 newsman: What other murders?
AK: if he was really alone, then he'll pay the price (in the justice system) for what he's done. If he wasn't alone . . . if there was a queue behind him (of criminals), this has to be proven by the authorities and brought to justice
 
tayaway said:
Yes, I theorize that B was having on and off relations with Stavros, who was gay, for years, and sure, an affair with the voluptuous colleague. As I've said before, narcs could care less who they sleep with, as long as it suits their urges. They do not have the same moral compass or emotional attachments as regular monogamous or polyamorous people. ETA: One of my parents and one of my serious partners were both Ns. Sadly, I speak from experience.
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Yes I agree. I have also had many experiences with narcissists. My mother was a somatic narcissist and my father was a cerebral narcissist. I did not know then.

Therefore I often attracted male narcissists who would love bomb me with flowers, dinners, and so on until they thought they had won me over and then they turned.

That is how I see C's and B's relationship. B loved bombed C flying over to see her and flying above her on school excursions. What girl would not think he was madly in love with her? She was impressed and assumed he loved her. She was probably in limerence (Limerence is a state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person and typically includes obsessive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to form or maintain a relationship with the object of love and have one's feelings reciprocated).

However, we have learnt today that C fell pregnant and had the miscarriage before they married. It is not a good start to a marriage but they did not have a shot gun marriage as we previously thought. IMO C was more in love with B than he was with her from the beginning. He was her first love. For B to marry her, he must have had an agenda. A young girl that he could control? Wealthy or generous parents? A cover for his bisexuality to give him respectability and to have a child?
 
Lola68 said:
Sjrrt

But B didn’t know C kept a secret diary - so from his POV there was just the (digital) one so nothing odd in that. Fortunately, he’s not as clever as he thinks and this charade is all going to unravel soon IMO
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He seems quite dumb really.
I think I could have set up a crime scene more efficiently than he did. For a start, he forgot the part where he tried to speak to C and make comforting noises to the baby whilst awaiting the police.
He also forgot to tie his hands so that he couldn't use them (according to the police).
Oh, and he forgot to mess up the Monopoly pieces and the screws from the 'broken into' window.
And then there's the Apple watch....
 
Patrick Jane said:

7:15 newswoman: he told us (this story about the fake robbery) about how the police would find the murderers, and now, in the same way, he's telling us that he didn't have an accessory, he did it alone
7:30 AK: Yeah, yeah (sarcastically). And now he's insisting that was alone. Let's hope that there do not exist/aren't tie-ups with other murders . . . I'll leave it there
7:46 newsman: What other murders?
AK: if he was really alone, then he'll pay the price (in the justice system) for what he's done. If he wasn't alone . . . if there was a queue behind him (of criminals), this has to be proven by the authorities and brought to justice
Click to expand...

In many interviews, including this one, AK's been hammering on about B's body language and his being completely emotionless after the murder of C. This is the first interview where he's mentioned "tie-ups with other murders." I'm wondering if he's hinting around that this wasn't the first time that B has murdered someone. In other words, is AK hinting around that we're not just seeing the coldness of narcissist personality disorder, we're also seeing experience? An experienced murderer? JMO
 
Estelle said:
Yes I agree. I have also had many experiences with narcissists. My mother was a somatic narcissist and my father was a cerebral narcissist. I did not know then.

Therefore I often attracted male narcissists who would love bomb me with flowers, dinners, and so on until they thought they had won me over and then they turned.

That is how I see C's and B's relationship. B loved bombed C flying over to see her and flying above her on school excursions. What girl would not think he was madly in love with her? She was impressed and assumed he loved her. She was probably in limerence (Limerence is a state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person and typically includes obsessive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to form or maintain a relationship with the object of love and have one's feelings reciprocated).

However, we have learnt today that C fell pregnant and had the miscarriage before they married. It is not a good start to a marriage but they did not have a shot gun marriage as we previously thought. IMO C was more in love with B than he was with her from the beginning. He was her first love. For B to marry her, he must have had an agenda. A young girl that he could control? Wealthy or generous parents? A cover for his bisexuality to give him respectability and to have a child?
Click to expand...
All so true.
Mind you, the newspapers can't decide whether the miscarriage was before or after marriage. Some have B 'quoted' as saying it was shortly after. But who knows. And I don't even think it matters really, right?
 
Patrick Jane said:
In many interviews, including this one, AK's been hammering on about B's body language and his being completely emotionless after the murder of C. This is the first interview where he's mentioned "tie-ups with other murders." I'm wondering if he's hinting around that this wasn't the first time that B has murdered someone. In other words, is AK hinting around that we're not just seeing the coldness of narcissist personality disorder, we're also seeing experience? An experienced murderer? JMO
Click to expand...

The way this lawyer talks about B's coolness (state of being emotionless) also has me thinking along these lines.
 
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