ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 53

[YepperBepper]

Those are standard questions at arraignments. if someone has severe mental illness or is on medications that effect judgment it goes to their competency to agree to things at that hearing, for example signing an agreement to be extradited or to make an initial plea. Some of utterly crazy people will say their mental health is fine, and some s of perfectly sane people will say it is not, based on their interest of outcomes from that hearing.

Yes. Very true. Agree

My post was in response to an assumed diagnosis of OCD. I don't think we've seen anything confirming that and he testified that he has no issues, so that remains up in the air (at least for now). Imho

 

[10ofRods]

I am not trying to make this thread about me but I do want to offer an explanation as to why DM may not have called 911.

When hubby and I were in college we lived in west Tulsa to be closer to TU. One weekend my older brother and wife came to visit, so my SIL and I decided to cook dinner. I didn't have everything we needed so she and I climbed into her car to go to the grocery store in Town West shopping center. We got out, did our shopping, me checking out first as I had fewer items. I came strolling out, holding my purse and bag of food items, thinking about dinner.

A man stepped out of a van and walked straight toward me. I thought nothing of it. Suddenly he grabbed me in what we call a bear hug, pinning both my arms to my side. I literally could not raise my arms to fight, could not get away. I was completely shocked, unable to process what was happening or try to get away.

At that time my SIL walked up behind me and asked "What's going on?" The guy immediately dropped his arms and said "Oh I thought you were someone else. Sorry." He turned and walked away, got into his van and left. My SIL asked me "Who was that?" I told her I had no idea, I had never seen him before in my life. We went home, told our hubby's about it, decided it really was just a case of mistaken identity. We laughed it off and did not call police and report it.

Exactly one week later, a local radio newswoman, Valerie Shaw, while shopping for diapers disappeared from Town West shopping center at the exact same grocery store parking lot. They found her raped and strangled to death miles away in Rogers County. The killer went on to kill four more people before he was caught and executed. My SIL and I instantly recognized him as the man who grabbed me that evening. Except for my having slightly darker skin Valerie and I could have been sisters. I have been haunted since 1984 by the question, if I had called the police and reported it would Valerie still be alive?

So I can personally speak to why DM did not call 911. First you are in shock, then later in denial. You just don't ever think something bad is going to happen to you or has happened. Especially when you are young.

But believe me I never walked out of anywhere with my head in my butt again. To this day I check my surroundings before I step out of a car or a building and if someone approaches me I don't let them get close to me, I give them a wide berth.

DM has a long way to go and a lot of guilt and a lot of "what if's" questions to work through before she ever gets through what happened. She will never get over it but she will hopefully, with therapy, get through it.

My prayers for her.

JMO

A wonderful post, IMO, this is a great example of using personal experience to illuminate a problem that we're all struggling to understand.

Thank you.

 

[mynoyb]

Would KOA campgrounds be open in the wintertime?

Depends on the campground. Most in the south are, but I've been to the one in Boise, ID and it has many long term residents so the campground is open. There is one outside of Pullman and it appears to be open.

 

[mickey2942]

They are going to want to know if she had anything to drink, if she has ANY history of ANY drug use, if she had anyone else in the room. What exactly was she doing just prior to hearing something that made her open the door? Was her response different than any other night? Approximately how many men whose identities were unknown to her had been through the house in the last 6 months? What was her comfort level with that? Was it ever discussed as a household? Is she able to describe people in general? Can we test this? And on and on... Being a witness is rough.

As a home visiting nurse, I was subpoenad as a witness in custody battles and domestic violence cases and found it some of the most stressful moments of my career, even more than going into some of the more violent homes I visited. My colleagues often said they felt similarly.

I feel for DM

Thank you. I think that anyone who has been to court, sympathizes with the victims in this case, that includes the ones alive, who will probably be dragged through the muck during this process.

 

[ktm44]

Thanks for correction Court Tv said on nightstand then corrected and said next to M. I assumed the floor. Either way, she could have ripped it off while struggling

If he were wearing the sheath, it would be impossible to rip it off. Knife sheaths are inteded to worn on a belt and well constructed models like this one are made with an actual loop as part of the construction and less expensive models simply have two slits in the leather to pass a belt through.

It's more reasonable to believe that he caried a concealed sheathed knife into the house and simply forgot to take it with him.

 

[sleuther123]

It’s almost as if he allowed himself a certain amount of time, and his time was up. But that doesn’t jibe with him returning to the scene the next day, which was an astounding risk.

I mean, if you’re worried about getting in and out in a certain amount of time, then why take that chance?

I doubt we’ll ever know why.

I think that he perhaps wanted to see the aftermath of his actions (ie. crime scene, police arriving etc.).

It seems a bit too late and too light (daytime) to return for his sheath or to harm the other two.

 

[YepperBepper]

Wow, this reads like a nightmare. This thread is moving so fast that have not been able to read all.N ot sure if this has been said, but I wonder if one of the reasons he came back in the morning, was that he realized he left the knife sheath and he was hoping he could go back in and retrieve it, but decided against it. MOO

My gut tells me he was enjoying the aftermath as many mass or serial killers do?

