ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[thatssoamy]

<modsnip: Quoted post has been removed>

There has been extensive media interest regarding an incident at Taylor Avenue and Band Field on November 13, 2022, at 3:01 a.m. This incident was an alcohol offense which was addressed by the on-scene officer.

 

[philippa26]

Commenting mostly to mark my place. Been following this case and finding it so hard to determine what is fact and what is rumour sometimes (on different platforms)!! Sticking to WS for that reason.

Really hope this doesn't turn into a cold case.

 

[LizWords]

Devil's advocate POV here - how do we know that LE isn't doing a very good job and nothing they do or say will cool down SG. The only one who is speaking out this much and being this hypercritical is him. I haven't heard MM's parents speak out like this nor have EC's. Is it possible that majority should rule here and regardless of what they say or do, SG won't be satisfied?

Even if LE were definitively doing a good job, I totally understand why SG can't accept not having answers to questions that LE can't provide to him. That is why I think him hiring a PI so he can rest easy on at least a few points in the investigation is a good thing.

If I were in SG's shoes, the less than professional public communications about this case would concern me too. I have given LE a lot of slack in their communications, but by now, three plus weeks in, I would expect them to have tightened up the way they're communicating and, at the very least, nipped the contradictory statements in the bud.

I'm not saying LE isn't doing a good job, just that I question how good of a job they're doing...

I get that SG has not been presenting info well, but he's desperate and in a fog of grief and no one is helping him parse through the information he does have... Try to give him a break, he's in an unimaginable position right now...

 

[Lamima]

Where are you getting all this? The police didn't show up until the next day at noon.

Police were called to drunken disorder outside nearby, I do believe. During potential time frame.

 

[The Observer]

Just thinking aloud here so jmo but I wonder if the reason the two girls downstairs were spared wasn't because of locked doors but because the police literally arrived over the road (anyone know if there were lights and sirens).
Could this have disturbed the killer and forced them to flee?
It's spooky and sad that the police were literally just there as all this was happening.

IMO it's highly unlikely lights and sirens were used to attend to college kids.

 

[ACG2x]

There has been extensive media interest regarding an incident at Taylor Avenue and Band Field on November 13, 2022, at 3:01 a.m. This incident was an alcohol offense which was addressed by the on-scene officer.

I think you'll find that in many cases. Obviously LE would have no way of knowing there was a quad homicide happening just blocks away. In the Jayme Closs case, an officer was responding to the 911 call made before her mother was shot to death and she was kidnapped and drove right by the killer going the opposite way who had her in the trunk.

The officer obviously was distraught when he found this out, but would have no idea that was the case because there was no description of a vehicle made in the call since the killer parked near the street and walked up to the house and nobody could see it.

 

[BlueTunes]

I think the intent here is that hiding in the home is additional unnecessary risk. If you know the basic layout of the home which you could find online because it's residents were so active on SM and real estate sites gave you floor plans, you'd know the best entry and exit points.

If you had been to the home even once or knew someone who had, you'd know that the home was frequently not locked and the residents were pretty laissez-faire about who was allowed on premises - aka it was deemed a 'party house'. Entering the home while the residents were out and hoping you could hide until everyone was home and asleep adds a significant amount of unnecessary risk for a house that was very easy to access.

JMO I believe he was in that house before. If it was during a party then he could have easily unlocked one of the windows without anyone noticing.

 

[NickoD]

Police were called to drunken disorder outside nearby, I do believe. During potential time frame.

There has been extensive media interest regarding an incident at Taylor Avenue and Band Field on November 13, 2022, at 3:01 a.m. This incident was an alcohol offense which was addressed by the on-scene officer.

Thank you both for clarifying!

 

[Birmingplumb]

And a small college town at that. Having said that, I agree with hopewell that this isn't some young inexperienced college kid having a bad night. Whatever this is, it isn't that.

What then? what do you think was motive?

 

[ACG2x]

Even if LE were definitively doing a good job, I totally understand why SG can't accept not having answers to questions that LE can't provide to him. That is why I think him hiring a PI so he can rest easy on at least a few points in the investigation is a good thing.

If I were in SG's shoes, the less than professional public communications about this case would concern me too. I have given LE a lot of slack in their communications, but by now, three plus weeks in, I would expect them to have tightened up the way they're communicating and, at the very least, nipped the contradictory statements in the bud.

I'm not saying LE isn't doing a good job, just that I question how good of a job they're doing...

I get that SG has not been presenting info well, but he's desperate and in a fog of grief and no one is helping him parse through the information he does have... Try to give him a break, he's in an unimaginable position right now...

Fair and I don't blame SG at all. He wants justice for his daughter. Same as any father would want. What I'm saying is that none of the other families have spoken out this vehemently about the case so either they are satisfied LE is doing everything they can, or there's another reason.

I'm saying we're focusing on the small minority here and ignoring the silent majority. Would it change anyone's mind if say MM's Dad gave an interview and praised LE and said the communication has met his expectations? What I'm getting at is we're taking one set of statements from one family member when there are many and applying blanket logic.

 

[ACG2x]

JMO I believe he was in that house before. If it was during a party then he could have easily unlocked one of the windows without anyone noticing.

In the house before: Yes, I absolutely agree with you there. May have only been once but when you combine that with the amount of publicly available info on the layout of the home, that's probably all it took.

In the house on the night of the murders before they occurred: No - I have never believed that and would be very surprised if that is the case.

 

[kmartin96]

IDK, I just plugged back into this case after a 36 hour break. Whether he has hired one or is going to hire one, I hope he gets a really good, reputable, and honest one.

I worry he and his family are so overcome with grief and desperation that they are ripe to be taken advantage of...

