George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[iluvmua]

BBM

Why, why, why should Trayvon have gone straight to his father's gf's townhouse. I believe it is a free country! If he did double back, perhaps he wanted to see what his stalker was going/doing.

Because he was originally was heading there until he decided to confront George .

Why did he end up 70 yards north away from his destination if he could have been at the place he was staying well before George got off the phone with the NEN taker, Sean?

Based on the 911 call timeline: Trayvon should have made it home

http://gzdocs.com/documents/opening_graphics/timeline.jpg

 

[Boodles]

I don't expect eyewitnesses to have perfect, flawless, photographic memory recollections, (even if they believe they do).

We all perceive our surroundings, and will vary in our accounts most of the time. They were alerted by unusual circumstances and reacted. If the jury can glean some insight by considering all their viewpoints, they can hopefully come to a reasonable conclusion. But I wouldn't discount anyone's testimony in its entirety just because one element might not line up with other evidence.

There is so much evidence yet to come. We haven't even heard the ME report yet.

 

[shelley921]

But we aren't using it to kill anyone. What we say here does not affect the outcome of anything.

true and I don't want to kill anyone nor would I. I was answering a post in which someone asked why don't we examine TM's background since are examining GZ's. So I re-posted a post someone else made and I asked a question about TM's school expulsions.

 

[4Jacy]

IMO, any time someone has assaulted a law enforcement officer it is relevant.

Thank you and most definitely it is soo relevant. So are GZ's comments to NES's about "how these punks always get away." I'm sure he felt like a hero, a cop, a sheriff that night.

 

[DIBSY]

Yes, it shows that Travyon was afraid of GZ, because GZ was some crazy stranger stalking him for no good reason, other than walking while black.

Isn't that the truth! The AA people who had recently burglarized in that area were already behind bars from what was reported on here by other posters

 

[Lovelymountains]

You can't just make stuff up to fit your theory. Not one of the witnesses have said the body ended up anywhere other than where the fight was taking place. Why is it important to say GZ dragged TM's body to a different location? It's alright to make theories fit the facts, but it's not alright to make "facts" up.

I did not say that GZ dragged his "Body." I mean he forced a living TM to come with him to the spot where the ensuing altercation occurred. I meant that GZ was attempting to force TM to his vehicle to wait until LE arrived. At the location where TM was subsequently killed, TM attempted to escape and that's when GZ shot him. IMO the small scratches on GZ's head were not caused by his head being slammed against concrete. Nor was he hit in the face by TM's fists. There would be evidence of a fight on TM's body and hands had it happened as GZ describes. There is none. All of the above is IMO. I never said it was fact, but it is one explanation which fits all of the evidence as we know it. There may be others. George Zimmerman killed a young man. I do not take his explanation at face value because someone in his situation would not admit to the truth if it were not in his favor, which IMO the truth would not be.

One's opinion is not necessarily "Fact" nor did I say it was.

 

[4Jacy]

IMO, any time someone has assaulted a law enforcement officer it is relevant.

Thank you and most definitely it is soo relevant. So are GZ's comments to NES's about how "these punks always get away." I'm sure he felt like a hero, a cop, a sheriff that night.

 

[deelytful1]

I am pretty sure during the debate over whether the voice expert's testimony would be admitted (judge ruled no) - it was questioned whether they could recreate with GZ's voice. They said it could not be because you cannot on command sound the same as when you are truly in fear for your life. They have the FBI as well as private voice experts all involved in this issue.

That's really too bad because IMO that is truly the ONLY solid evidence they have as to who is being attacked and who was the antagonist (prior to the killing of course).
If I was GZ I would really push for it! I mean.. it means all the difference between being the aggressor and defending himself.
I could see where the prosecution would be stymied but I'm really surprised the defense couldn't get this in if they wanted to...
Perhaps there will be a turn of events....

 

[corundogs]

OK since 2 of you have admitted it I will too :blushing:

I actually thought it was a lame concept up until season 12, then I started watching After Dark one night and that was it. It is that hamsters in a cage thing, it is hard to look away. I am almost bummed they started it early this year, as I now have trial addiction on my schedule also!
Too many things to keep track of :scared:

And my family thinks I am goofy for watching too....you are not alone:seeya:

OK...I am going to venture out here and post this. Hope it stays.

Are you guys watching right now? It's hilarious how soon the stress and jealousy and everything has started! Pretty comical!!!

 

[iluvmua]

I did not say that GZ dragged his "Body." I mean he forced a living TM to come with him to the spot where the ensuing altercation occurred. I meant that GZ was attempting to force TM to his vehicle to wait until LE arrived. At the location where TM was subsequently killed, TM attempted to escape and that's when GZ shot him. IMO the small scratches on GZ's head were not caused by his head being slammed against concrete. Nor was he hit in the face by TM's fists. There would be evidence of a fight on TM's body and hands had it happened as GZ describes. There is none. All of the above is IMO. I never said it was fact, but it is one explanation which fits all of the evidence as we know it. There may be others. George Zimmerman killed a young man. I do not take his explanation at face value because someone in his situation would not admit to the truth if it were not in his favor, which IMO the truth would not be.

Really? That's not what the evidence shows.

No factual evidence to back that up

JMO

 

[polleypockets]

Yes, they gave his a voice stress test and he passed.

The state wants it thrown out of evidence.

http://www.wesh.com/news/central-fl...out/-/14266478/20293856/-/86gvao/-/index.html

i don't think they can get an accurate reading w/ out both voices being tested amd tm can't imo

 

[Boodles]

That's really too bad because IMO that is truly the ONLY solid evidence they have as to who is being attacked and who was the antagonist (prior to the killing of course).
If I was GZ I would really push for it! I mean.. it means all the difference between being the aggressor and defending himself.
I could see where the prosecution would be stymied but I'm really surprised the defense couldn't get this in if they wanted to...
Perhaps there will be a turn of events....

