Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

[Justice101]

Sorry, changing subjects a little... thinking back when LE said that looking at all the simulations seen online and on youtube...that nobody so far, had gotten what happened right... and we should all just ignore all of those false representations. To me that says there was something unexpected in either where they went down the hill or something else MAJOR that everybody was getting wrong.

Here's a wild guess: BG did not approach and move the girls from the south end of the bridge. Yes, Libby did film him there at first... but that was only video and that what actually happened is he went back to the north side of the bridge and hid. Eventually, the girls thinking they were sort of vulnerable on the bridge itself and maybe thought BG might come back across and this time push them off the bridge, the girls then scurried back to the north side only to find BG there.

She activates the video/audio in her back pocket a second time when they see him again unexpectedly. He then pulled his gun and ordered them "down the hill" there on the north side of the bridge. When he took them down to that isolated location, he killed them there and maybe threw her shoe then over the creek to the other side to throw people off.

Again, not that I really believe all this...just trying to think out of the box. All this also because I still find it hard to believe a man could manhandle 2 girls across a flowing creek and up a hill of a muddy slippery bank without one or more of them getting away. I've always had a problem with the 3 of them crossing the creek and one alternate scenario to avoid that notion would be a scenario where they never crossed the creek at all. This crazy thought would satisfy both the "down the hill" audio as well as the notion that all simulations missed the mark.

That's my 2 cents worth for the day... what are the flaws/errors in facts that make this crazy idea wrong itself?

 

[IQuestion]

I thought the posts this weekend were fabulous and very interesting. Slowed down a bit now. My "suspected suspect"
(just made that one up, but I like it SS=Suspected Suspect) haunts me. Just in case anyone has any doubts, I really dislike him and find nothing redeeming in his persona. Even I was duped by him, at first, because none of his temp "jobs" stood out. I kept thinking, he could have had that job for a while. It wasn't as if he claimed he was a fitness instructor at the Y.
"You know you're a bright guy dude, there's no doubt. I would say most of the time you're probably the smartest guy in the room." (Most of the time dude, but not today!!)
Paraphrasing his replies:
So, I'm guilty because I have a drop box. Lots of people have drop boxes. (Well yes KAK they do, but most of them do not contain tons of CSAM data. Uh, yeah, businesses regularly use Dropbox. And that company is more than willing to turn over to LE if someone uses their products for criminal activity. Great shout out to the developers of Drop Box!! It's not their fault or intention for it to be uses by nefarious individuals.)
I don't have a driver's license. (Doesn't mean you don't knowhow to drive, have a family member who drives or a close pal who can drive you places.)
Specifically stated he deleted Libby because she annoyed him. (Did she annoy the persona of A_S or did she annoy the master manipulator KAK? Isn't it strange that he specifically identifies Libby.... Was she just a little too smart for you, KAK? Hmmm, I mean, how dare a 14 year old annoy you? Trying to find your true identity or expose you?).
... used to take drugs a lot together. I mean, hard drugs where you're gonna pass out. P.C.P., L.S.D. a lot you know mushrooms. (Hmm anyone ever check out the physical aggressiveness & more of PCP? Is he trying to point the finger at someone else being aggressive and violent?)
And, who can miss the subtle change in KAK's interview, that went from "I didn't do it" to "Show me the evidence of what you think I did." (Yep, sound familiar, "You want to know what we know." KAK sure wanted to know what evidence they had against him, huh?)
Just my random thoughts...hope to hear yours, too!

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I may not post regularly but there isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think of Abby & Libby.

 

[Yemelyan]

Sorry, changing subjects a little... thinking back when LE said that looking at all the simulations seen online and on youtube...that nobody so far, had gotten what happened right... and we should all just ignore all of those false representations. To me that says there was something unexpected in either where they went down the hill or something else MAJOR that everybody was getting wrong.

Here's a wild guess: BG did not approach and move the girls from the south end of the bridge. Yes, Libby did film him there at first... but that was only video and that what actually happened is he went back to the north side of the bridge and hid. Eventually, the girls thinking they were sort of vulnerable on the bridge itself and maybe thought BG might come back across and this time push them off the bridge, the girls then scurried back to the north side only to find BG there.

She activates the video/audio in her back pocket a second time when they see him again unexpectedly. He then pulled his gun and ordered them "down the hill" there on the north side of the bridge. When he took them down to that isolated location, he killed them there and maybe threw her shoe then over the creek to the other side to throw people off.

Again, not that I really believe all this...just trying to think out of the box. All this also because I still find it hard to believe a man could manhandle 2 girls across a flowing creek and up a hill of a muddy slippery bank without one or more of them getting away. I've always had a problem with the 3 of them crossing the creek and one alternate scenario to avoid that notion would be a scenario where they never crossed the creek at all. This crazy thought would satisfy both the "down the hill" audio as well as the notion that all simulations missed the mark.

That's my 2 cents worth for the day... what are the flaws/errors in facts that make this crazy idea wrong itself?

