Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2

I am reading depositions. Whoooweeee! John Ray knows his stuff!!! I'd have him fight in my corner anytime!!!
Bam!!!
I do not trust him. I find it difficult to believe he is doing anything out of the kindness of his heart. We should be asking Shannan's sister what she thinks. <modsnip - no link to an approved source> There is no way Hackett acted alone if he was involved in Shannan's death. He's not the one who called her out to Oak Beach.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I do not trust him. I find it difficult to believe he is doing anything out of the kindness of his heart. We should be asking Shannan's sister what she thinks. <modsnip - no link to an approved source>. There is no way Hackett acted alone if he was involved in Shannan's death. He's not the one who called her out to Oak Beach.

I imagine Ray thinks this is good for his career, and otherwise has his own reasons for sticking this out. I think one of the reasons is it's the right thing to do for a family who was not going to get a fair shake with LE even as victims. Other reasons might be more transactional, but that is normal with professional services.

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped>



MOO
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Interestingly, Brewer did not go local. It has never been explained why he chose a worker advertising in NYC, or why Shannan (if you thinkE she made the "date," which I don't) agreed to go so far out of NYC.
Yes, and I do believe that Pak was to make a lot of money that night. There is no way he would spend that many hours and drive that far to make the small amount he claimed (I have to re-read his deposition). I believe what other posters are saying about Shannan testifying against Ruiz possibly being a factor. These sickos who hurt women definitely network and I would bet my life Pak was selling Shannan, and not just to Brewer.
 
<modsnip - quoted post was removed for RUMOR, no link>

Oak beach is weird.

This I'm sure of: Shannan was in danger that night. Pak and Hackett know more than they are saying. Brewer knows more than he is saying. Some others might know more than they are saying. And some people might be hopping in with fabrications and omissions because they are more concerned with their HOA politics than helping locate Shannan or get her justice.

As unimpressive as they are....there's all the Suffolk stuff.

It is sad how just about everyone put something-maybe a big criminal enterprise-maybe a quick buck- maybe a petty HOA conflict-maybe a department's reputation- but something always seemed to come before Shannan. It's appalling, really.

MOO
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oak beach is weird.

This I'm sure of: Shannan was in danger that night. Pak and Hackett know more than they are saying. Brewer knows more than he is saying. Some others might know more than they are saying. And some people might be hopping in with fabrications and omissions because they are more concerned with their HOA politics than helping locate Shannan or get her justice.

As unimpressive as they are....there's all the Suffolk stuff.

It is sad how just about everyone put something-maybe a big criminal enterprise-maybe a quick buck- maybe a petty HOA conflict-maybe a department's reputation- but something always seemed to come before Shannan. It's appalling, really.

MOO
Excellent summary of the entire situation. Its nice to finally discuss this twisted tragedy without being considered CT.
 
In regards to Shannon Gilberts murder on Oak Beach there was an independent autopsy performed by Dr. Michael Baden and she was strangled. He found evidence that her hyoid bone was broken which happens during strangulation or being hung. So it wasn’t drugs, or drowning that she died from.
 
Therre are hundred and hundreds of inconsistencies and contradictions by Hackett in Exibit 5 Synapsis and Anaysis.

I'm am reading late into the night -every night- the depositions. Are others involved other than Hackett, yes.

However, at this juncture in my reading depoes, Hackett has hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of inconsistencies and contradictions. No human should ever create this situation (unless they are up to their eyes in guilt).

I have more to say. But I have more to read.
 
I do not trust him. I find it difficult to believe he is doing anything out of the kindness of his heart. We should be asking Shannan's sister what she thinks. <modsnip - no link to an approved source> There is no way Hackett acted alone if he was involved in Shannan's death. He's not the one who called her out to Oak Beach.
We in society tend to evaluate people based on the concept of trust, whatever that means.

The important thing for me is if John Ray is competent at his job, and does he tell the truth?

Plus based on his tenacity in this case so far, I would say yes.
 
Last edited:
2006-2008: Shannan Gilbert, Alex Diaz and Michael Pak work for escort services run by Joseph Ruis out of NJ.
Shannan, an escort, meets both Diaz and Pak, drivers, during this time period.

2007: Shannan is arrested in a prostitution sting while working in NJ for one of Ruis' escort businesses.

2008: Hudson County PO begins a year long investigation into Ruis' businesses starting w World Class Party Girls. This investigation utilizes undercover agents, wire tapping and confidential informants. HCPO allocates a great amount of resources into this investigation and quickly discovers that Ruis' businesses spider web out into much more than one escort service. Ruis has three separate escort services, a limo service, a kebab restaurant and various other LLCs. He is laundering 3 million a year (and that is only the cash he cleans). HCPO find records of clients paying tens of thousands of dollars for single bookings. In one instance a client paid 100k. I don't care how many escorts and shish kebabs you can pile into a limo for a client, it's not going to add up to 100k.