If I never hear that audio again, it will be too soon. I can't stand it. It's haunting. So heartbreaking. :tears:

 

[Colt46]

When GZ first picked up the trail of Trayvon, he must have noticed that Trayvon was talking on his cell and carrying a bag of Skittles with a can of iced tea. Does this sound like the night stalker or a cat burglar??? GZ was a trigger-happy wannabe cop - pure and simple. Since he insisted on disobeying orders to stop following TM, he should have at least identified himself as 'neighborhood watch', and the entire incident would have blown over. He could have been non-confrontational by just telling TM that there had been several burglaries over the last few weeks, and he was just doing his job. Asking a young black man 'what are you doing here' or 'where are you going' is an invitation for trouble in today's racially divided society. Sadly, I doubt that GZ has one ounce of remorse over this tragic event - he doesn't get it!

 

[Nezumi]

The defense asked and she said that she spoke english with her parents, at school, with friends, etc. Apparently her parents are multi-lingual too.

Her understanding of standard English is only hampered, imo, by her low intelligence. What she's speaking is a version of English commonly known as "ghetto slang." Combined with just not being very bright, it isn't surprising that she is hard to comprehend or that she has trouble understanding simple questions posed by the defense.

 

[polleypockets]

thank you for stating what i believe in a concise manner that makes sense

we do not know if he doubled back, that is a defense theory, according to the witness tm said he had lost gz finally, then a minute later he caught up, so there is no evidence saying the tm doubled back, its all theory - based on gz depo

 

[Lovelymountains]

You know...I am beginning to question something more.

If Trayvon was on top, wouldn't have blood come out of the wound? Gravity and all that.

I am now wondering if GZ was in fact on top, and he did position him the way he said he did...except he didn't actually pull his arms out just got his elbows out.

I mean, I would think if Trayvon was on top the blood would have come out of the wound and splattered.

But since it didn't...wouldn't it make sense he was on his back, therefore no blood comes out?

George stated he was trying to detain him after he was shot.

It's actually making more sense to me now.

George was on top as we have heard multiple witnesses state, and he stated himself. He then turned him over to "detain" him, since detaining a dead man makes so much sense, but that's beside the point.

It's not so twisted in my head now. I have no idea if this makes sense to anyone else though. LOL!!

It makes sense to me and further, I believe GZ was "Detaining him" prior to any altercation which might have occurred. IMO it was TM's effort to escape which caused GZ to shoot.

 

[m00c0w]

When GZ first picked up the trail of Trayvon, he must have noticed that Trayvon was talking on his cell and carrying a bag of Skittles with a can of iced tea. Does this sound like the night stalker or a cat burglar??? GZ was a trigger-happy wannabe cop - pure and simple. Since he insisted on disobeying orders to stop following TM, he should have at least identified himself as 'neighborhood watch', and the entire incident would have blown over. He could have been non-confrontational by just telling TM that there had been several burglaries over the last few weeks, and he was just doing his job. Asking a young black man 'what are you doing here' or 'where are you going' is an invitation for trouble in today's racially divided society. Sadly, I doubt that GZ has one ounce of remorse over this event - he doesn't get it!

His phone was on a headset; his tea and skittles were in his pocket. This is per DeeDee and the crime scene tech.

No orders were given to Zimmerman, either.

 

[DIBSY]

Just FYI, gawker is a self-proclaimed gossip site.

Just as are all other so-called news oulets....albeit the hacking was reported in other sources as well.

 

[DIBSY]

When GZ first picked up the trail of Trayvon, he must have noticed that Trayvon was talking on his cell and carrying a bag of Skittles with a can of iced tea. Does this sound like the night stalker or a cat burglar??? GZ was a trigger-happy wannabe cop - pure and simple. Since he insisted on disobeying orders to stop following TM, he should have at least identified himself as 'neighborhood watch', and the entire incident would have blown over. He could have been non-confrontational by just telling TM that there had been several burglaries over the last few weeks, and he was just doing his job. Asking a young black man 'what are you doing here' or 'where are you going' is an invitation for trouble in today's racially divided society. Sadly, I doubt that GZ has one ounce of remorse over this tragic event - he doesn't get it!

Bravo !! Very well said!!

 

[m00c0w]

You know...I am beginning to question something more.

If Trayvon was on top, wouldn't have blood come out of the wound? Gravity and all that.

I am now wondering if GZ was in fact on top, and he did position him the way he said he did...except he didn't actually pull his arms out just got his elbows out.

I mean, I would think if Trayvon was on top the blood would have come out of the wound and splattered.

But since it didn't...wouldn't it make sense he was on his back, therefore no blood comes out?

George stated he was trying to detain him after he was shot.

It's actually making more sense to me now.

George was on top as we have heard multiple witnesses state, and he stated himself. He then turned him over to "detain" him, since detaining a dead man makes so much sense, but that's beside the point.

It's not so twisted in my head now. I have no idea if this makes sense to anyone else though. LOL!!

I'll respond to this - since he was bleeding into his pleural cavity, no. That makes it likely that all of the blood was flowing into the space around his lungs (since that is first on the path the bullet took). This is why there was very little blood. That, and his heart was probably immediately stopped by the bullet (so no blood pressure), plus the two layers of clothing he had on to catch any blood that may have sprayed or been otherwise dispersed.

The pleural cavity bleeding was confirmed in the ME's report, for sourcing.