One potential problem is that if BG really said "down the hill" at the north end of the bridge, LE has a different theory:

Q. Describe the area where you believe “down the hill” was said?

A. South end of the High Bridge.

Source: County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

So if your idea is more correct than the "accepted" version, even LE doesn't know this yet (or, it wasn't their working theory in February of 2021). I have trouble thinking that they were just guessing about where "down the hill" was said; I feel that they must have some clues (maybe from the video itself, maybe elsewhere) that point to this.

 

[IQuestion]

I thought the posts this weekend were fabulous and very interesting. Slowed down a bit now. My "suspected suspect"
(just made that one up, but I like it SS=Suspected Suspect) haunts me. Just in case anyone has any doubts, I really dislike him and find nothing redeeming in his persona. Even I was duped by him, at first, because none of his temp "jobs" stood out. I kept thinking, he could have had that job for a while. It wasn't as if he claimed he was a fitness instructor at the Y.
"You know you're a bright guy dude, there's no doubt. I would say most of the time you're probably the smartest guy in the room." (Most of the time dude, but not today!!)
Paraphrasing his replies:
So, I'm guilty because I have a drop box. Lots of people have drop boxes. (Well yes KAK they do, but most of them do not contain tons of CSAM data. Uh, yeah, businesses regularly use Dropbox. And that company is more than willing to turn over to LE if someone uses their products for criminal activity. Great shout out to the developers of Drop Box!! It's not their fault or intention for it to be uses by nefarious individuals.)
I don't have a driver's license. (Doesn't mean you don't knowhow to drive, have a family member who drives or a close pal who can drive you places.)
Specifically stated he deleted Libby because she annoyed him. (Did she annoy the persona of A_S or did she annoy the master manipulator KAK? Isn't it strange that he specifically identifies Libby.... Was she just a little too smart for you, KAK? Hmmm, I mean, how dare a 14 year old annoy you? Trying to find your true identity or expose you?).
... used to take drugs a lot together. I mean, hard drugs where you're gonna pass out. P.C.P., L.S.D. a lot you know mushrooms. (Hmm anyone ever check out the physical aggressiveness & more of PCP? Is he trying to point the finger at someone else being aggressive and violent?)
And, who can miss the subtle change in KAK's interview, that went from "I didn't do it" to "Show me the evidence of what you think I did." (Yep, sound familiar, "You want to know what we know." KAK sure wanted to know what evidence they had against him, huh?)
Just my random thoughts...hope to hear yours, too!

Jumping off my post above. I was wondering where someone would/could easily get PCP in that area...so flashlight and rabbit hole, here I go. "One of the formerly legitimate uses of PCP was as a veterinary anesthetic. It makes pain all but irrelevant to the user. This lack of pain response is what leads to the myth that PCP gives people superhuman strength."

Here's How You Know Somebody Is High On Angel Dust

You don't want anything to do with this stuff.

www.businessinsider.com

Lots of farm animals in that area? IDK
Much of KAK's interview felt like the closing scene of All The Usual Suspects. After going through all the usual suspects, it turned out to be the one you least expected. LE let's the perp go because he has sufficiently convinced the detective, (paraphrasing) "It wasn't me. It was the other guy and besides, I'm not physically capable."
...fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...

 

[Boxer]

KAK is a liar, cat fisher MOO has to have a lot of rage from being used and abused to become the creep he is.

 

[minazoe]

KAK is such a liar..he lies in a very blasé and casual way too..like no anxiety...any anxiety seems feigned and inserted at various points to give an appearance of humanity...his protestations and fake hurt feelings at being accused are a joke and I can't believe they fell for his BS.

 

[Schatz]

@IQuestion , can you remind me/us who he said he did PCP and LSD with? I forget this part! Was it the random dude who hung out at their house?

 

[Schatz]

Nothing official or specific that I've seen, but being that they have all lived in the same rural area for all their lives, I find it unlikely that their paths never crossed. Though JBC is younger than TK but older than KAK, so that might make it less likely.

I misread @M. Kay ‘s original question. No, I do not know of any proven connection between Chadwell and the Klines. I do agree with @carbuff that given the size of Peru and that they all dwelled there for some time, I would be very surprised if they were unknown to each other. Even more so since they had some depraved criminal common interests.

My social media sleuthing has gotten me nowhere as regards a noteworthy connection. Which I find almost conspicuously odd. But not at all odd if that happened intentionally at some point.

I still want to get my hands on some area yearbooks …

 

[carbuff]

I'm thinking I should go back through JBC's Facebook photos to see if either of the K's are in them. Except I'm still traumatized from the first time...

 

[JnRyan]

Sorry, changing subjects a little... thinking back when LE said that looking at all the simulations seen online and on youtube...that nobody so far, had gotten what happened right... and we should all just ignore all of those false representations. To me that says there was something unexpected in either where they went down the hill or something else MAJOR that everybody was getting wrong.

Here's a wild guess: BG did not approach and move the girls from the south end of the bridge. Yes, Libby did film him there at first... but that was only video and that what actually happened is he went back to the north side of the bridge and hid. Eventually, the girls thinking they were sort of vulnerable on the bridge itself and maybe thought BG might come back across and this time push them off the bridge, the girls then scurried back to the north side only to find BG there.

