Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #4 *ARREST*

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Yes they did not think she would have time to have a boyfriend. But, as a parent, I always wanted to know where my children were. I was a teacher so I was lucky to have school holidays with them. Perhaps C would say she was going somewhere else but she was meeting up with B. Alonissos sounds like a small island so if his helicopter flew in, you could possibly hear it. Could it land on Alonissos? Or did C have to go on a ferry to meet him in which case she would have to have money to pay for the ferry? It sounds to me that C and B did everything behind her parents' back and never at night so they weren't suspicious. Surely some of the locals must have seen them? Or did he arrive in the helicopter and fly her somewhere else and have her home in time for dinner? But I also wonder how often they saw each other. Did they really know each other very well? Of course, they could have communicated daily via mobile and internet and her parents would not have been any wiser.

As far as generational gaps are concerned, my second child was born when I was almost 40yo and her father was 48yo. I don't think our ages were a problem as I was divorced when she was 6yo so I was a single parent who was very active, sporting, worldly and modern in my ideas. I was not over-protective, warned them about having to take the consequences of their actions and the types of people they could meet and so on.

Living on an island does not give a person the experience that living in a big city does. I think C was too trusting, young and inexperienced in life. But she may have also been keen, as many teenagers are, to live in the big city of Athens.

I also predict that B was C's first boyfriend.

Lots of solid points to consider! Alonnisos has a heliport for chopper landings. Bringing her flowers in a chopper on the weekend and then flying away after a couple hours - that's certainly no way to get to know somebody! They certainly must've done it covertly, with locals catching on, though. Yes, I think she did one of those teenaged lies and told her parents she was spending a few days at her best friend's, when she was actually going to Portugal to get married? One of the recent articles noted that C did not know the real B at all until she moved in with him after marrying. Do you think it was like the stereotypical switch, from prince charming, to the jerk who demands she give him what he wants when he wants and how he wants? I'm reminded of a movie, This Boy's Life, that starred Ellen Barkin and Robert DeNiro. After the wedding, she got a brutal awakening. Was it the same for C?

eta: Well ya, B was her first bf, I mean, geez, he scooped her up pretty soon after she hit puberty, so...
 
Lots of solid points to consider! Alonnisos has a heliport for chopper landings. Bringing her flowers in a chopper on the weekend and then flying away after a couple hours - that's certainly no way to get to know somebody! They certainly must've done it covertly, with locals catching on, though. Yes, I think she did one of those teenaged lies and told her parents she was spending a few days at her best friend's, when she was actually going to Portugal to get married? One of the recent articles noted that C did not know the real B at all until she moved in with him after marrying. Do you think it was like the stereotypical switch, from prince charming, to the jerk who demands she give him what he wants when he wants and how he wants? I'm reminded of a movie, This Boy's Life, that starred Ellen Barkin and Robert DeNiro. After the wedding, she got a brutal awakening. Was it the same for C?

eta: Well ya, B was her first bf, I mean, geez, he scooped her up pretty soon after she hit puberty, so...

What a shock C must have had to find out that her fairy tale marriage had turned into a nightmare! (and finally her death). It's heartbreaking!
 
Lots of good points made here recently. But hopefully we'll get some new information before much longer, so that we can get a better idea of the real motive. I feel that the real motive is what's really important.
 
Yes they did not think she would have time to have a boyfriend. But, as a parent, I always wanted to know where my children were. I was a teacher so I was lucky to have school holidays with them. Perhaps C would say she was going somewhere else but she was meeting up with B. Alonissos sounds like a small island so if his helicopter flew in, you could possibly hear it. Could it land on Alonissos? Or did C have to go on a ferry to meet him in which case she would have to have money to pay for the ferry? It sounds to me that C and B did everything behind her parents' back and never at night so they weren't suspicious. Surely some of the locals must have seen them? Or did he arrive in the helicopter and fly her somewhere else and have her home in time for dinner? But I also wonder how often they saw each other. Did they really know each other very well? Of course, they could have communicated daily via mobile and internet and her parents would not have been any wiser.

As far as generational gaps are concerned, my second child was born when I was almost 40yo and her father was 48yo. I don't think our ages were a problem as I was divorced when she was 6yo so I was a single parent who was very active, sporting, worldly and modern in my ideas. I was not over-protective, warned them about having to take the consequences of their actions and the types of people they could meet and so on.

