Match! NY - Caledonia, WhtFem 1UFNY, 13-19, Turquoise Necklace, Nov'79 *Tammy Alexander*

[Roselvr]

Seeking the lost FB post about Cali May 1, 2012

Last post links to a poster here 4th paragraph - Body exhumation & specialized forensic efforts such as enamel identification, Texas A&M's pollen identification and a multitude of new technologies with DNA have still not brought identification and resolve to this case.

Someone please shove this in their face. They banned me. What idiots!

BBM - I do not see this info on Doe network's page. Does anyone know where it was?

08-26-2006, 11:43 PM

Some new info on Cali's case on the Doe Network site today -

A new tool in the investigation that's helped find some new leads. Working with the Monroe County Medical Examiner, pollen samples taken from the victim's clothing were sent to a lab in Texas. Testing determined the pollen could have come from just four places: Arizona, California, South Florida, or Mexico.
In 2005 exhumed the grave, sending some of the victims teeth to be tested. There's hope that could identify minerals found in drinking water, which in turn could further help narrow down where the victim may have been from.

There is also info about Lucas and Toole confessing to the case, as well as speculation regarding Wilder's involvement that I don't remember seeing posted there before. It's good to know it's still an active case!

Doe Network - Case File 1UFNY Dentals: Available. She has some serious decay and tooth #14 was decayed to the extent that only three roots of the tooth were left. She had not had any dental care.

New DNA Testing Sheds Some Light on 30-Year-Old Livingston County Cold Case

Breakthrough in cold case after three decades as police say POLLEN could be key to identifying mystery teenage girl shot twice in the head and dumped in field

I received some information from a trustworthy source that Cali's teeth were analyzed to determine their oxygen isotope ratios and the results from this were consistent with her growing up in the SW US and some other places in the world. (for a good overview of this analysis read here

The O2 isotope ratio technique can not be considered precise, but can be used in conjunction with other pertinent information. Consider this slideshow prepared by one of the world's leading palynologists, VM Bryant (straight out of Aggieland). The content in general is fascinating, but pay close attention to slides 34-42. Entitled "Jane Doe Murdered in Upstate NY" the slides show the process of extracting the pollen from Jane's red jacket and brown corduroy pants. Pollen clues extracted from the clothes are detailed, and Bryant's expert hypothesis on where the Casuarina originated is provided. Check it out: Cali's pollen case is detailed on pages 17- 21

That study indicates that Cali's most likely origin was Southern California near San Diego. I would probably include Orange County as well. But they also indicated that she was tanned, so that would make the beach communities of San Diego and Orange County most likely. That's a much easier task than searching the entire states of CA, AZ, and FL.

Here are the relevant slides from the presentation:

Carl's image below

 

[mjak]

I think I am really confused. There is nothing that would make me happier than Cali being identified. when I saw the link to the seeking the lost page I was so excited. I thought how fabulous that they think they have identified Cali. I was really dissappointed when I looked at the picture of Linette and I saw almost no resembalance at all. Here is where I am confused why is it making them or anyone upset if some people like me do not think it is Cali. We still have Cali unidentified and now we know of another missing women Linette. This gives up plenty of stuff to work on and use our time positivly. So I don't understand what the issue is.

mjak

 

[Roselvr]

I think I am really confused. There is nothing that would make me happier than Cali being identified. when I saw the link to the seeking the lost page I was so excited. I thought how fabulous that they think they have identified Cali. I was really dissappointed when I looked at the picture of Linette and I saw almost no resembalance at all. Here is where I am confused why is it making them or anyone upset if some people like me do not think it is Cali. We still have Cali unidentified and now we know of another missing women Linette. This gives up plenty of stuff to work on and use our time positivly. So I don't understand what the issue is.

mjak

Because we're raining on their parade. Their possible match. Makes me sick they are not taking the sister into consideration. My heart has been ripped out with what she's gone thru the last few days. Here she starts looking for her sister to be told her sister was a murder victim. She agrees with Carl about the ears; but since the detective that she spoke to thinks it may be a match she's now in limbo because he must know something that she doesn't?

The fact that they are banning some of us from commenting leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They don't believe there was isotope testing because it doesn't come up on the wiki page. All they had to do was go back to that post on their sister page & they can see they were wrong.

