ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[techette]

Police were called to drunken disorder outside nearby, I do believe. During potential time frame.

Is there a source link? The thread is moving fast and I can't find it. Tia!

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

It's up to the police what they share. Usually depending on the department, they welcome the help from the PI. However, it might not be the case in this scenario.

Great point. It’s entirely up to the LE officials in charge of the investigation. Just as the Goldman and the Brown family begged for information. In these types of homicides, LE tends to keep details close to the vest, and inside the thin blue line.

 

[Helechawagirl]

What? Is this bad journalism or now being released about the timeline? So midnight call to dad was a frat house now and not staying in watching a movie. So confusing...

Could have been both. E lived at the frat house so may have been in his room watching a movie. JMO

 

[shaaluv3]

JMO
Maybe it was someone welcomed into the home that night? Maybe an argument ensued and after everyone passed out , the perp went haywire .

 

[Normamsmiley]

The odds establishing a relationship (or even a brief encounter) with someone capable of brutally slashing FOUR people to death is staggering. It appears to be the exact opposite. Someone with these traits actively SOUGHT OUT these victims based on OPPORTUNITY alone. So we have a MASS-and or- SERIAL KILLER in this situation. MO

Sure, if youre assuming that the goal was to kill all 4. I have a hard time wrestling with that - particularly with the info from BE that Ks wounds were more substantially more brutal than Ms.

I tend to think the goal was to kill K and it ended up being 4. Time will tell (I hope)

 

[CSIDreamer]

She could just be an introvert!

Something like that lol.

 

[docfishbone28]

Maybe law enforcement doesnt have concrete evidence. Clearing these people publically may give them a sense of confidence and they may slip up. I'm sure all presumed suspects are being followed. They dont have a murder weapon. Killer will likely retrieve or despose of weapon if they feel they are not being looked at. Can t go to trail without the weapon

 

[10ofRods]

I came across this small article from Nov 13 on the Pullman Radio (KQQQ) website and am linking it here because it has three photos of the house. All are from slightly different perspectives than I've seen before. For example, one shows the house as well as road in front AND the stairs leading up the hill from across the street. Another shows LE speaking with residents of house next door and clearly shows the camera beside their entry door faces AWAY from the house where the murders occurred.

Homicide Investigation In Moscow Near UI Campus

The Moscow Police Department is conducting a homicide investigation at an apartment near the University of Idaho. Police initially responded to a report of an unconscious person at a unit on King R…

pullmanradio.com

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Excellent photos, thank you so much Diddian. Nice to have something new and relevant to ponder.

None of the four victims showed any signs that night of perceived intensifying danger or rapidly rising risk that we know of. And from all reports made public I assume that none of the victims perceived a fear stimulus moving rapidly towards themselves. The observation is that this was an ambush attack. Danger was closer and more immediate than the victims thought.

I think this is a crucial clue. Whether or not there was a stalker or a weirdo peripheral acquaintance, none of them thought that person was a real threat - either at all, or that night. Probably not at all. I mean, many of us have had stalkers but it would have to get really serious (such as following us home from work or whatever) for most of us to get really scared.

It could be a stranger or near-stranger. It was an ambush. I believe it was one person. If the wounds were chest and torso, I still believe the person could be of either sex but likely male, and of almost any size. Likely roughly student-aged, so unnoticeable that night or any night, if he was frequently in the neighborhood. I am guessing a loner.

A loner with a hunting knife. Superficially friendly and a "nice guy."

 

[LizWords]

I do think it's interesting that there still seems to be a "reported public" gap in their timeline.

It's hard for me to believe that with all of the potential sources available (eye witness/electronic/etc.) that the police don't have a pretty accurate accounting of where the couple was during those hours.

And with respect to eye witnesses (and what I'd presume would be a fair amount for at least some of the 9PM - 1:45AM time period), even with police requesting people to be quiet, it's hard for me to believe that there haven't been some specific (think friend of a friend) details to emerge and be reported on by the media.

Yes, I agree. Up until today, I looked at the headlines and online sleuthing that was questioning the unknowns in X & E's timeline, and figured the police did have a pretty good idea of where they were, when they were there, and what they were doing, at least in a general sense if not specifically, and just hadn't shared those details with the public. It also didn't really seem to be a point of specific focus before today. Not that they didn't want info on it, it just wasn't really publicly prioritized like it is now, which led me to believe they either 1. had a decent amount of info and/or 2. didn't think X & E were the likely targets for whatever reasons.

After reading LE's direct statements about the need to nail down the specifics of the X & E timeline, it seems to me that they don't have nearly as much info as I thought they did about X & E.

Over the last few days, the walk-back/modifying of the potential victim targeting statements, and SG's reactions to those revisions by LE, it's slowly started to click for me. I really do think LE initially believed it was far more targeted, and not to general house, but to a specific girl(s). That is what they seemed to imply in their first week or so of pressers, where they spoke with more decision. And it's certainly what SG thinks LE led him to believe as well. I think when the mayor confidently stated it was targeted etc, then to be publicly corrected by LE, and then to shortly thereafter have LE qualify what sort of "targeting" is now on the table, the mayor reiterated what was a strong theory at the beginning.