Living on an island does not give a person the experience that living in a big city does. I think C was too trusting, young and inexperienced in life. But she may have also been keen, as many teenagers are, to live in the big city of Athens.

I also predict that B was C's first boyfriend.
It is always a pleasure to listen to a teacher :) :)
 
in.gr July 17

LE interviewed 3 women that B had relationships with in the past, who are no longer connected to him. Some insights into his character were provided, but LE didn't release that info yet.

[To keep things in perspective, compare B's lengthy experiences at age 27 with C's age 14 - turned 15 year old virgin status when they consummated their relationship.]
 
There are too many odd things in this story. The father didn’t know his daughter had a relationship and was going to Portugal to get married, according to this last Daily Mail interview. Caroline went to Athens to chose her wedding dress. Who paid for the dress and for the trip to Portugal?They they ask who she was going with? How did they take on the news of her surprise wedding? It seems she had a lot of freedom and not much accountability as a young 17/18 old. Was she already at University in Athens then or was she living at home? According to some reports the parents were paying £1000 per month to help out the couple. No close involvement and no questions asked? There are many things that don’t add up in this tragic story.
 
Please help me out here! Did I misread the auto translation about B's 3 former gfs? Did he date them while he was with C, not before? Here's a different article.

Sport Time:

Freshwater Crime: The pilot had relationships with three other women besides Caroline.
New and riveting facts are coming out about the pilot who allegedly had relations with three other women besides Caroline.
...And through information, but also findings from mobile phones and Facebook profiles, the researchers came up with another fact. How he maintained parallel relationships with three women.


Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Ο πιλότος είχε σχέσεις με άλλες τρεις γυναίκες εκτός από την Καρολάιν
Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Ολοένα και νέα στοιχεία που καθηλώνουν βγαίνουν για τον πιλότο που φέρεται να είχε σχέσεις με άλλες τρεις γυναίκες εκτός της Καρολάιν.

...Και μέσα από πληροφορίες, αλλα και ευρήματα από κινητά τηλέφωνα και προφίλ στο facebook οιο ερευνητές κατέληξαν σε ένα ακόμα γεγονός. Πως διατηρούσε παράλληλες σχέσεις με τρεις γυναίκες.


 
Please help me out here! Did I misread the auto translation about B's 3 former gfs? Did he date them while he was with C, not before? Here's a different article.

Sport Time:

Freshwater Crime: The pilot had relationships with three other women besides Caroline.
New and riveting facts are coming out about the pilot who allegedly had relations with three other women besides Caroline.
...And through information, but also findings from mobile phones and Facebook profiles, the researchers came up with another fact. How he maintained parallel relationships with three women.


Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Ο πιλότος είχε σχέσεις με άλλες τρεις γυναίκες εκτός από την Καρολάιν
Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Ολοένα και νέα στοιχεία που καθηλώνουν βγαίνουν για τον πιλότο που φέρεται να είχε σχέσεις με άλλες τρεις γυναίκες εκτός της Καρολάιν.

...Και μέσα από πληροφορίες, αλλα και ευρήματα από κινητά τηλέφωνα και προφίλ στο facebook οιο ερευνητές κατέληξαν σε ένα ακόμα γεγονός. Πως διατηρούσε παράλληλες σχέσεις με τρεις γυναίκες.
In Polish translation it is also the "parallel" word BUT it is written that he lost touch with them long time ago (which may mean before the wedding with C). But I have another question: Why does B in almost every photo look as if suffering from a toothache?? Surely he could afford a visit to a good dentist with all the money he got from C's family, no?
 
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In Polish translation it is also the "parallel" word BUT it is written that he lost touch with them long time ago (which may mean before the wedding with C). But I have another question: Why does B in almost every photo look as if suffering from a toothache?? Surely he could afford a visit to a good dentist with all the money he got from C's family, no?

Yes it looks to me as if he had been dating four women at the same time, including C, before they were married. These contacts were found in deleted messages on his mobile, email and Facebook. It sounds like he was like a sailor with a woman in every port but, in this case, a pilot with a woman near every heliport!