 

[dsntslp]

Has there been any consideration made to the fact that the clothing she had on, the corduroys, the shirt, and the jacket may have been bummed from a trucker and that explains the pollen in the clothing but she is not really from out West? That possibly whoever she bummed the clothing from was from out West? I do concede, however, that she was very short and finding a male trucker that was her size, for her to bum pants from and have them fit, would be rare. Does it say anywhere what size the pants were? I wonder if the corduroys were rolled up at the bottom or if the inseam was the correct measurement for her size.

Also, one site has the heart key chain and key listed as being a necklace and I was under the impression it was connected to a front belt loop on her pants.

Or do her teeth also show she was raised out West?

I'll go back through and try to figure it out...

Can anybody explain or expound on the above and save me some time please?
TIA

 

[CarlK90245]

The info on the isotope analysis comes from a "trustworthy source" who spoke with annemc2.

I received some information from a trustworthy source that Cali's teeth were analyzed to determine their oxygen isotope ratios and the results from this were consistent with her growing up in the SW US and some other places in the world. (for a good overview of this analysis read here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11421593)

The O2 isotope ratio technique can not be considered precise, but can be used in conjunction with other pertinent information. Consider this slideshow prepared by one of the world's leading palynologists, VM Bryant (straight out of Aggieland). The content in general is fascinating, but pay close attention to slides 34-42. Entitled "Jane Doe Murdered in Upstate NY" the slides show the process of extracting the pollen from Jane's red jacket and brown corduroy pants. Pollen clues extracted from the clothes are detailed, and Bryant's expert hypothesis on where the Casuarina originated is provided. Check it out: http://projects.nfstc.org/trace/2009/presentations/3-bryant-palynology1.pdf

I'll leave it up to you all to decide whether annemc2 is a "trustworthy source" regarding whether her source was "trustworthy".

 

[dsntslp]

I trust the source. Thank you.

I thought I had read that too, I am on a tiny netbook and it's so hard to read things or even function sometimes, lol.

Thank you again, truly.

 

[CarlK90245]

I trust the source. Thank you.

Reminds me of the Mr Ed jingle ...

"♫ ♪ ♫ Go right to the source and ask the horse. He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse ... ♪ ♫ ♪"

Anyone under 50 won't have the slightest clue of what I am talking about (LOL)

 

[mjak]

I see no reason to believe the Isotope testing is fake or inaccurate. What bothers me the most is I see on a very very slight resembalance between Cali and Linette. The type of resembalance I can only find if I am lookng for it and really break down every feature for comparison. That is not the kind of resembalance that would leed me to label this a match. In fact if I was activly looking for Cali's id and saw this picture I am not sure I would even look twice. I hope I just have bad eyesight and it is a match because it would be wonderful to send Cali home and give Linette's family answers but I just don't think so.

mjak

 

[annemc2]

I trust the source. Thank you.

I thought I had read that too, I am on a tiny netbook and it's so hard to read things or even function sometimes, lol.

Thank you again, truly.

Thanks, guys. I've been around WS for awhile and am not known for making outrageous claims. I have no idea why I was contacted by this person but I was (via pm) and was told that if I would keep the source to myself that I could have some information to share with everyone re. the pollen and isotope analyses. I absolutely believe that this person is who he/she says and knows what he/she is talking about after receiving information about his/her background and involvement with the case. And I'm not trying to be cryptic - I was honestly contacted by this person semi-randomly due to my postings on Cali's thread and thought that by getting the info out there that it would increase the chances of Cali being identified.

And I'm going to agree with Astrokitty on this one - everyone's already said what I've been thinking after reading the FB info about Linette and Cali.

 

[Roselvr]

Thanks, guys. I've been around WS for awhile and am not known for making outrageous claims. I have no idea why I was contacted by this person but I was (via pm) and was told that if I would keep the source to myself that I could have some information to share with everyone re. the pollen and isotope analyses. I absolutely believe that this person is who he/she says and knows what he/she is talking about after receiving information about his/her background and involvement with the case. And I'm not trying to be cryptic - I was honestly contacted by this person semi-randomly due to my postings on Cali's thread and thought that by getting the info out there that it would increase the chances of Cali being identified.

And I'm going to agree with Astrokitty on this one - everyone's already said what I've been thinking after reading the FB info about Linette and Cali.

What blows my mind is that there is not much in the way of "news" on the isotope testing; which was pretty advanced for the time. There is record of it on a few press releases but not much else. The way I've interpreted everything was that the findings were consistent with the pollen samples.