She activates the video/audio in her back pocket a second time when they see him again unexpectedly. He then pulled his gun and ordered them "down the hill" there on the north side of the bridge. When he took them down to that isolated location, he killed them there and maybe threw her shoe then over the creek to the other side to throw people off.

Again, not that I really believe all this...just trying to think out of the box. All this also because I still find it hard to believe a man could manhandle 2 girls across a flowing creek and up a hill of a muddy slippery bank without one or more of them getting away. I've always had a problem with the 3 of them crossing the creek and one alternate scenario to avoid that notion would be a scenario where they never crossed the creek at all. This crazy thought would satisfy both the "down the hill" audio as well as the notion that all simulations missed the mark.

That's my 2 cents worth for the day... what are the flaws/errors in facts that make this crazy idea wrong itself?

Yeah, I've wondered about that statement. I don't know if it was stated more than once, but the one time I remember it was the F0X59 interview with ISP 1st Sgt Holeman. Holeman would also appear at 2018 CrimeCon with the Patty's and Williams. At that event he stated they would neither confirm nor deny they had DNA. At that same event he would go on to state that with regard to that first sketch, it takes weeks, even months to come up with a sketch. Then in February 2020, Sheriff Leazenby states in an interview with HLN that they have DNA but they don't know if they have the killer's DNA. Shortly after the April 2019 PC we learn that an ISP trooper drew the second sketch less than a week after the murders. Sometime before the April 2019 PC we no longer see the former ISP lead investigator, Holeman. I've come to place less trust in Holeman's statements. It doesn't mean I completely disregard his statement as he may have that one right. So any thinking outside the box is worth exploring.

 

[IQuestion]

KAK is such a liar..he lies in a very blasé and casual way too..like no anxiety...any anxiety seems feigned and inserted at various points to give an appearance of humanity...his protestations and fake hurt feelings at being accused are a joke and I can't believe they fell for his BS.

@IQuestion , can you remind me/us who he said he did PCP and LSD with? I forget this part! Was it the random dude who hung out at their house?

Sure Schatz, (Try saying that 3 times in a row really fast.) The part about the drugs actually starts on page 58 to 59 of the one- hundred- ninety- four- page- document. (My copies are already getting dog eared.) The name(s) of the people he is "trying to tag" as pals who had access to his phone when he passed out, are redacted. So I can't supply a name. And, even if I could, I wouldn't for the reasons I stated up thread. KAK's windings lack verisimilitude.
I'm out of touch on a lot of stuff, but what happened to the good ole days when you just offered a friend a cold drink? Good grief..PCP, LSD, mushrooms.... Nope. I'm not buying what he is trying to sell IYKWIM.

 

[kalvis]

I still want to get my hands on some area yearbooks …

Peru, Indiana public library has Peru High School year books available. They are not available for viewing online. Maybe someone local would try to find the info you are seeking….

Just a thought.

 

[M. Kay]

I misread @M. Kay ‘s original question. No, I do not know of any proven connection between Chadwell and the Klines.

Thank you for this reply! Correcting myself on saying I was 'discouraged', I meant about resolution of the case and definitely not this blog.

 

[sunshineray]

I misread @M. Kay ‘s original question. No, I do not know of any proven connection between Chadwell and the Klines. I do agree with @carbuff that given the size of Peru and that they all dwelled there for some time, I would be very surprised if they were unknown to each other. Even more so since they had some depraved criminal common interests.

My social media sleuthing has gotten me nowhere as regards a noteworthy connection. Which I find almost conspicuously odd. But not at all odd if that happened intentionally at some point.

I still want to get my hands on some area yearbooks …

Young America, IN is an even smaller town than Peru. Wiki says population is only 118.

 

[carbuff]

Young America, IN is an even smaller town than Peru. Wiki says population is only 118.

Is there a pizza place? JBC had a lot of pictures with various friends at a pizza place where it looked like they liked to hang out.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I wish there was a way to do a poll in this thread.

MOO.

 

[IQuestion]

Is there a pizza place? JBC had a lot of pictures with various friends at a pizza place where it looked like they liked to hang out.

I think I just experience deja vu or something. The highest rated is Pizza King....uh oh.

THE BEST 10 Pizza Places near Young America, IN 46932 - Last Updated August 2022 - Yelp

Best Pizza in Young America, IN 46932 - Pizza King, Hometown Pizza Shoppe, Burlington Pizza - The Barn, Mr J's Pizza & More, Ethan’s All American Grill, Tark's Pizza, Fire Pizza , Burlington Pizza King, Bruno’s Pizza Kokomo, Harvey Hinklemeyers

www.yelp.com

 

[sunshineray]

Is there a pizza place? JBC had a lot of pictures with various friends at a pizza place where it looked like they liked to hang out.

I don't know about that but I believe both families had a presence there at one time or another. AJMO

 

[Boxer]

Is there a pizza place? JBC had a lot of pictures with various friends at a pizza place where it looked like they liked to hang out.

Yes there is a Pizza King in Young America.
That is the Pizza King RL went to.