If this is the case, I have the feeling that B was not looking for marriage and was, in fact, a confirmed bachelor who got caught out when C became pregnant. Then it was a case of either marriage or an abortion. Being a religious girl, maybe C did not believe in abortions and B felt obliged to marry C. My gut feeling is that C's mother knew more about this than C's father. In this situation, most young girls would tell their mothers and ask for advice. So perhaps B agreed to marry C on the condition that C's mother paid them a monthly income as he claimed that he would not be able to support a wife and baby. Perhaps C's mother also felt obliged to pay for the wedding dress, trip to Portugal and later, the money for the plot of land, coffin and its transport? It appears to me that C loved B more than he loved her - not that I think B, being a narcissist, is capable of true love. So did B marry C out of obligation and later felt resentment? His body language in photos certainly looks like that to me!
 
Yes it looks to me as if he had been dating four women at the same time, including C, before they were married. These contacts were found in deleted messages on his mobile, email and Facebook. It sounds like he was like a sailor with a woman in every port but, in this case, a pilot with a woman near every heliport!

If this is the case, I have the feeling that B was not looking for marriage and was, in fact, a confirmed bachelor who got caught out when C became pregnant. Then it was a case of either marriage or an abortion. Being a religious girl, maybe C did not believe in abortions and B felt obliged to marry C. My gut feeling is that C's mother knew more about this than C's father. In this situation, most young girls would tell their mothers and ask for advice. So perhaps B agreed to marry C on the condition that C's mother paid them a monthly income as he claimed that he would not be able to support a wife and baby. Perhaps C's mother also felt obliged to pay for the wedding dress, trip to Portugal and later, the money for the plot of land, coffin and its transport? It appears to me that C loved B more than he loved her - not that I think B, being a narcissist, is capable of true love. So did B marry C out of obligation and later felt resentment? His body language in photos certainly looks like that to me!
Yes, what you wrote is the most probable scenario. And with her willfulness and his possible personality disorder, the disaster was inevitable. Not that it excuses his horrible crime, of course.
 
"Bomb" in Glyka Nera: Revelations from the lifting of banking secrecy - Babis dowry hunter
  • JULY 19, 2021
The lifting of the banking secrecy of the murderer Babis Anagnostopoulos from Glyka Nera sheds light on the scenarios that had been heard about the illegal transactions of the pilot but also about his relations with Caroline. The declassification process has not been completed and therefore clear conclusions will emerge when this process is completed According to a report in the newspaper Realnews, there are no suspicious transactions, however, the lifting of the secrecy of the bank accounts shows the sending of money at regular intervals by the parents of the unfortunate Caroline to a joint account maintained by the couple.

Also, the flights made by the 33-year-old pilot by helicopter have been thoroughly investigated, but without any evidence of illegal transactions or strange trips that could hide a deadly secret.

Babis had three "chicks" at the same time! Caroline discovered him. According to a new report in the newspaper "Real News", the laboratory findings show the parallel involvement of the 33-year-old pilot with three women in addition to his 20-year-old wife, before her murder. This is the conclusion reached by the investigators who have undertaken the case based on material from mobile phones and internet profiles which "betray" the close relationship of the confessed murderer with these three women, but which according to the data have nothing to do with the heinous crime in Glyka Nera. Authorities have contacted all three women to "determine their relationship" with Caroline's killer and to determine whether they affected the couple's relationship. As it turned out, however, all three had stopped having contact with him long before he killed his wife in the Freshwater maisonette. It is worth noting that no one gave an official statement, except for a "friendly conversation" with the police. Anagnostopoulos himself , for his part, did not even have their phones stored on his device, while he had also deleted the messages between them in various internet communication applications.According to the report, the authorities' communication with these women led to valuable conclusions about the character of the 33-year-old Freshwater killer.

However, during the main investigation, it is possible that the prosecutor and the investigator will call the confessed murderer to testify again, in order to provide clarifications for possible new facts, which may arise from the ongoing investigations. After all, as it has become known, the data do not "tie" with the "accidental" crime, as the 33-year-old pilot wants to present it.

The removal of the camera, the disappearance of the CCTV memory card, but also the direction of the alleged robbery by "rogue foreign robbers", who killed his wife, advocate the premeditated crime. Therefore, as long as there are dark spots in the shocking case of Freshwater, its file will remain open and every point will be thoroughly investigated, until the whole truth is revealed. Authorities are examining the people who were based on evidence in the life of Babis Anagnostopoulos shortly before the murder of Caroline Krauts.

«Βόμβα» στα Γλυκά Νερά: Αποκαλύψεις από την άρση του τραπεζικού απορρήτου - Προικοθήρας ο Μπάμπης
 
Nothing very new in the article above but I was curious about the use of the word, "dowry" in the heading.