The mayor should absolutely not have said anything of the sort before discussing the progress of the investigation and also making sure his statements were strategically aligned with the sort of info LE wanted to convey. At the time, I chalked up the mayor's statements as political hubris and didn't think much about it. I've worked with plenty of small-town political bureaucracies, and they are not fun, there are a lot of egos involved, political power struggles, and political grandstanding. But now I think the mayor may have been, kind of like SG, led to believe that the person-specific targeting theory was pretty solid (mentioned this before, but will say it one more time. as in the debbie collier case, i understand why LE truly believed it was targeted, and why they felt comfortable making pretty definitive statements that ended up being inaccurate after investigation. i'm not blaming them for believing certain evidence was indicative, just pointing out that things can appear one way, but there can be a myriad alternative explanations for what seems obvious initially).

So when the mayor repeats what he thinks is a fairly solid info (again, he shouldn't have done this without talking to LE and his administration first), LE has to say "wait hold up, no evidence it was targeted. but wait again, the house may have been targeted." Basically when the Mayor started the conflicting targeted statements whirlwind that seems to have pushed SG over the edge, LE was just finishing up a lot of more in depth review of info and expertise that made specific targeting less likely than they initially thought.

Wow, so yeah that was super convoluted. Sorry, it was rambling but i'm not going to bother trying to straighten up the flow. I'm basically saying I think they really did think K was targeted for legitimate reasons, but after three weeks and a whole lot of evidence later, they think it's less likely and they need more info on E & X to try to determine if there's any tangible connection to a potential suspect.

I think this is not going to be resolved in the near future. I think this is going to pan out more like the Delphi investigation, where it takes years and a ton of extensive digging and lead chasing to find the killer...

 

[Sunny Day]

Hopefully LE checked with hospitals, ERs, and Urgent Care facilities in the area to see if anyone presented with cuts, or other injuries requiring stitches, etc.

 

[shaaluv3]

Maybe law enforcement doesnt have concrete evidence. Clearing these people publically may give them a sense of confidence and they may slip up. I'm sure all presumed suspects are being followed. They dont have a murder weapon. Killer will likely retrieve or despose of weapon if they feel they are not being looked at. Can t go to trail without the weapon

I agree

 

[Balthazar]

Is there a source link? The thread is moving fast and I can't find it. Tia!

It was on Band Field. The police report is shown here but you will have to scroll down a bit to find it: Moscow Police to Remove Victims' Personal Belongings from Residence to be Returned to Families on Wednesday, Ask Public and Media to be Respectful of Process

 

[docfishbone28]

LE knows who the target was, they know who was killed first. Killer wouldve transfered blood from one room to the other. Am i right?

 

[shaaluv3]

LE knows who the target was, they know who was killed first. Killer wouldve transfered blood from one room to the other. Am i right?

Indeed

 

[DizzyB]

As to insurance, and claims, as Emerald stated, everyone will be put on notice. General liability, excess, property for the damage and assuming loss of rents up to the policy limit. Property management company, property owner, I assume the college may even get sued. The thing is, even if one of the insurers does not ultimately have to pay the claim, the cost of defending against can be astronomical. Day job also, not claims related. But claims affect everything.

 

[10ofRods]

Also, the town or a bank could acquire the property which would take care of the owner, paving the way for the house to be razed. Went looking for this article regarding the Sandy Hook monster's home. May give some perspective: Newtown Weighs What to Do With Adam Lanza’s Home (Published 2014)

A bit different, since it was the killer's home. Nancy Lanza gave the property to the town as she didn't want it any more.

No bank (they have boards and shareholders) bought the property from Lanza. The town put money into a memorial, though. The town paid for demolition after Lanza deeded it to them (again, for free, IIRC). No memorial was built on that site, but instead, in a wooded, lovely place near the school.

Her father said they communicated around midnight and he said she told him they were watching a movie. The police are still asking for info on her and E's whereabouts from 9 to 1:45, and they have not corroborated the father's story. That means she might not have been home at midnight watching a movie.

Source?

 

[isabella88]

A bit different, since it was the killer's home. Nancy Lanza gave the property to the town as she didn't want it any more.

No bank (they have boards and shareholders) bought the property from Lanza. The town put money into a memorial, though. The town paid for demolition after Lanza deeded it to them (again, for free, IIRC). No memorial was built on that site, but instead, in a wooded, lovely place near the school.


Source?

Oh, I totally understand it is different in many ways. But Nancy Lanza was murdered. She personally made no decision on ownership of the property after the crimes.

 

[Colorado303]

Oh boy, the property mgmnt company could be in hot water after reports the driveway door didn't code correctly.

Only if a tenant reported it wasn’t working properly. Assuming of course it wasn’t coding properly. I don’t think we know that either.

 

[SteveP]

The property is owned by the university?

Could it be a neighbouring tenant disgruntled by loud music, or had a psychotic attack etc? IMOO

I have seen nothing to indicate that the house is owned by the university. Someone here found that it is owned by an out-of-state LLC, who also owns a few more in the immediate vicinity, and rental is handled by a property management company. JMO

 

[techette]

There's a five hour gap in their timeline that is concerning because no one has come forward to provide information.

MOO but I have always kind of thought they were likely having alone time as a couple which would explain why no one would come forward with information. I would think cell phone pings could at least provide some rough location.