As always, I could be wrong (as I often am).

 

[fred&edna]

'Just by the wording in the PCA (below)... I am wondering if DM fell asleep in the bedroom of the middle floor but then after seeing BK she spent the rest of the evening in the lower floor bedroom??

snipped from the PCA
"D.M. stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor."

 

[dustpanhands]

If we look at only the information available to the surviving roommate, she knows only that:
1) Kaylee was with her dog.
2) A man was crying in X's room saying something along the lines of "I will help you"
3) A man with bushy eyebrows walks past her room and out the door wearing some type of mask.
She knows nothing, as far as we know, of stabs, blood, deaths, any violent crime, cell towers, DNA, cameras, Elantras, or a knife sheath. As far as she would know at that time, the man in the mask could have been the food delivery guy.

My thoughts are that possibly the roommate has not been able to remember/retrieve what she saw/heard from that night, moo, how the sudden shock of seeing the guy allowed her to freeze/survive(Thank God) Heartbreaking, but we really do not know. Trauma memories can come back slowly, not all at once. I hope she has a really good support system to help her. I guess what I am trying to say is that she may well have seen more than her mind can process at this time, again just MO.

 

[MassGuy]

I think that he perhaps wanted to see the aftermath of his actions (ie. crime scene, police arriving etc.).

It seems a bit too late and too light (daytime) to return for his sheath or to harm the other two.

Oh yeah, he was coming to see the reaction to his handiwork I think. Killers have been known to return to the scene, and even attend funerals. He wanted to enjoy this.

 

[MalloryPike]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611109357936332805

BUMP for those asking for a source about Mad Greek employees saying they didn't recognize him

 

[Vegasgrl]

we don’t know he saw her and I’m willing to guess he didn’t based on fact she’s alive.

I think he timed himself and knew approximately how long it would take police to respond if someone (anyone) called 911 during the crimes. With the planning he had to know there was that possibility.
I also think he had a plan to stash all of the evidence we are still wondering about - clothing, shoes, mask, weapon, etc. He probably practiced a lot and timed himself. He could have removed everything before getting in his car and had something to stash the evidence in. Maybe left his keys and phone in the car and a "stash" bag under the car while he committed the murders. I think he was almost completely covered up (not the eyebrows apparently), and had to strip out of everything (layers) before entering his vehicle. If that evidence is ever found it may be all together. Could have dropped it that night in a pre-planned location and never went near it again. He either left the sheath to toy with LE (wrongly thinking there was no chance of DNA, or any other connection back to him), or made a crucial mistake.
Interested to know what was found in his apartment. Wonder if he chatted with anyone about the crime?

IMO, he had a lot of interactions with police for someone with his background trying to plan the perfect crime.

 

[TL4S]

I believe there was something on that page at some point. In a previous employment life when I worked for an attorney, if a page was blank it was marked "This page intentionally left blank" to keep someone from copying information onto that blank page that was not originally in the document. That was my experience, anyway.

I can totally see this. But here there are page numbers on all the document pages except the one with nothing on it but the backward "redacted" stamp. Page 1, then blank page with no number, then Page 2 is listed on the third page of the pdf. I think that blank page would have a page number on it if something had been included. JMO.

 

[WildWest]

Where did you see was killed in the hallway?

In the PCA released today.

 

[Wsimm]

Per the affadavit

"D.M. said she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking TOWARDS her... the male walked past D.M. as she stood in a 'frozen shock phase. The male walked TOWARDS the back sliding door."

Is there something wrong with what I said, because it is completely supported by the affadavit?

This portion of the affidavit is odd! DM has opened the bedroom door, is standing in the door (I’m assuming door frame) how is it that BK is able to walk towards DM and past her and exit through the sliding glass door (which is in the kitchen area)? I’m assuming DM is standing in her doorway with the door open slightly and BK has walked past her door (that’s ajar) and continues on to exit out sliding glass door? I’m going to guess DM opened her bedroom door very quietly and NO more than a few inches and went unnoticed? The way the affidavits written she could of been standing out in the hallway and BK just walked past her??

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Check out his eyebrows in the photo he used for his PhD degree (first photo in the series of five embedded in this article):

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger's mom blasted death penalty in unearthed letters

THE mother of the suspect arrested in connection to the Idaho murders has been publicly decrying the death penalty and school shooters, letters reveal. In articles unearthed by The U.S. Sun, Maryan…

www.thesun.co.uk

Bushier still. Possible he trimmed them post-crime.

They're definitely thick, but I wouldn't consider them bushy..... then again, that would probably be hard to tell the difference when you're inside a dark room when some unknown person dressed in all black walks past you in your own home.

 

[x_files]

Seriously! I don't think I've been pulled over 4 times in my whole life. He was pulled over 4 times in the span of 4 months.