I agree that I hope they get a "good one".....but I believe SG has a pretty good "BS" meter.....and wouldn't be taken advantage of for long. He ISN'T going to rest until he has answers and I commend him for that.

 

[layer]

I think he needs both a lawyer and a PI.

I think he needs a hug.

 

[Jealoushe]

The dog - Doodles are notoriously timid and anxiety ridden, and this dog has been confirmed by victims families that the dog was very timid and likely hiding. I'm sure the moment he heard any commotion he ran off to hide. JMO

 

[kmartin96]

IDK, I just plugged back into this case after a 36 hour break. Whether he has hired one or is going to hire one, I hope he gets a really good, reputable, and honest one.

I worry he and his family are so overcome with grief and desperation that they are ripe to be taken advantage of...

I agree that I hope they get a "good one".....but I believe SG has a pretty good "BS" meter.....and wouldn't be taken advantage of for long. He ISN'T going to rest until he has answers and I commend him for that.

 

[sleuth_truths]

I respect & enjoy all the differing contributions and thoughts here. Truly.

<modsnip>

SG is a father. IMO, he feels like he didn't protect her. He feels completely gutted and is frustrated (and probably terrified) that the person(s) who slaughtered his daughter in her sleep may never be caught. IMO, he feels that this is the only thing he can do for her now; the only way he can get justice for his child, which sadly, will be his final act as Kaylee's Dad. It's absolutely essential to him, at this time, to do everything he can to maybe try to find some peace in making sure he does everything to make that last act his very best.

Grief is complicated, convoluted, and complex when we lose a loved one to an illness or an accident, but I cannot even imagine how much MORE difficult and dynamic it must be when a loved one is viciously murdered -- especially when that loved one is your child. Of course he's angry. I would be angry, too...and I venture to offer that most (if not all) of those here, who are parents, would be angry, also.

The families of the other victims may be just as angry, but may be going through another stage of grief as well...because, remember, anger IS a stage of grief. Different personalities react to grief differently. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to believe memories of Kaylee growing up and/or hearing his little girl's voice over and over and over ("Daddy" this & "Daddy" that) are consuming him right now. I believe he's doing the best he can in a situation NONE of us (hopefully) have ever been in. It's profoundly unfair to create & try to stick him into a box filled with opinions (of strangers, nonetheless) about how he should be grieving & what he should be doing in response to any loving parent's absolute worst nightmare.

MOO.

Edited to fix grammar.

ETA: Kind reminder that the G family are grieving for both Kaylee & Maddie as Maddie was considered part of their family. So SG is, in reality, trying to deal with two daughters having been slaughtered in their sleep.

 

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[nightowl2728]

I agree with whoever posted in the last thread that this sort of killing/escape would seemingly take some planning, including the fact that the killer didn't leave an easy trail. In my mind that points to planning, and an impulsive/drunk/stoned college kid who is angry after a party doesn't seem to fit the bill in my mind. Unless it was preplanned in the sense that the killer WAS out/with people that night but stayed relatively sober and was waiting for the victims to all return home and had premeditated the plan perhaps days before (or longer). Maybe someone on the outskirts of their circles like a young alum who was a senior when they were freshmen, but hasn't really moved on past college and has rage... or someone with a military background who was older when they went to college, etc. That said, I do feel like given the circumstances the attack was somewhat personal, but maybe not personal to the extent that it was someone they actually had regular contact with. Maybe it was personal to the killer because they felt rejected/affronted, etc. (not justifiably, I should add).
I also find it interesting that LE seems to want to retrace all the victims' steps that evening, is asking for photos, etc., which to me seems like they don't think it's a random serial killer that wasn't at least around the events of the evening. Just so confusing. And of course heartbreaking.

 

[LizWords]

Fair and I don't blame SG at all. He wants justice for his daughter. Same as any father would want. What I'm saying is that none of the other families have spoken out this vehemently about the case so either they are satisfied LE is doing everything they can, or there's another reason.

I'm saying we're focusing on the small minority here and ignoring the silent majority. Would it change anyone's mind if say MM's Dad gave an interview and praised LE and said the communication has met his expectations? What I'm getting at is we're taking one set of statements from one family member when there are many and applying blanket logic.

I know, he's the only one talking and has provided more info to the public than LE has, although not in the most constructive way. I don't think any of the other family members have much more info than SG. And if any of them came forward and said LE is doing a great job, I would want examples of why it's great to stop questioning how well they're truly doing.

Even the bit LE released yesterday about wanting more info on X and E's activities that night is not worded in a way that makes me feel more confident in their abilities. In fact, it made me question them more.

 

[Birmingplumb]

I agree with whoever posted in the last thread that this sort of killing/escape would seemingly take some planning, including the fact that the killer didn't leave an easy trail. In my mind that points to planning, and an impulsive/drunk/stoned college kid who is angry after a party doesn't seem to fit the bill in my mind. Unless it was preplanned in the sense that the killer WAS out/with people that night but stayed relatively sober and was waiting for the victims to all return home and had premeditated the plan perhaps days before (or longer). Maybe someone on the outskirts of their circles like a young alum who was a senior when they were freshman, but hasn't really moved on past college and has rage... or someone with a military background who was older when they went to college, etc. That said, I do feel like given the circumstances the attack was somewhat personal, but maybe not personal to the extent that it was someone they actually had regular contact with.
I also find it interesting that LE seems to want to retrace all the victims' steps that evening, is asking for photos, etc., which to me seems like they don't think it's a random serial killer that wasn't at least around the events of the evening. Just so confusing. And of course heartbreaking.

Le retracing could also be interpreted as HAVING evidence pointing to some local?