July 2009: HCPO obtains a warrant and raids Ruis' homes and businesses.
Ruis is arrested.
He makes cash bail shortly thereafter and is released.

The charges in the case are filed:
First-degree money laundering,
N.J.S.A. 2C:21-25;

Third-degree promoting prostitution, N.J.S.A. 2C:34-1b(2);

Third-degree conspiracy to promote prostitution and distribute cocaine, N.J.S.A. 2C:5-2, N.J.S.A. 2C:34-1b(2), N.J.S.A. 2C:35-5a(1), and N.J.S.A. 2C:35-5b(1);

First-degree leading a narcotics trafficking network.

Shannan Gilbert (along with one other name I've seen in threads but have been unable to verify) is listed as Ruis' co-defendant in this case.

April 2010 - Ruis is arraigned, still free on bail.

May 2010 - Shannan Gilbert goes to Oak Beach.

June 2010 - Ruis goes to court, pleads way down to 5 years, serves 2 years and is released.

From the beginning we have been fed the narrative that Shannan Gilbert was working independently - that she was no longer involved with Ruis.

But this information is inserted into the narrative by Michael Pak, and only Michael Pak, who time after time in interviews and depositions states that both he and Shannan were working independently on a regular basis.

According to Pak, he acted only as a driver, Shannan posted her own ads using her own phones, negotiated her own client fees and paid Pak a percentage for driving her. Pak had no role other than driving. He did not know the clients and it was only Shannan who booked them.

The reality is that we do not know if Pak and Shannan were working independently and we do not know if they'd severed ties with Ruis.

We especially don't know this as it pertains to the night of Friday, April 30, 2010, when Pak claims Brewer, a man who neither he nor Shannan knew, called Shannan on her phone for an outcall 2 hours away to OB, a place neither he nor Shannan had ever been.

More according to Pak and only Pak:
he and Shannan sat in his vehicle in midtown Manhattan for hours that Friday night with no work, refreshing posts on Craigslist, with Shannan becoming increasingly upset. (Shannan's emotional disposition will become a recurring theme in Pak's accounts.)

Pak then claims Shannan had a quick outcall somewhere in the neighborhood.
Pak claims not to know where or with whom but that she walked there herself and within 20 minutes was heading back to Pak's vehicle during which time they communicated via phone.

Just as a reminder: one fact that we DO KNOW is that Joseph Ruis was free at this time, his trial was a month away and Shannan was listed as a co-defendant.

I'd be very interested to know what this 20 minute meeting was about, who it was with or if it even happened.

Phone records are objective fact.
Pak plays dumb but he is absolutely not dumb.
He knows phone records cant be argued away.
He's criminally intelligent - it's why he's always so careful in his accounts regarding location - he never crosses state lines - and how he knew that the people he was trafficking from Southeast Asia could claim religious asylum if caught.

So if he knows there will be calls that show up btwn himself and Shannan at a time he claims they were sitting for hours side by side in his vehicle, he better have a reason.

It's the same as when he knows a bunch of phone calls are going to show up in Oak Beach from his phone to Brewer (who he'd never met), Brewer to him, and him to Shannan, at a time when he was supposedly sitting outside the home of Brewer while Shannan was supposedly inside providing sexual services.
Pak comes up with a highly detailed story about CVS, playing cards, lube and a phone exchange w Shannan in which she angrily exclaims "Fine, I'll find my own way home!"

Pak's account of this exchange serves 3 purposes:

1- it implies that Shannan was emotionally off-kilter that night - a theme that Pak peppers throughout every bullsht word he vomits out of his mouth about Shannan from the start - she was highly emotional and unpredictable, she was bipolar and refused to take her medicine, she was an alcoholic and constantly sipped from a fast food soda cup which she mixed liquor into, she was a drug addict and did coke and ecstacy often, she was paranoid, she often got lost when trying to find her way out of clients' buildings - all these statements are systematically shot down by Ray in the deposition.

2 - it provides Pak with an explanation for the flurry of calls that took place btwn him and Brewer and him and Shannan while he was supposedly parked outside Brewer's residence on a routine independently booked outcall: he was calling because Shannan, in her emotional instability, told him to leave and he wanted his money.

3 - it lays down the foundation for the reasoning he will later use when he claims he left Oak Beach without Shannan: She herself told him to leave so finally he did, assuming she found her own way home.

We do not know anything that was said in those phone calls, where Brewer, Shannan or Pak were while the calls were made or what they were doing.

In the same way, Pak volunteers the fact that Shannan has this very short appointment before going out to Oak Beach.
Imo, this means that something is in the phone records that will show she was not in the vehicle with Pak at certain points; that they were calling eachother from different locations.

I think wherever Shannan went during that period of time is very important and linked to the events that occurred in OB.
Whatever that appointment was, it wasnt a sex related meeting.
If i had to guess, she was either picking up product from Ruis' people to take out to Oak Beach or meeting with law enforcement as a CI.
Or some overlapping gray area in which both are true.