Here are some of the definitions that I found on google.

Dowry
, a centuries-old custom, involves a woman's family paying her new husband's family. It is still prevalent in parts of South Asia, the Middle East, parts of Africa and in some communities in Britain. The dowry is intended to help set up the couple's new household, especially in cultures where it is rare for a woman to work outside the home. If a woman died without having any sons, her husband would have to return the dowry to the bride's family, deducting the value of the bride price. Payment, as property or money, of a bride's inheritance by her family to the groom or his family at the time of marriage. One purpose of the dowry was to provide support for the wife on the husband's death.Dowry has become a great economic burden to the middle and lower class families. ... Therefore Gandhiji has stated that one, who makes dowry a pre- condition for his marriage, not only shows disrespect to women but also humiliates his own nation, education and womanhood and such young person's should be socially boycotted. In the old days, a dowry is expected but a ring has become its modern replacement.

In the West, it is the often bride's family who shoulders the wedding expenses. In the Philippines, it has traditionally been the groom and/or his family who takes on the expenses of the entire wedding. But as Filipino weddings have slowly evolved into bigger social events, this practice is no longer strictly followed. The wedding expenses are usually divided between the two families. The gesture should come from the bride's family, however. If the bride's family is willing to shoulder some or half of the wedding expenses, the time to make this gesture should be at the pamanhikan dinner.

WEDDINGS IN THE PHILIPPINES | Facts and Details

In ancient Greece, the dowry is funds or property passed to a daughter at marriage to ensure her support if widowed but also to support her children. A woman had to bring a dowry with her when she married. A dowry was a gift of money, property, cattle, or something else of real value. The woman's parents worked out an acceptable dowry directly with the groom, unless he was still supported by his parents. There were usually no established age limits for marriage, although, with the exception of political marriages, waiting until childbearing age was considered proper decorum. Many women were married by the age of 14 or 16, while men commonly married around the age of 30. The tradition of the dowry, has its roots in ancient Greece when women were thought of as 'items for sale'
 
Nothing very new in the article above but I was curious about the use of the word, "dowry" in the heading.

Here are some of the definitions that I found on google.

Dowry
, a centuries-old custom, involves a woman's family paying her new husband's family. It is still prevalent in parts of South Asia, the Middle East, parts of Africa and in some communities in Britain. The dowry is intended to help set up the couple's new household, especially in cultures where it is rare for a woman to work outside the home. If a woman died without having any sons, her husband would have to return the dowry to the bride's family, deducting the value of the bride price. Payment, as property or money, of a bride's inheritance by her family to the groom or his family at the time of marriage. One purpose of the dowry was to provide support for the wife on the husband's death.Dowry has become a great economic burden to the middle and lower class families. ... Therefore Gandhiji has stated that one, who makes dowry a pre- condition for his marriage, not only shows disrespect to women but also humiliates his own nation, education and womanhood and such young person's should be socially boycotted. In the old days, a dowry is expected but a ring has become its modern replacement.

In the West, it is the often bride's family who shoulders the wedding expenses. In the Philippines, it has traditionally been the groom and/or his family who takes on the expenses of the entire wedding. But as Filipino weddings have slowly evolved into bigger social events, this practice is no longer strictly followed. The wedding expenses are usually divided between the two families. The gesture should come from the bride's family, however. If the bride's family is willing to shoulder some or half of the wedding expenses, the time to make this gesture should be at the pamanhikan dinner.

WEDDINGS IN THE PHILIPPINES | Facts and Details

In ancient Greece, the dowry is funds or property passed to a daughter at marriage to ensure her support if widowed but also to support her children. A woman had to bring a dowry with her when she married. A dowry was a gift of money, property, cattle, or something else of real value. The woman's parents worked out an acceptable dowry directly with the groom, unless he was still supported by his parents. There were usually no established age limits for marriage, although, with the exception of political marriages, waiting until childbearing age was considered proper decorum. Many women were married by the age of 14 or 16, while men commonly married around the age of 30. The tradition of the dowry, has its roots in ancient Greece when women were thought of as 'items for sale'
Dowry consisted of things a wife brought to the house: clothes, jewellery, tableware, linen, furniture, etc. in former times. It was the daughter's part of her family's wealth given to her by a father on her wedding day.
 
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