Are you able to contact them again to get clarification? Or to suggest they consider doing the newer isoptope testing & get more press with the results?

 

[mjak]

I posted on "Seeking the Lost" asking if Linette was known to have had dental care outside the USA. As I always recalled that as being one of the stand out things about Cali. Too my supirse "Seeking the Lost" responded that I must be thinking of another case because Cali had no dental care at all. So I went to the doe network and sure enough her page states no dental care at all. I still felt pretty sure that I had read in the past about the out of USA dental care and did find some older sites that referred to Cali as having dental care likely not of United States origin. Does anyone else recall this and if so how did this fact change. Assuming they had Cali's teeth in their possesion shouldn't the presence of dental work or no dental work be a concreate fact? I am cursious how this might have changed.

mjak

 

[annemc2]

I really don't understand it beyond the basics but apparently the O2 isotopes are used in archeology but carry little significance in forensic work?

I could try and contact this person via pm and see if they are still around and willing to check in with this thread. Looks like he/she hasn't posted in awhile. Will give it a shot - maybe the pm is linked to an email acct somewhere.

 

[Roselvr]

I really don't understand it beyond the basics but apparently the O2 isotopes are used in archeology but carry little significance in forensic work?

I could try and contact this person via pm and see if they are still around and willing to check in with this thread. Looks like he/she hasn't posted in awhile. Will give it a shot - maybe the pm is linked to an email acct somewhere.

It can help in forensic work. Look at Shotgun Jane Doe TN

Jane Doe came from 1 of the 13 southeastern U.S. states

She has not been identified yet; but they now know where to circulate her age regression photos

 

[annemc2]

It can help in forensic work. Look at Shotgun Jane Doe TN

Jane Doe came from 1 of the 13 southeastern U.S. states

She has not been identified yet; but they now know where to circulate her age regression photos

Sorry - I was reviewing the PMs from the person who told me the info and that is what he/she said about the isotope testing. I didn't make that clear in that earlier post.

To me, it would seem that it would be immensely helpful. FWIW, I did try and contact this person via pm to het him/her know that people were interested in this topic again. Hopefully they will eventually chime in.

 

[Lostindetroit]

Sorry for my last post guys, I was a bit crabby. I am glad Linette has finally been listed as a missing person. I agree there is absolutely nothing wrong with a rule out. Carl made a real good point with the ears that is also what caught my eye first, the difference in size on the bottom lobe. Anyone know where they are with a positive rule-out for Linette?

 

[CarlK90245]

Anyone know where they are with a positive rule-out for Linette?

Linette's sister just submitted her FRS this week, so it may be some time before they tell her what we already know.

 

[mjak]

Does anyone besides me remember how it use to list Cali as having had dental work likley outside of the USA? I am concerned about how she can go from having dental work to having none at all?? What if they have the wrong teeth now or some other kind of mixup?

mjak

 

[Roselvr]

Does anyone besides me remember how it use to list Cali as having had dental work likley outside of the USA? I am concerned about how she can go from having dental work to having none at all?? What if they have the wrong teeth now or some other kind of mixup?

mjak

Posting from cell wish I was home with my links because I also remember seeing it; there was a reason they were looking at missing in other countries; & IMO it was because of dental. Did you look at the press release I linked to? Also try her page on the state police site

 

[CarlK90245]

Does anyone besides me remember how it use to list Cali as having had dental work likley outside of the USA? I am concerned about how she can go from having dental work to having none at all?? What if they have the wrong teeth now or some other kind of mixup?

mjak

Cali had no dental work done. No fillings, no caps/crowns, no extractions.

Her teeth were poorly cared for. Her upper left first (i.e., forward most) molar had deteriorated such that only the roots remained, and her upper right first molar was badly deteriorated also. She had significant tartar buildup and several cavities.

 

[mjak]

Cali had no dental work done. No fillings, no caps/crowns, no extractions.

Her teeth were poorly cared for. Her upper left first (i.e., forward most) molar had deteriorated such that only the roots remained, and her upper right first molar was badly deteriorated also. She had significant tartar buildup and several cavities.

Carl this is what Doe and Namus say today. However, I have been around here a long time and back then the information on Cali reported her has having dental work likely done outside the USA. I did some reserach last night and did find an older site that referenced that fact. We spent a great deal of time following up on that leed comparing Cali to missing women outside of the USA. Roselvr, remembers it as well. I don't understand how she went from dental work to no dental work..

mjak