The same! BK reminds me of someone I used to know who was obsessed with his ex and would drive past her new apartment after midnight and would have excuses for his behavior. He was on the cop's radar because while stalking his ex he would drive erratically getting speeding/parking tickets near her apartment.
He admitted to driving by because he was heartbroken, but I thought it was obsessive and disturbing. He was obsessed with collecting knives and always had one with him claiming it was for self-defense. He later was caught breaking into his ex's apartment claiming he wanted to read her diary to find out why she dumped him and LE bought it and no charges were pressed. I never bought that excuse.

 

[SUNchips]

Mods - please remove if this is not allowed:
Another thought I had. I find it interesting that LE found a sheath to the knife because in one of the online discussions, the online persona had an intense discussion about the killer leaving a sheath behind at the murder scene.

Based on the information in the PCA: It seems that M was killed first (if that is where he took his knife out of the sheath). 2) K would probably have been second based on proximity. 3) X would have been third, since she was found in the hallway. I wonder if she was coming back from getting her Door Dash food. 4) E was killed 4th. I wonder if E woke up or he was killed in his sleep.

So, I wonder if M was the target and K, X and E were collateral damage?

My thoughts are similar to yours but with one slight difference. I still think K was the target, based on intuition, her dad’s comments, and a few other things that are just my own opinion. I think BK went there to either kill K or both K and M.

I also think he killed M first, especially based on the sheath. Then I think he spent the most time on who he thought would be his final victim (K). Then X either was unfortunately in the living room/kitchen area when BK came down the stairs, or she heard K and M make noises and came out of her room. She was then killed. E was likely killed last in X’s bed/room.

Edited to add: this is also the order that the charges are listed in. First was the burglary (which obviously happened first), then M, K, X, and E.

 

[Colorado303]

Watching the court appearance I found it quite odd! His demeanour was that of a man who is engaged,fascinated and interested in what was being said. He did not seem fearful, rattled or in anyway worried about proceedings

I think he’s enjoying it! I also think there’s more to be revealed yet.

Yes. That’s why I doubt there will be a plea deal. IMO this guy is looking quite forward to the trial.

 

[laust23]

thread is moving very fast so forgive me if someone already mentioned something similar.

In regards to DM not calling until hours later:

i've been in 2 different situations where i've been woken up at night in emergency situations. I went up and handled or went to see what was going on, but since i was woken so abruptly during the night i was in a weird awake-but-asleep state. I processed everything that went down but not in that particular moment, if that makes sense. I was there, but no emotions, no actual thought processes, just... there.

once it was solved, i walked up to bed and fell asleep immediately. That was possible without any worry since i was still in that half-asleep zombie state.

Both mornings i woke up i thought i had dreamed the whole thing and was highly convinced so until i went downstairs and talked to someone. all of sudden i remembered every detail of the night and that it was not a dream at all. felt like a light switch turned on in my head. very weird experiences.

Could be that DM went through a similar sleepwalking state.

JMO

As a person that has hypnogogic hallucinations due to hypersamnia, I can 100% a test to that...

thread is moving very fast so forgive me if someone already mentioned something similar.

In regards to DM not calling until hours later:

i've been in 2 different situations where i've been woken up at night in emergency situations. I went up and handled or went to see what was going on, but since i was woken so abruptly during the night i was in a weird awake-but-asleep state. I processed everything that went down but not in that particular moment, if that makes sense. I was there, but no emotions, no actual thought processes, just... there.

once it was solved, i walked up to bed and fell asleep immediately. That was possible without any worry since i was still in that half-asleep zombie state.

Both mornings i woke up i thought i had dreamed the whole thing and was highly convinced so until i went downstairs and talked to someone. all of sudden i remembered every detail of the night and that it was not a dream at all. felt like a light switch turned on in my head. very weird experiences.

Could be that DM went through a similar sleepwalking state.

JMO

I completely agree

thread is moving very fast so forgive me if someone already mentioned something similar.

In regards to DM not calling until hours later:

i've been in 2 different situations where i've been woken up at night in emergency situations. I went up and handled or went to see what was going on, but since i was woken so abruptly during the night i was in a weird awake-but-asleep state. I processed everything that went down but not in that particular moment, if that makes sense. I was there, but no emotions, no actual thought processes, just... there.

once it was solved, i walked up to bed and fell asleep immediately. That was possible without any worry since i was still in that half-asleep zombie state.

Both mornings i woke up i thought i had dreamed the whole thing and was highly convinced so until i went downstairs and talked to someone. all of sudden i remembered every detail of the night and that it was not a dream at all. felt like a light switch turned on in my head. very weird experiences.

Could be that DM went through a similar sleepwalking state.

JMO

I completely agree with you. As a person that experiences hypn-o-gogic hallucinations when falling asleep, or hypn-a-gogic hallucinations when waking up, I can absolutely attest to the experience of not being able to decipher what is real and what is fake in that very moment, then falling right back asleep, with a vague recollection of what happened in the morning until something jogs my memory. We don't know what state she was in when this happened and there very well may never be an explanation of why she did or didn't do something. This poor girl.