If we refer to the charges laid out in the trial scheduled to begin the very next month: "conspiracy to promote prostitution and distribute cocaine" - that's one charge - it's not promoting prostitution and also distributing cocaine separately - it's conspiracy (which to me always translates to RICO) to promote prostitution as a means of moving large amounts of cocaine.
These was conspiracy and distribution charges - these were not escorts and drivers bringing eightballs as party favors.
They were moving distribution weight.

But, according to Pak, neither he nor Shannan were working for an agency, neither he nor Shannan knew Brewer and the night was just a simple outcall for sex.

In the words of my grandfather:
"Do you know what chewed up grass is?"

As an aside, it's also of interest to note that when John Ray deposes Pak for the civil case against Hackett, he asks Pak what he did after leaving Oak Beach after supposedly searching for and failing to find Shannan. Remember, Pak has rambled on for paragraphs at a time about how Shannan and he were working independently so far in this deposition. What did Pak do after he left OB early May 1 without Shannan?
He answers that he went to meet another agency driver at a Dunkin Donuts in Queens to pick up cash, he then purchased a Green Dot card and transferred that cash to the Green Dot card to send to the agency - the agency which neither he nor Shannan worked for according to him.
Ray, disappointingly, does not push this issue, I can only assume, bc it does nothing for his case against Hackett.)

To get back to the main point, Shannan Gilbert was listed as a co-defendant in a large case against Joseph Ruis, scheduled to begin the month after she went out to OB.

Ruis is indicted April 2010 (still free). Shannan goes missing May 2010.
Ruis goes to court June 2010.
Shannan is not there.
Ruis makes a deal to get a 5 year sentence, and is released after 2.

I think it is very important to understand that, regardless of Pak's attempts to manipulate the narrative, the objective inarguable truth is that Shannan Gilbert was not only involved in organized criminal activity, she died exactly one month before she was scheduled to testify as a co-defendant in a trial against a far reaching very large organized criminal enterprise.

Joseph Ruis wasn't making his money from hundred dollar outcalls and shish-kebabs.
He had clients on record for "services" for up to 100k.
That's no regular outcall.
That is using escorts and drivers to move product.

And that year long investigation that took place and led to Joseph Ruis' arrest utilized many resources... including Confidential Informants.

If you're Shannan Gilbert and you get picked up in a sting in NJ and the Prosecutor's Office comes to you and tells you your employer is at the center of an investigation that goes far beyond an escort service and you're going to face those charges with him...unless you cooperate, in which case you'll get immunity, what would you do?

If you're Joseph Ruis, out on bail, a month away from a serious case against you, and you find out one of your employees, not just any employee but the one listed as co-defendant in your case has made a deal w the State...what would you do?

Outstanding.
 
I am in agreement with you, but cannot figure out how Peter Hackett fits in to that scenario, unless the scenario Peter Hackett's involved in was a separate and coincidental set of circumstances.
Me too. Was he at that party?
Or did she run to his house?
 
I am in agreement with you, but cannot figure out how Peter Hackett fits in to that scenario, unless the scenario Peter Hackett's involved in was a separate and coincidental set of circumstances.

For that matter, how does Brewer and anyone else at his party fit into this scenario? Were they friends of Ruiz? That seems unlikely, but I guess you never know.
 
I just listened to the call in its entirety and I have to say that it lines up exactly with MP’s account. If she was murdered, by anyone who was aware of her 911 calls, why would the killer leave her body in the vicinity?
AFAIK, it is not certain she was left vs. dumped.

It is also not certain that the killer(s) were in the same vicinity of the 911 calls.

MOO
 
She didn't try to conceal it at all. She wasnt whispering. She repeated there's somebody after me 5x in a pretty normal volume with brewer there.

This sounds like someone that's in danger trying to conceal the call.

I agree that it sounds that something was going on, if I heard correctly the guy said lets go outside, suicide. Did anyone else catch that? Now it may have just sounded like that but I found that really strange and coincidental but maybe I heard wrong. Also, I recall her saying that they set her up, or they planned this. She sounded very coherent about it to me. Of course they would deny this either way since she was on the phone with dispatch. It sounds like there may be 3 men there which, if they were intending on taking her out this would also make sense, why would 3 men be there for a single call girl? When she knocked on the neighbors door she may have been in such a state of fear that she thought he may be a friend of theirs. Lastly, if the screams & struggle stopped, its possible that she got in the SUV or was forced into it & then brought back later to the place she was found in fact maybe thats how her belongings ended up in a different. If they were her friends they would have got her back into the SUV and made sure she got home safely, that’s what friends do. It’s highly unlikely that 3-4 men lost a girl who was probably almost a foot shorter than some of them. And lastly, does anyone have info on the case she was set to testify in in June of that same year?
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
75
Guests online
3,346
Total visitors
3,421

Forum statistics

Threads
593,502
Messages
17,988,224
Members
229,151
Latest member
hongwuzhiye59
Back
Top